Too few gnomes & goblins: New Class Idea

[Al Gorefiend]

I don't like the idea of engineering being gutted to make 'Tinkers' feel unique.

Engineering professions
- Crafts:
- goggles
- toys
- guns
- buff items
- mounts
- pets

If anything, Engineering isn't being used to its full extent due to the shackles of game balance. Engineers should be able to craft siege weapons, WMD, bazookas, mech suits and assault aircraft. Since obviously they can't do that for a profession, make a class out of all the things engineering can't cover.

[Thimagryn]

I think your thinking is wrong. People will roll a class regardless of race as the class is 99% of the gameplay. How many people playing DH right now probably hate elves?

Secondly, you should give new things to the unpopular to boost popularity, not make the popular even more popular. In the end, people who obsess with their toons being beautiful and refuse to roll anything other than female blood elf will probably bitch about having to be a Goblin, but they'll roll one anyways.

Thirdly, do it for the lore. Dont screw up the lore of a tinker by deciding everyone gets to be one.

Fourthly, Pandaren are even less played than gnomes and goblins, but they're still the most popular race for monk.

And the fact that they are the most popular Monk race hurts their image. The class image is association to a whimsical race, and that image appeals to a niche audience. Gameplay wise, the Monk has a lot of depth. Where it hurts is in its image and its lore; a very similar parallel to what the Tinker will face.

As for gameplay driving popularity, people are driven to play a class that first looks cool to play, then they experience the gameplay and figure out if it's fun for them. First impression is much stronger to drawing people to play a class. Case in point - if faced with a decision to play a new class you've never played before, gameplay would not be high on the list of what you choose to play, because you aren't already familiar with the gameplay involved. External factors like class themes, class abilities, choice of customizations (race, gear, weapons) and all the other flashy stuff is usually the first.

When we break down how the Tinker fares in this decision making process, the use of tech and abilities is definitely a unique trait that will interest a lot of people. The exclusivity of Gnomes and Goblins, however, immediately works against this. And no, it's not comparable to the Demon Hunter at all, because Demon Hunters are well regarded as a highly valued and popular class while Tinkers are mostly recognized by the few in these forums and the few who are pro-Gnome/Goblin/Engineering. It's an incomparable niche that is not going to work in practice with the mainstream audience, as exemplified with the entire Pandaria expansion. Just because it's something many people seemingly ask for does not mean it will be popular. Demon Hunters weren't simply asked for, they are at the forefront of Warcraft's image, having been made familiar and recognizeable to the mainstream audience through Illidan.

Having them be Gnome and Goblin exclusive will be a detriment to the class and all that it could be. In similar ways, imagine if there were an expansion solely based around Gnomes and Goblins; do you believe this would make the class more popular or would it become a less-popular expansion? I defer to the latter.

The problem with popularity is you can't force something to be popular by giving it more exposure. Look at Garrosh - despite all that Blizzard tried to do to prop him up as a cool new character in Warcraft, the fans hated him, so they took a complete 180 and turned him into a villain. He wasn't a 'villain in the making', his character was written to be a champion of the Horde during Wrath. He took a complete 180 between Cata and Pandaria. If people conciously do not like something, giving us more of it will not help change that image. The second big example I'll give are Pandarens themselves. We haven't had any meaningful Pandaren-relevant story since Pandaria, and for good reason.

[Al Gorefiend]

And the fact that they are the most popular Monk class hurts the fact the Monk itself is not taken as seriously as it could be due to its association to a whimsical class. Gameplay wise, the Monk has a lot of depth. Where it hurts is in its image and its lore; a very similar parallel to what the Tinker will face.

As for gameplay driving popularity, people are driven to play a class that first looks cool to play, then they experience the gameplay and figure out if it's fun for them. First impression is much stronger to drawing people to play a class. Case in point - if faced with a decision to play a new class you've never played before, gameplay would not be high on the list of what you choose to play, because you aren't already familiar with the gameplay involved. External factors like class themes, class abilities, choice of customizations (race, gear, weapons) and all the other flashy stuff is usually the first.

When we break down how the Tinker fares in this decision making process, the use of tech and abilities is definitely a unique trait that will interest a lot of people. The exclusivity of Gnomes and Goblins, however, immediately works against this. And no, it's not comparable to the Demon Hunter at all, because Demon Hunters are well regarded as a highly valued and popular class while Tinkers are mostly recognized by the few in these forums and the few who are pro-Gnome/Goblin/Engineering. It's an incomparable niche that is not going to work in practice with the mainstream audience, as exemplified with the entire Pandaria expansion. Just because it's something many people seemingly ask for does not mean it will be popular.

I think at the end of the day, all this maybe/maybe not theorycrafting is inapplicable without a proper test trial. DH would probably be more popular if more races could be it, but at the cost of lore Blizzard decided not to and stuck it to elves. Hell, Shaman would be more popular if all races could be. Any class would be more popular if all races could be it, Tinker isn't the exception. Personally I think its popularity would do just fine if it were only gnomes and goblins.

- and, I should add. Even if it ends up being as low-played as Monk... Who cares? The people who like it will play it, and Blizzard has nothing to lose from that. Does every new class have to dethrone the Hunter to be a successful class?

[Irian]

"New"

I can see one thing wrong with this thread...

That being said, it's not the worst idea, I just don't know if Blizzard will make Tinker like that if/when they do. I think it'd be cool for a tank spec, personally, but I think players would otherwise get really sick of being in a giant mech.

Also, not goblin/gnome only unless you want the class to be unbelievably unpopular. That's a suicidal idea for a class, people were even sour with DHs and the two race options are easily some of the most popular. If they're going to do a mech class it should be extremely wide race availability. There's nothing wrong with gnome and goblin representation in WoW, if people don't want to play short ugly races then I see no reason to try to make them.

[Wildmoon]

It would be pretty awesome to be able to cuztomize your mechsuit. lol Like the class is entirely based on your mechsuit and picking talents is equivalent of cuztimozing your suit. Adding guns,boosters or shits like that. Awesome right?

[A dot Ham]

You can make a tinker class without nuking engineering tho.

I feel like engineering was nuked a long time ago and never recovered. The other professions just caught up in WoD, and then all of them were completely ignored in Legion.

I don't like the idea of engineering being gutted to make 'Tinkers' feel unique.

I don't really care for what they have done to any profession over the last two expansions. Engineering has been gutted for a long time. This is a way to bring some of that feel back.

- - - Updated - - -

*snip*
Having them be Gnome and Goblin exclusive will be a detriment to the class and all that it could be. In similar ways, imagine if there were an expansion solely based around Gnomes and Goblins; do you believe this would make the class more popular or would it become a less-popular expansion? I defer to the latter.

I get what you are saying, but you have to look at it logistically too. Things like collision.

My tauren already has to dismount most of the time to get in the door, and if I have used any sort of growth potion, etc. I have to right click it off, just to fit through some openings.

Goblin or gnome gives room to breathe. You can make the mech as big as some of the other classes without any worry of making it so big that it doesn't fit in the existing world.

Seeing a Tauren in some massive mech feels gamebreaking imo. Now I know you aren't saying open it up to every class. But I think it becomes less of what we are all picturing in our minds eye as a "Tinkerer" and devolves that image into nothing more than an Iron Man suit.

[Dispraise]

New Class Idea

Is it time for another Tinker thread again so soon?

[A dot Ham]

"New"

I can see one thing wrong with this thread...

That being said, it's not the worst idea, I just don't know if Blizzard will make Tinker like that if/when they do. I think it'd be cool for a tank spec, personally, but I think players would otherwise get really sick of being in a giant mech.

Also, not goblin/gnome only unless you want the class to be unbelievably unpopular. That's a suicidal idea for a class, people were even sour with DHs and the two race options are easily some of the most popular. If they're going to do a mech class it should be extremely wide race availability. There's nothing wrong with gnome and goblin representation in WoW, if people don't want to play short ugly races then I see no reason to try to make them.

Of the 3 new classes that we have received I don't think they ever tried to pull you away from your main to MAKE you play them. If an elf DH didn't appeal to you, you probably aren't playing it.

If a small person in a robot suit doesn't appeal, you probably aren't going to play that either. See above for reasons why other races simply wouldn't work.

[Irian]

Of the 3 new classes that we have received I don't think they ever tried to pull you away from your main to MAKE you play them. If an elf DH didn't appeal to you, you probably aren't playing it.

If a small person in a robot suit doesn't appeal, you probably aren't going to play that either. See above for reasons why other races simply wouldn't work.

The point is that a lot of people like elves, gnomes are universally disliked by a large part of the playerbase to the point of many people being unwilling to play them and goblins are one of the least played Horde races, in fact it was the least played on the Horde last census I saw. Making a class exclusive to two unpopular races is not exactly a good idea from any sort of sensible standpoint at all.

The robot suit idea doesn't require the character to be small. It would be borderline effortless to simply change the way the character sits in the suit, or do as they've done many times in the past by having the character (and mech's) size be completely irrelevant to gameplay. For example, unless it was changed in WoD, gnomes actually have larger than average mounts. It doesn't matter if it's optional, why would Blizzard put a lot of work into an otherwise cool class idea with unnecessary racial restrictions?

[draynay]

maybe they could just give tauren a unicycle wheel like gizmoduck or something

[Gracin]

Is it time for another Tinker thread again so soon?

But if we don't call it a tinkerer in the OP, is it a tinkerer? Schrodinger's Tinkerer...

[frogger237]

Chances are mech suits would end up being like the demon hunters meta something cool you get to see for a couple seconds with a long cooldown.

[Justin-Sane]

There are not too few gnomes or goblins. There are as many goblins and gnomes in the game as there are people who want to play them.

[Deleted]

Ankle Hunter?

[Paperfox]

Why do you need more gnomes? Are you making soup?

[elderu]

Look at Garrosh - despite all that Blizzard tried to do to prop him up as a cool new character in Warcraft, the fans hated him, so they took a complete 180 and turned him into a villain. He wasn't a 'villain in the making', his character was written to be a champion of the Horde during Wrath. He took a complete 180 between Cata and Pandaria. If people conciously do not like something, giving us more of it will not help change that image.

Are you kidding me? Garrosh was always extremely short tempered, Big on himself, he hated the Alliance with a burning passion, and he was just as irresponsible in Wrath. I'll refer you to the Ulduar Patch Cinematic. "You disappoint me, Garrosh." - Thrall, AND when he tries to overthrow Thrall as Warchief in the WRATH PREPATCH.

When he was appointed Warchief, he even tried suggesting that it wasn't the best idea. "I am honored Warchief. But I feel unprepared for the life of a ruler." - Garrosh. In this same little event, he even has the guts to ask why they aren't making his promotion a big deal, and why it was just 4 of them.

In Cataclysm, Garrosh was still a brat, but he was still sort of the hero that like you said, Blizzard painted him to be. Everything he did, was exactly as you should have always expected of him during Cata.

BUT THEN we have Pandaria.. Where STILL, he's the same, and is just trying to take over Pandaria for the Horde. Him and Vol'jin have had a falling out by now. I'll have you note it's not even until 5.4 that we see him start to do some shit that ain't right to the Horde overall. Why? Because he fucking dug up the HEART OF AN OLD GOD. One that still lives in the heart, and one of the biggest worst ones. NO SHIT HE GOES INSANE. So we defeat Garrosh after the rebellion and here we have it again, that quote! "You disappoint me, Garrosh." - Thrall.

Then we have him in WoD, where he literally tells Thrall again how he was totally unprepared for what Thrall was throwing back at him. I'm sorry but if you seriously think that Blizzard's writing of Garrosh was a reaction to the fanbase, you're extremely mistaken. This was all very well written, and Garrosh was one of the most interesting characters Blizzard wrote in recent years.

Maybe watch this Nobbel video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRPwR8tWw7o

The second big example I'll give are Pandarens themselves. We haven't had any meaningful Pandaren-relevant story since Pandaria, and for good reason.

Ji, I wonder why... (get it?)

Need you be reminded that immediately after Pandaria, we were being invaded on a another planet where THERE ARE NO PANDAREN? The ones that did go to Draenor were part of the Horde and Alliance, and did not have time to have awesome stories..

Jesus dude read a little bit or something.. You have great writing, so I'm just shocked.

[ItachiZaku]

Nah, terrible idea. Too close to engineering. Just stop it. When they shaved down class unique buffs and shit, the "bring the player" bullshit, they eliminated the chance of a tinker class.

[Profyrion]

Tinkering got rolled into a crafting profession. The rest of it is just used for story. It's an element of the game that was too cool to give to just one race or class. Don't expect that to change.

[Furious Spoon]

As someone who mostly plays goblins and has engineering on all of them I would love this class. I'd expect the class to have melee dps, ranged dps, and tank specs. The tinker class is what I want most in the game besides playable ogres.

[InDecisive]

Screw Dwarves. Just Gnomes and Goblins.

Can't give it to 2 Alliance races and only 1 Horde race.

Can you imagine the outrage?

With WoD it now makes quite good sense to make it open to Orcs too, so you could have 2 races for each faction, each with their own mech aesthetic.