Monks could really use some utility in PvE.

[meob]

Windwalking has a 10y range, it's useful in theory only. It will cover 10 of the 25-30y to the edge for some melees and do nothing for ranged, to stick to that xhul example.

[Deleted]

Legsweep is a huge utility for 5 mans when the mobs have enrage or bolster.

[Babylonius]

Windwalking has a 10y range, it's useful in theory only. It will cover 10 of the 25-30y to the edge for some melees and do nothing for ranged, to stick to that xhul example.

So you're saying that movement speed isn't useful in practice for melee and tanks only in theory? The buff lasts for 10s after leaving the 10y range, so its not quite the same as just 10y range.

A fight like Xhul is a great example where you have to avoid void zones, run out to drop fire and avoid the fire constantly throughout the fight, not just at set intervals where a cooldown like Roar would benefit. The 10s buff of the movement speed would allow you get out of fire and void zones, or out to drop fire and back into the fight 10-25% faster, thats a pretty big deal.

[Deleted]

Thrillax in Nighthold is a perfect fight where the movement speed is gonna matter. Avoiding patches, eating cakes and avoid the beam.
Chronomatic Anomaly yet an other fight where the movement speed is gonna matter.

There is also a couple of fights where there is roots to break and we happend to have rotebreaker in out talent tree.

[Deleted]

Windwalking has a 10y range, it's useful in theory only. It will cover 10 of the 25-30y to the edge for some melees and do nothing for ranged, to stick to that xhul example.

It would be the case, if the aura wouldn't linger for a few seconds after people run out of the range. As said in my post, the use is very limited, due to most classes having their own tools which most likely don't stack with windwalking, and the use of roar sometimes. But for the other times, your DK or (if getting it multiple times) Paladin are sure thankful for 25% more movement speed. But that's not the case where our utility shines. It does when constant movement and dodging stuff on the ground is needed. Most classes can't constantly use their own movement speed abilities due to the CD. Hard to quantify, but it sure helps reducing damage incoming due to people being faster out of the bad stuff. And, since we're at Xhul, Tiger's Lust can help people too to get out / back there.
And that's what a utility should be, in my opinion: Good in some cases, though not so OP that you NEED it in your raid for the specific boss, and bad in other cases, though not completely useless. This also allows to switch the legendary out for another when you think it is not needed (if they're available to you). Sadly, some stuff that falls under utility is too strong, they should be brought down a notch - e.g. cloak / cheat death which allow to sometimes ignore whole mechanics of a fight (Xhul). No idea if the second is still in the game, though, but cloak definitely is, and even with the increased CD to 90 seconds it's extremely powerful.

[e] On a sidenote, yes, the range should be increased by a little.

[Keiyra]

[e] On a sidenote, yes, the range should be increased by a little.

Sadly not likely. Totem is 10 yards and Roar is now only 10 yards (the glyph putting it to 30 yards has been removed).

Doesn't seem like blizz wants any bigger move speed bursts/auras

[Statix]

March of the Legion

Wait, let me get this straight:

Monks already have (not sure if all specs have access to all of these, regardless, WW does) Roll, Tiger's Lust, Flying Serpent Kick and a passive 10% movement speed increase.
Death Knights have Wraith Walk, oh, and Death Grip, that still doesn't allow us to pull ourselves to mobs immune to the pull effect.

So, now you're telling me there will be a legendary ring that will give Monks a passive 25% movement speed increase, but Unholy Death Knights cannot have a 15% passive movement speed increase? Frost and Blood didn't even have anything, but won't get anything either, because Frost should be slow but unstoppable blablabla. Where Blood and Unholy can improve Wraith Walk, by increasing the duration and increasing the movement speed respectively, Frost can't even do that; it only slows shit around you. Oh yea, great, a lot of good that'll do me on bossfights or when doing a corpse run...

Death Knights feel like turtles compared to Monks, and pretty much any other class. My Monk is basically Usain Bolt and instead of giving the turtle some upgrades, Blizzard is giving Usain Bolt the Speedforce. Dafuq is this absolute bullshit. Let's give more mobility to one of the most mobile classes in the game! And let's take away mobility from an already highly immobile class!

[worcester]

As a healer, windwalking is noticable even at 10% for those stack->heal->spread mechanics. 25% is going to be actually insane and it likely won't ever be nerfed since its value is intangible and on one of the rarest melee specs. Any slow class that hangs about in melee would benefit so much from this, especially holy paladins. And pretty much every end boss ever has required tons of whole raid running together marathons.

[Deleted]

So, now you're telling me there will be a legendary ring that will give Monks a passive 25% movement speed increase, but Unholy Death Knights cannot have a 15% passive movement speed increase?

No, we're telling you that we give that to everyone in a radius of 10m around us, not just ourself. So don't complain and hail your new WW overlords, so we'll stay near you and make you faster.

[Babylonius]

No, we're telling you that we give that to everyone in a radius of 10m around us, not just ourself. So don't complain and hail your new WW overlords, so we'll stay near you and make you faster.

Yes, WW isn't a pain in your side, its your new best friend. Start convincing your raid leader to make sure you have one at all times.

[Saverem]

Less utility than Demon Hunters?

DHs have Sigils. AoE grip/snare, AoE Silence, AoE CC. They also have one of the best tanking utilities in the game that a lot of people seem to miss. Netherbond talent, which is esentially a 2 person Spirit link totem that lasts for 15s.

- - - Updated - - -

Well we would probably still use it for ourselves so it doesnt matter much Kappa.

Can make it buff yourself in some way when you use it on someone else like Innervate does.

[oopskitty]

I really do wish BrM had more raid utility- yes leg sweep and statue are nice for 5 mans but from the little raid testing of Nightmare it seems most of the adds fixate on players making statue seem useless whereas mass grip is pretty substatial. Yes, stun still works as far as I know but on fights like Il'gynoth, having adds be funneled into a certain area is important. It would have been nice to have these mobs have a threat table instead of fixating and would have made statue a viable choice. Paladins got a nice raid defensive CD, druids have movement speed with roar, DHs have sigls, stuns and co-tank utility, and warriors have a passive raid wide healing- seems like BrM is missing out on this in my opinion. I'm certainly not saying BrM is a detriment to bring to a raid, just wish we had a little more oomph in our toolkit.

Like someone mentioned- the PVP talent which is similar to the old Avert Harm would have been a cool raidwide for brewmasters to have. Would have fit the tanking fantasy without being overly OP. Hopefully at some point in this expansion or the next our raid utility will get looked at

[Solemnity]

Wait, let me get this straight:

Monks already have (not sure if all specs have access to all of these, regardless, WW does) Roll, Tiger's Lust, Flying Serpent Kick and a passive 10% movement speed increase.
Death Knights have Wraith Walk, oh, and Death Grip, that still doesn't allow us to pull ourselves to mobs immune to the pull effect.

So, now you're telling me there will be a legendary ring that will give Monks a passive 25% movement speed increase, but Unholy Death Knights cannot have a 15% passive movement speed increase? Frost and Blood didn't even have anything, but won't get anything either, because Frost should be slow but unstoppable blablabla. Where Blood and Unholy can improve Wraith Walk, by increasing the duration and increasing the movement speed respectively, Frost can't even do that; it only slows shit around you. Oh yea, great, a lot of good that'll do me on bossfights or when doing a corpse run...

Death Knights feel like turtles compared to Monks, and pretty much any other class. My Monk is basically Usain Bolt and instead of giving the turtle some upgrades, Blizzard is giving Usain Bolt the Speedforce. Dafuq is this absolute bullshit. Let's give more mobility to one of the most mobile classes in the game! And let's take away mobility from an already highly immobile class!

So because you picked to play a plate wearing class you want to move as fast as a leather wearer? Every class has their own niche now. Warlocks have no mobility, but are practically cloth wearing tanks. I think Roll, and I guess Fel Rush, are at the apex of mobility 'utility' because of how little effort they take to fix positioning. It's efficient to just roll in some cardinal direction then resume what you're doing, other classes may have to pop their equivalent to Tiger's Lust. Those who don't have that have higher surviability, burst capabilities (saving damage for proper positioning), et cetera.

It's even more cut and dry in PvP. If you move really fast you do less face value damage, slow and it's a lot, and the intermediate spectrum.

[madmossy]

This thread has the false premise of Tanks being required to have good utility.

They are not. Being Tank makes you a valuable asset on its own merit. Most of the time Raids are missing Tanks and take anyone, even two of the same class.

I agree being the tank is its own merit, but in that same sentence, why would you take a tank that offers nothing extra over one that offers a lot more?

As it stands on beta currently, all tanks are viable for all content, but the majority of beta players are all saying the same thing. Druids/Warriors/Paladins/DK/DH just offer way more in terms of utility than Monks do. Even some of the more popular streamers are all saying BM Monks will be the "least" played tank class because they just aren't on par with the rest.

[Ezyah]

WW never had any raid utility beside a subpar rogue soak ability that is now gone. This is part of the reason they always struggle to fit in a Mythic roster and will struggle even more now that DH is a thing (doing everything they can better and making the leather melee spot even more crowded) and their soaking is gone. They also had a niche in cleave with the clones which is no more.

I LOVED playing my windwalker for 2 expansions and would have carried on if i could but, i'll leave the boat for Legion as i'll jump in something where i wont have to constantly argue to get a raid spot with my fellows enhancement, ferals, etc ...

[Deleted]

Touch of Karma can soak quite a few mechanics unless it has that massive damage clause on it as well. Legendary back makes the karma quite strong with 150% scaling of your hp instead of 50%.

[Emerya]

Touch of Karma can soak quite a few mechanics unless it has that massive damage clause on it as well. Legendary back makes the karma quite strong with 150% scaling of your hp instead of 50%.

Is it not actually 200%?

"Equip: The amount of damage that Touch of Karma can redirect is increased by 150% of your maximum health."

[Deleted]

Is it not actually 200%?

"Equip: The amount of damage that Touch of Karma can redirect is increased by 150% of your maximum health."

Its your hp*1.50 instead of HP*0.5.

[Megabloks]

Its your hp*1.50 instead of HP*0.5.

No, it is hp*2.0.

[Mnesymne]

Yep its 200% Hp, else it would have said increased to 150%