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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesPierre View Post
    Why should a 14 year old be in a sexual relationship? You do realize that children do not have the power to make these sorts of decisions. This isn't an "it's my body it's my choice" thing. They legally have no rights, their parents do.
    And you do realise that Muslims are taught that its ok to have sex with a 9 year old right?

    Mohammed married and had sex with a 9 year old called Aisha, and announced that this is acceptable for good Muslims. Turkey is a Muslim state and therefore they have no issues with having sex with children as young as 9.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2016-08-19 at 02:35 PM.

  2. #182
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And you do realise that Muslims are taught that its ok to have sex with a 9 year old right?

    Mohammed married and had sex with a 9 year old called Aisha, and announced that this is acceptable for good Muslims. Turkey is a Muslim state and therefore they have no issues with having sex with children as young as 9.
    All you said is false.
    All of it like.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    All you said is false.
    All of it like.
    You sir ARE LYING.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

    "The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham,[11] when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina"

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    You sir ARE LYING.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

    "The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham,[11] when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina"
    That does not mean a billion plus muslims are thought Pedophilia is ok.
    Turkey is not a muslim country.

    Why are you allowed to post is beyond me. This shouldnt be a place to let your repressions go free.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
    Perhaps read your own link's material:
    Muslim authors who calculate Aisha's age based on the more detailed information available about her sister Asma estimate that she was over thirteen and perhaps between seventeen and nineteen at the time of her marriage.[28] Muhammad Niknam Arabshahi, an Iranian Islamic scholar and historian, has considered six different approaches to determining Aisha'a age and concluded that she was engaged in her late teens.[29] Using the age of Fatimah as a reference point, the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement scholar Muhammad Ali has estimated that Aisha was over ten years old at the time of marriage and over fifteen at the time of its consummation.[30]

    American historian Denise Spellberg has reviewed Islamic literature on Aisha's virginity, age at marriage and age when the marriage was consummated and speculates that Aisha's youth might have been exaggerated to exclude any doubt about her virginity.[11] Spellberg states, "Aisha's age is a major pre-occupation in Ibn Sa'd where her marriage varies between six and seven; nine seems constant as her age at the marriage's consummation." She notes one exception in Ibn Hisham's biography of the Prophet, which suggests that consummation may have occurred when Aisha was age 10, summarizing her review with the note that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity. They also suggest the variability of Aisha's age in the historical record."[11] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.
    I may not tend to agree with Djalil, but historical dates are often hard to interpret and historical writing is influenced by a number of factors. Those things hold true all over the world. While the records on Aisha are subject to debate, consider also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel...Angoul%C3%AAme
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  6. #186
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    That does not mean a billion plus muslims are thought Pedophilia is ok.
    I am glad that you admit that having sex with a 9 year old makes you a paedophile... that means you also admit that the Muslim Prophet is also a paedophile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Turkey is not a muslim country.
    Turkey is considered a Muslim country

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    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    I may not tend to agree with Djalil, but historical dates are often hard to interpret and historical writing is influenced by a number of factors. Those things hold true all over the world. While the records on Aisha are subject to debate, consider also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel...Angoul%C3%AAme
    When almost 100% of Muslim immams preach that Mohammed married and had sex with Aisha at the age of 9 it becomes almost irrelevant how historically accurate it is. The Aisha story is considered a central aspect of Mohammeds life.

    My overall point is that its not surprising that a Muslim state has no problems with lowering the age of consent so low when a major part of their teachings is that its fine to have sex with 9 year olds.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    I am glad that you admit that having sex with a 9 year old makes you a paedophile... that means you also admit that the Muslim Prophet is also a paedophile.



    Turkey is considered a Muslim country

    - - - Updated - - -



    When almost 100% of Muslim immams preach that Mohammed married and had sex with Aisha at the age of 9 it becomes almost irrelevant how historically accurate it is. The Aisha story is considered a central aspect of Mohammeds life.

    My overall point is that its not surprising that a Muslim state has no problems with lowering the age of consent so low when a major part of their teachings is that its fine to have sex with 9 year olds.
    I'm not even getting into that discussion. It's an absurd claim that has no stance.
    Turkey is not considered a muslim state.
    Turkey has made of its secularism a major point in the formation of its state.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I'm not even getting into that discussion. It's an absurd claim that has no stance.
    The reason that you do not want to engage in a civilised discussion about this is that you know fully well that this is an extremely embarresing fact regarding Islam. And that this fact sits extremely uncomfortably within Western culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Turkey has made of its secularism a major point in the formation of its state.
    I agree that Turkey is considered secular... but it is still considered a secular MUSLIM state.

    But i guess thats splitting hairs right :/

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacquesPierre View Post
    Why should a 14 year old be in a sexual relationship? You do realize that children do not have the power to make these sorts of decisions. This isn't an "it's my body it's my choice" thing. They legally have no rights, their parents do.
    Some time ago, there were slaves who legally had no rights, their owners did. Apply your logic to this... Nice, right?

    What rights 14 y/o have doesn't depend on some objective truth in the Universe, it just depends on the current system of law. Laws can be changed. Age of consent can be made, say, 2. Will you be okay with it, just because the law says it's okay?
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  10. #190
    This "age of consent" bullshit again - they should completely remove this "law" from all countries worldwide......

    ... and replace it with a more romeo and juliet like law, where age difference is the deciding factor. I have zero issues with a 14 year old and a 16 year old having a (sexual) relationship, and to anyone who disputes that - before you give me the whole "we are adults we are better suited to choose for our kids - have you never been 14 and in love yourself? and what do you propose to make sure this is enforced, put cameras in their bedrooms? We all know they will become inventive and just find ways to do it regardless, out of your sight and knowledge. Proper (sex) education needs to come back, I can tell you I never had any at highschool, let alone my parents. It has become such a taboo in western society, it's sad - porn is widespread and accepted, but kids having fun, omg, fight it with fire...

    Not to mention AoC laws are used for a lot of evil. If some parents find out and sue the poor boy/girl, he'll be a registered sex offender the rest of his life. If you say that children cannot consent, they are not mature enough to oversee the consequences of them having sex either, right?

    Battling pedophilia (and look up that word, many confuse hebephilia and pedophilia) can be done in so many ways, AoC is just the easy way out, and causes more harm then good. As for hebephilia, well I really think that is somewhat natural - I'm not against it, as long as the adult can act.. the adult, who are we to say it is wrong?

    Besides as someone above mentioned - the real pedos they will find a way and just travel somewhere else where it is in the grey area or even legal.
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    The reason that you do not want to engage in a civilised discussion about this is that you know fully well that this is an extremely embarresing fact regarding Islam. And that this fact sits extremely uncomfortably within Western culture.



    I agree that Turkey is considered secular... but it is still considered a secular MUSLIM state.

    But i guess thats splitting hairs right :/
    Ah well....


    There are really only three reasons to insist — as so many do — that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.

    There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad ‘Abd al-Malik bin Hisham’s recension of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah — The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed — 12 years before her marriage — and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.

    Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed.

    Finally, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, dead for more than 700 years, recorded in the biographical section of Miskat al-Masabih that Asma, her elder sister of 10 years, died at the age of 100, 72 years after Aisha’s wedding. This makes Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage at least 14, and at the time of her marriage’s consummation almost 20.
    So yeah.
    Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2016-08-19 at 12:42 PM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Spain is at 13, I doubt this is the straw that will break the camel's back(its already broken anmyway)
    As of 1 July 2015, Spain's age of consent is 16.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    It has become such a taboo in western society, it's sad - porn is widespread and accepted, but kids having fun, omg, fight it with fire...
    What especially makes me laugh is when people collectively complain about a nipple shown in a cutscene in a videogame, whereas they don't see the problem with protagonist butchering thousands living beings in the same game... And that's in the world in which sex is the only reason we exist, and killing is one of the main reasons we die!

    Some backwards society we live in.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  14. #194
    Deleted
    How on earth can Turkey be a SECULAR MUSLIM state?

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Ah well....

    So yeah.
    I fact that people are quick to overlook as well: western society back then wasn't any different. Kids got married at 12 and had kids at 14 just as well, makes sense too considering the average life expectancy back then was like what, 35 years?

    Religion makes no difference - the life expectancy and the lack of welfare (you needed kids to make sure they could take care of you when you grew older) were the reasons that young marriages like this happened.

    Just because nowadays society condemns this, doesn't give us the right to judge those people back in the medieval times and earlier. You can bash all religions in plenty of valid ways, but this.. well, let's not go there
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  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    This "age of consent" bullshit again - they should completely remove this "law" from all countries worldwide......

    ... and replace it with a more romeo and juliet like law, where age difference is the deciding factor. I have zero issues with a 14 year old and a 16 year old having a (sexual) relationship, and to anyone who disputes that - before you give me the whole "we are adults we are better suited to choose for our kids - have you never been 14 and in love yourself? and what do you propose to make sure this is enforced, put cameras in their bedrooms? We all know they will become inventive and just find ways to do it regardless, out of your sight and knowledge. Proper (sex) education needs to come back, I can tell you I never had any at highschool, let alone my parents. It has become such a taboo in western society, it's sad - porn is widespread and accepted, but kids having fun, omg, fight it with fire...

    Not to mention AoC laws are used for a lot of evil. If some parents find out and sue the poor boy/girl, he'll be a registered sex offender the rest of his life. If you say that children cannot consent, they are not mature enough to oversee the consequences of them having sex either, right?

    Battling pedophilia (and look up that word, many confuse hebephilia and pedophilia) can be done in so many ways, AoC is just the easy way out, and causes more harm then good. As for hebephilia, well I really think that is somewhat natural - I'm not against it, as long as the adult can act.. the adult, who are we to say it is wrong?

    Besides as someone above mentioned - the real pedos they will find a way and just travel somewhere else where it is in the grey area or even legal.
    That Romeo and Juliet thingie applies already to several countries.
    There is NO reason to scrap age of consent as it actually protects kids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    I fact that people are quick to overlook as well: western society back then wasn't any different. Kids got married at 12 and had kids at 14 just as well, makes sense too considering the average life expectancy back then was like what, 35 years?

    Religion makes no difference - the life expectancy and the lack of welfare (you needed kids to make sure they could take care of you when you grew older) were the reasons that young marriages like this happened.

    Just because nowadays society condemns this, doesn't give us the right to judge those people back in the medieval times and earlier. You can bash all religions in plenty of valid ways, but this.. well, let's not go there
    Oh yeah absolutely. I find the practice of "judging actions of the past with the moral outlook of today" very dishonest.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyv3r View Post
    Yet, i'm sure most of them start doing it earlier.
    Breaking the law though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    How on earth can Turkey be a SECULAR MUSLIM state?
    Is there such a thing as a true secular muslim state now?
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
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  18. #198
    Turkey did NOT lower the age of consent to 12. It's false news.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    My overall point is that its not surprising that a Muslim state has no problems with lowering the age of consent so low when a major part of their teachings is that its fine to have sex with 9 year olds.
    Except that they have no intention of lowering the age of consent in Turkey to below what it is at present - 18.

    The article linked by the OP is rather misleading as to what actually this is all about, but basically the law that was changed is intended to help make crimes against very young children subject to harsher penalties. However some people are worried that this might create a(n unintended) legal loophole for child rapists to exploit.

    What the article relies on is peoples' prejudices and biases to get them to jump to the wrong conclusion.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Breaking the law though.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Is there such a thing as a true secular muslim state now?
    Well... considering baathism does not allow religion in politics, and Turkey has been a secular country (and quiet proud of it) since its modern form took shape... I don't think so.
    Especially because "secular muslim state" really doesn't male sense as a statement I think?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by uxzuigal View Post
    Turkey did NOT lower the age of consent to 12. It's false news.
    Lol and then there's that too.

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