LEGION Tier only drops as items and not Tokens accordign to gamescom Q&A

[Skarzog]

Blizzard seems to have a talent for finding problems that don't exist. There was zero discussion on the vanq/conq/prot system for tier, no one cared, it was fine. All of a sudden, its a major issue. Why?

What is the purpose of this change? What is it supposed to accomplish?

It has zero impact on pugs and personal loot users. Loot is already distributed to players on a class basis using that system.

This change almost singularly impacts organized raiders, people willing to deal with loot distribution themselves. The only thing this change accomplishes for that group is to make tier ridiculously RNG.

Look at how other gear is divided into usability. Most armor pieces are divided up into 4 sets, cloth, leather, mail, and plate. Most trinkets are divided into 5 sets, agi dps, str dps, int dps, heals, and tanking.

This new system will divide up tier into 12 sets. It will result in immense RNG. The vanq/conq/prot system was created to solve that problem in the first place, now they want to re-introduce it? Why?

Personal loot is already designed to provide more loot/person in a 20 man setting. With this change, it seems like Blizzard is trying to drive a nail in the coffin for organized raiding and player controlled loot distribution. And if that is the case, just remove master looting from the game and stop dicking around with people.

[Dybia]

The issue comes about when your - for example - 2 warlocks have full tier and a Warlock tier piece drops. It becomes a literally useless item.

So the potential problem down the line you're talking about is that 3 or 4 months in when people are completely geared on their current tier they might start getting redundant loot drops? My god the horror. My guild's one rogue will have to cry himself to sleep on his bed made of all the agility daggers, swords, and fist weapons he got from HFC Heroic/Mythic.

[App]

So the potential problem down the line you're talking about is that 3 or 4 months in when people are completely geared on their current tier they might start getting redundant loot drops? My god the horror. My guild's one rogue will have to cry himself to sleep on his bed made of all the agility daggers, swords, and fist weapons he got from HFC Heroic/Mythic.

No - I mean when you're trying to first kill bosses on Mythic. What happens when some of your DPS just can't get 4pc due to redundant drops? It's a trash loot system.

[Krazzorx]

Again, has this been confirmed anywhere? I've suspected it was going to be like that due to lack of tier tokens in database but I haven't seen Internet/Twitter explode yet. Which I would assume it would if it was mentioned in recent interview

[grexly75]

The issue comes about when your - for example - 2 warlocks have full tier and a Warlock tier piece drops. It becomes a literally useless item.

Its not like this happens with the current token system, with one big problem if you had a particular token drop that no one could use because you had none of that class in the raid you were even more screwed because you could not open it to even vendor the item..

[Holdodlig]

People wanted vanilla right ? That's how it used to work back in T1 and T2 now deal with your nostalgia.

[App]

Its not like this happens with the current token system, with one big problem if you had a particular token drop that no one could use because you had none of that class in the raid you were even more screwed because you could not open it to even vendor the item..

No guild in their right mind would go without at least 1 class on each token.

[troqu]

No - I mean when you're trying to first kill bosses on Mythic. What happens when some of your DPS just can't get 4pc due to redundant drops? It's a trash loot system.

That's no different than having nothing but conqueror leg tokens drop for a month (happened to my guild when we had 0 warlocks/priests and 1 paladin in our 10 man). RNG is RNG so freaking out over it is pointless.

Also like others I'd like to see this confirmed by Blizz myself. A guy on reddit claiming he saw it in a Q&A doesn't hold weight to me.

[precious]

No - I mean when you're trying to first kill bosses on Mythic. What happens when some of your DPS just can't get 4pc due to redundant drops? It's a trash loot system.

Same thing was/is happening right now. The amount of rng is beyond fustrating even with tokens. We killed xhul mythic back in august of 2015, and since we keep record, what loot bosses drop till the gear is irrelevant, the first vanq it dropped after the first kill, was in november.

Almost 3 months and 12 kills later he dropped the first vanq token. I even had to make a ticket cause it was starting to get rediculous at some point. Sure ppl coined it, but damn sometimes luck can never be on your side.

[Dybia]

No - I mean when you're trying to first kill bosses on Mythic. What happens when some of your DPS just can't get 4pc due to redundant drops? It's a trash loot system.

In all honesty that's probably not likely. I mean really hardcore mythic guilds would probably just be sure to stack at least two of each of their classes to share loot. Especially for classes that can be different roles since tier pieces change depending on your spec, so got a prot pally? Have him share loot with your ret pally for tier pieces. That's not even going into the possibility that they could implement the bad luck insurance thing they're doing for legendary items on tier pieces as well.

[grexly75]

No guild in their right mind would go without at least 1 class on each token.

Not every guild has the luxury of having one of every class, and we managed to clear 13/13 Heroic HFC with no issue.. Would of it been nice to have one of each class yes it would but you can only do with what cards are dealt to you.

Either way whatever the system is, be it token or not. Once your raid is full tier it is still a waste of said gear..

[App]

Not every guild has the luxury of having one of every class, and we managed to clear 13/13 HFC with no issue.. Would of it been nice to have one of each class yes it would but you can only do with what cards are dealt to you.

Is that 13/13 Heroic or Mythic? If it's heroic, I'm assuming you were 10 man and sure you might have a reason to not have every single class. But if it's mythic - no reason to not have every single class (minus Demon Hunters for very obvious reasons).

[Nuckels]

The reason for this seem to be that you don't know if a piece is gonna be warforged/socket before you use the token. Why not just have the warforged/socket bonus show up on the token itself?

Thats what I wonder, this change is retarded for serious raid guilds who do split runs.

[Skarzog]

So the potential problem down the line you're talking about is that 3 or 4 months in when people are completely geared on their current tier they might start getting redundant loot drops? My god the horror. My guild's one rogue will have to cry himself to sleep on his bed made of all the agility daggers, swords, and fist weapons he got from HFC Heroic/Mythic.

We're talking about RNG here.

With this new system we are looking at a return to extreme RNG associated with tier, expect its even worse because three new classes have been introduced since then.

Assuming you receive two pieces of tier you are looking at 5/9 chance of receiving the desired piece. With this new system you are looking at 23/144 chance. The increase in RNG associated with this system will make it possible to actually finish the raid tier without completing your tier set because of randomness like in Vanilla.

Its a bad system. The token system was introduced to solve this problem in the first place

[Freedom]

So what, a system that has worked since fucking AQ40 suddenly doesn't work any more? I am hoping this is bullshit, but given my guild is running PL it won't affect me anyways.

[Saracens]

Source from blizz?

[wowaccounttom]

good... this will slow down the gearing process

all they need to do is switch to 40m raids again and things will be great.

[Alvito]

its extreamly unlikley it will drop peices no one has... so if you have dks, mages and druids it will choose one of those, but if you have none then it will be random...

Tier has never been handled like that before. It would be odd for them to change loot now so you only got what your group could use. If they did it that way raids would start stacking certain classes and just loading up mains with loot. Sure you can do this to some degree with PL now, but you can only trade PL that is equal or worse then what you have. Your system would allow them to filter higher item lvl gear to mains.

[grexly75]

Is that 13/13 Heroic or Mythic? If it's heroic, I'm assuming you were 10 man and sure you might have a reason to not have every single class. But if it's mythic - no reason to not have every single class (minus Demon Hunters for very obvious reasons).

13/13 Heroic HFC, most times was 15 or more or less it would vary but we are a casual raiding guild and more often that not we were often one class heavy (mainly hunters) lol.. But since we are casual we would let folks bring what toon they felt most comfortable playing which again did give us problems but as before you can only do with what you are given..

Actually just reading the reddit link it is interesting indeed..

Quoted from the link:

For the guild master loot option the set/tier pieces will directly drop similiar to classic (i.e. instead of a Protector chest token the drop will be one of the Warrior/Hunter/Shaman/Monk chests) - this will remove the uncertainty whether a token may randomly warforge as well since the item will be directly lootable and assignable by the loot master.

So if reading that right the item will still be a multi class item just not in token form so it allows people to decide if they want to roll for it or not..

[Gorgodeus]

We're talking about RNG here.

With this new system we are looking at a return to extreme RNG associated with tier, expect its even worse because three new classes have been introduced since then.

Assuming you receive two pieces of tier you are looking at 5/9 chance of receiving the desired piece. With this new system you are looking at 23/144 chance. The increase in RNG associated with this system will make it possible to actually finish the raid tier without completing your tier set because of randomness like in Vanilla.

Its a bad system. The token system was introduced to solve this problem in the first place

How are you coming up with 23/144? Tier gear is usable for all your toons specs. Not just 1 spec.