LEGION Tier only drops as items and not Tokens accordign to gamescom Q&A

[Darkrulerxxx]

maybe their intent is to purposely slow down raid progression, as a lot of content is cleared quite quickly these days.

[Alvito]

good... this will slow down the gearing process

all they need to do is switch to 40m raids again and things will be great.

Maybe next they can force us to play on dial up internet too!

[laughtrey]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
lots of guilds use it cause like... no loot drama ever! "well its personal loot, no ones fault bro"

just like how NO ONE pet battles or NO ONE likes lfr

You're incredibly naive and delusional if you think this is the case. I've already experienced MORE drama with personal loot than without regarding the 'tradeable' pieces thing. When someone gets a piece of loot they don't need, these super entitled shits in pugs just open trade and spam whispers.


If you're in a guild and a piece of personal loot drops, who's decision is it on who gets the loot? It's THAT persons loot right? Guarenteed the group will bitch about who gets it.

[Gaucho-]

People need to calm down over this, for now. Remember that Emerald Nightmare has no tier items, and Nighthold will be released in ~January, going by what was said a few days ago by Watcher at GamesCom. Plenty of time to give feedback on this change!

[Gorgodeus]

maybe their intent is to purposely slow down raid progression, as a lot of content is cleared quite quickly these days.

This is probably close to the truth, although most people do seem to understand that.

[Nahela]

Combined with Relic drops, which are spec-specific drop, this is turning into a clusterfuck.

Even if the system has some failsafes in it, it's not going to stop dropping the tier when someone has it (due to WF/etc.), which means there will be a chance for DE'd tier loot as early as week 2 in raiding. That's a huge difference from the current scenario where you hit those dead-ends, but they're numerous weeks or months down the road on tokens.

Personal loot isn't even really an option for progression raiding even on just an issue of time-investment. Imagine trying to track, sort, and getting people to trade 5-8 pieces of loot per boss where people have to individually trade with each other. Even if you use addons to track it all (which would be necessary), finding out what's extra, sorting it on a LC level, then getting people to individually trade it is a huge amount of time vs. the default ML interface.

[Krazzorx]

You're incredibly naive and delusional if you think this is the case. I've already experienced MORE drama with personal loot than without regarding the 'tradeable' pieces thing. When someone gets a piece of loot they don't need, these super entitled shits in pugs just open trade and spam whispers.


If you're in a guild and a piece of personal loot drops, who's decision is it on who gets the loot? It's THAT persons loot right? Guarenteed the group will bitch about who gets it.

In this particular case I doubt the game will let you trade tier if you don't have it already.

[Kaizun]

Combined with Relic drops, which are spec-specific drop, this is turning into a clusterfuck.

Relics aren't really a spec-specific drop. If an Arcane relic drops, anyone who has a weapon that can use Arcane relics can use that relic- like tier gear, it just grants a different perk bonus based on your spec. Although, if you look at it from the perspective of a specific perk bonus you want, then it becomes a spec-specific drop... sort of.

[Deleted]

I see it as an attempt from Blizzard to reduce the importance of alt-raids during pre-mythic week: it won't be able to bring 3 mains and 27 alts to fuel all the loot (in particular tokens) to 3 mains, abusing the group size to get full gear in one or two weeks. It will still be doable, but will require 11 mains to not waste any tokens.

But i really dislike the increase RNG it will introduce

[Lionhearte0]

Bring atleast one of every class. Problem solved.

How do you fight 12 classes into a 10-man?

[grexly75]

How do you fight 12 classes into a 10-man?

No such thing as set 10 man as it used to be it is all flex, except for mythic raids..

[laughtrey]

In this particular case I doubt the game will let you trade tier if you don't have it already.

Ok, You missed the point there.

Say we're still on progression and we're using personal loot. I just got tier gloves last week and now this week I got them again and they're lower ilevel or have a tertiary stat on them and I can trade them.

Now they're MY gloves right? If I decide I want to give them to my friend in the guild or someone I think is gonna do a ton of DPS then guarenteed other people are gonna feel pissed off about not getting them. If the raid leader decides who gets them then whats the fuckin point of personal loot?

[Deleted]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
lots of guilds use it cause like... no loot drama ever! "well its personal loot, no ones fault bro"

just like how NO ONE pet battles or NO ONE likes lfr

NOTE. No real guilds use it. The ones that have loot drama I'd also hardly call real guilds. Imo loot council is the only way to go

- - - Updated - - -

I see it as an attempt from Blizzard to reduce the importance of alt-raids during pre-mythic week: it won't be able to bring 3 mains and 27 alts to fuel all the loot (in particular tokens) to 3 mains, abusing the group size to get full gear in one or two weeks. It will still be doable, but will require 11 mains to not waste any tokens.

But i really dislike the increase RNG it will introduce

12 mains to be exact.

[Krazzorx]

Ok, You missed the point there.

Say we're still on progression and we're using personal loot. I just got tier gloves last week and now this week I got them again and they're lower ilevel or have a tertiary stat on them and I can trade them.

Now they're MY gloves right? If I decide I want to give them to my friend in the guild or someone I think is gonna do a ton of DPS then guarenteed other people are gonna feel pissed off about not getting them. If the raid leader decides who gets them then whats the fuckin point of personal loot?

Never have any useless loot drop. (Eg, daggers for raids without rogues in the past and in current situation if you don't have a certain relic)

Plus, I'm pretty sure PL is specifically designed for pugs or casual guilds and if there's a circumstance where a more organized guild finds it better than ML so be it.

[Flurryfang]

I dislike the token system, so i am really all in for this. The tier sets are often a huge brawl to get their hands on, so with this, maybe chance is going to be more implecated in the drop, and people can be a little bit more relaxed about the drop chance.

Together with all the other + things, i really don't mind this choice of design It will not affect me or anybody, which i raid with, raids experience overall.

[cFortyfive]

The reason for this seem to be that you don't know if a piece is gonna be warforged/socket before you use the token. Why not just have the warforged/socket bonus show up on the token itself?

the technology just isn't there yet.
Obviously another retarded design decision but well not exactly news.

[Zeckka]

So if the 2 druids in the raid already have the specific tier piece, the guild should bench them to avoid useless set drop. Sounds amazing.

Inb4 drop rolls titanforged

[Skarzog]

How are you coming up with 23/144? Tier gear is usable for all your toons specs. Not just 1 spec.

Its pretty simple. Assuming you get 2 tier drops on a single boss.

With the current system you have 3 sets, conq, vanq, prot. The probability of seeing vanq on one of the two drops is (3+2)/3^2 or (2N-1)/N^2. Or just written out the outcomes are {Vanq, Vanq}, {Vanq,Conq}, {Vanq,Prot}, {Conq, Vanq}, {Conq, Conq}, {Conq, Prot}, {Prot, Vanq}, {Prot, Conq}, {Prot, Prot}. There are 9 possible outcomes, 5 of those outcomes includ 1 Vanq token.

With out tokens are have 12 individual sets and still out two drops. So now the probability of seeing lets say a Rogue item, regardless of spec is (2*12-1)/12^2 = 23/144.

Going even further the probability of k trials failing is (1-p)^k, so the probability of success of 1 - (1-p)^k. The number of trials required to get a 99% chance of receiving the desired piece with the token system is 5.68 without it is 26.5. Or less stringent; lets say the number of trails needed to have a 90% chance of seeing the desired piece is 2.84 with tokens and 13.23 without tokens.

TLDR: Moral of the story is even if ignore the fact there might be more people than just you looking for a specific item, the probability of seeing that item is severely diminished under this system. This was the problem in Vanilla with just 9 classes. Its the same problem here, but even worse now with 12 classes.

Its a shit system.

[Yxiomel]

How are you coming up with 23/144? Tier gear is usable for all your toons specs. Not just 1 spec.

There are 12 classes; so a piece would have a 1/12 chance of being for the correct class.
For two pieces: the first is a 1/12 chance. The second is then 11/12 (that is, you didn't get the one you wanted from the first item) * 1/12 (second piece is what you want).
So:
P(at least 1 item for the class you want) = 1/12 + 11/12*1/12
= 1/12 + 11/144
=12/144 + 11/144
=23/144

[Niwes]

i dont get it. i thought you can trade the personal loot stuff by yourself to others, if you wish so. if so, where is the problem for progression guilds ? you trade around like its best for the guild. if you get every fukin item and be 890 while all others are 820, then you need absurd luck (will never happen in reality) or you correctly be called a scrum in your guild bc you never traded a single item to your 1-2 mates of the same class. so whats the problem ? if you can trade PL its the same as always... ? dont get it.