Could Relentless break rogues in pvp?

[shaunika123]

SO relentless is a pvp talent that reduces CC duration on you passively by 25%, but replaces pvp trinket

and since the majority of a sub rogue's CC comes from actually getting a target OUT of combat, this talent will make that almost impossible under normal circumstances

you'll no longer be able to sap off of a kidney even with deeper stratagem it's only 5,25 which probably wont be enough with how buggy the combat check still is.
even blind is only 6 sec which means it'll be really unreliable to sap off of.

im not saying rogues will be bad in arena, cos i know they're good atm, but the problem is that if we cant CC people that well, we'll be just reduced to training people to death and i dont want that.

every other class is just "yeah yo do less CC" but for rogues it's exponentially less since we chain it

mages will still be able to deep/DB poly druids will still be able to bash cyclone, but Kidney sap is basically gone

[Terahertz]

Damn. I actually didn't even think about this. That's actually pretty fucked up lol. Combat and Assass won't have any problem with the talent, but sub definitely will. If it wasn't for sub's damage and survivability at 110 (from what I've seen, haven't played beta myself), they probably would be trash tier with orcs being the dominant race in Legion.

[Lulbalance]

SO relentless is a pvp talent that reduces CC duration on you passively by 25%, but replaces pvp trinket

and since the majority of a sub rogue's CC comes from actually getting a target OUT of combat, this talent will make that almost impossible under normal circumstances

you'll no longer be able to sap off of a kidney even with deeper stratagem it's only 5,25 which probably wont be enough with how buggy the combat check still is.
even blind is only 6 sec which means it'll be really unreliable to sap off of.

im not saying rogues will be bad in arena, cos i know they're good atm, but the problem is that if we cant CC people that well, we'll be just reduced to training people to death and i dont want that.

every other class is just "yeah yo do less CC" but for rogues it's exponentially less since we chain it

mages will still be able to deep/DB poly druids will still be able to bash cyclone, but Kidney sap is basically gone

mages dont have deep..and ferals dont have clone. Rogues are pretty good even with healers spec'n relentless, everyone is losing cc. I do agree that if you lost surv it would be a tough go though.

[Rorke]

Relentless is dumb, it shouldn't even be in the game. The first Tier shouldn't exist, everyone should just have a 2 min trinket and that's it.

[GodEmperor]

Stuns on Orcs with relentless are extremely low duration. Kind of retarded. Inc Orc Resto Shamans and Orc Mistweavers.

Kind of agree that the first tier is weird. Think they only added the first two tiers because they ran out of ideas for PvP talents.

[ItachiZaku]

Relentless is dumb, it shouldn't even be in the game. The first Tier shouldn't exist, everyone should just have a 2 min trinket and that's it.

Human's would QQ so hard.

[Noocta]

Human's would QQ so hard.

Why ? They already changed the HUman racial, it's a stun version of the will fo the forsaken effect now.

[shaunika123]

mages dont have deep..and ferals dont have clone. Rogues are pretty good even with healers spec'n relentless, everyone is losing cc. I do agree that if you lost surv it would be a tough go though.

i didnt say ferals had clone, i ment balance/resto
and yeah ur right there's no deep, but dragon's breath still gives enough time to poly even with relentless

i know everyone is losing CC but a talent that makes you practically immune to only one CC from one class is stupid

[Lulbalance]

i didnt say ferals had clone, i ment balance/resto
and yeah ur right there's no deep, but dragon's breath still gives enough time to poly even with relentless

i know everyone is losing CC but a talent that makes you practically immune to only one CC from one class is stupid

balance doesn't have clone either, does it?

yea true about DB (although it doesnt give enough time to fake the poly beforehand comfortably, i think you can still spam ring and land it if you get kicked).. that will prolly get looked at it because its just so much cc for one spec. added to the fact that you blink during a poly/ring cast and even LoS is moot. guess i'm maining mage again :/

I'm not arguing that relentless is ok.. 25% is hilarious and if its on an orc shaman..LOL!! but i dunno.. anything under 20 and no one picks it.

[shaunika123]

balance doesn't have clone either, does it?

yea true about DB (although it doesnt give enough time to fake the poly beforehand comfortably, i think you can still spam ring and land it if you get kicked).. that will prolly get looked at it because its just so much cc for one spec. added to the fact that you blink during a poly/ring cast and even LoS is moot. guess i'm maining mage again :/

I'm not arguing that relentless is ok.. 25% is hilarious and if its on an orc shaman..LOL!! but i dunno.. anything under 20 and no one picks it.

im fine with relentless existing, just make it drop combat faster then as well

the point is that it makes you immune to sap, you can still get polied, feared, cycloned, etc anything for less duration, but you basically wont ever get sapped. and i think that's kindof skewed towards one single class due to the nature of how sap works.

[Aherooffools]

Add in Orc Hardiness and you'll never be able to stun orcs. 45% stun reduction ftw.

[Deleted]

There is nothing wrong about it! you give up your trinket for it after all. It is not like everyone will take it and it offers a viable choice to your trinket which is a good thing. Even the racial orcs do have, is quite balanced when all the racials are considered and compared. The human racial is still strong and so is in return an interesting alternative now with the Orc one.

Rogues are still in a good spot regarding the damage and cc, compared to other classes. So it is not much of a loss.

[Stormspellz]

seeing as they are still the best (two best actually) melee on beta, going to go with no.

[Terahertz]

seeing as they are still the best (two best actually) melee on beta, going to go with no.

Only because of their survivability, damage and stickiness, though. If those get nerfed, sub rogue will become trash tier because of weak and impossible to pull off CC.

[Deleted]

Add in Orc Hardiness and you'll never be able to stun orcs. 45% stun reduction ftw.

And thats fine in my opinion, the game needs flavour and having one race with big resistance to stuns is fine, its not like rogues are not still overpowered even with stun reductions

[Stormspellz]

Only because of their survivability, damage and stickiness, though. If those get nerfed, sub rogue will become trash tier because of weak and impossible to pull off CC.

Thats like saying rshaman are only the best because the heal the best. and their cc is still obnoxious even through orc relentless

[Terahertz]

Thats like saying rshaman are only the best because the heal the best. and their cc is still obnoxious even through orc relentless

I don't see how that's relevant to my point? I'm saying that if they nerf what's currently arguably overpowered about sub rogues they'll become trash tier due to no redeeming factor, which used to always be their ability to CC and chain stuns/blind into Sap.

[Lulbalance]

I don't see how that's relevant to my point? I'm saying that if they nerf what's currently arguably overpowered about sub rogues they'll become trash tier due to no redeeming factor, which used to always be their ability to CC and chain stuns/blind into Sap.

Personally i see the point you're trying to make and I think you're right, if you take a bat (and you will) because of general casuals complaining about self heals in stealth, cloak cd and damage.. rogues are effectively finished. You'd have 1 comp after that.. maybe 2 that could carry cc and put out enough pressure to keep you up and offensive.

[Stormspellz]

I don't see how that's relevant to my point? I'm saying that if they nerf what's currently arguably overpowered about sub rogues they'll become trash tier due to no redeeming factor, which used to always be their ability to CC and chain stuns/blind into Sap.

Sub could use nerfs across the board and still be in a better spot then half the melee, while relentless hardness is silly rogues are miles a head of most other specs which also many utilize stuns, and you will still have plenty of opportunity to sap out of cc, you just can't cc the entire team and do it yourself anymore.

[shaunika123]

seeing as they are still the best (two best actually) melee on beta, going to go with no.

broken doesnt equal underpowered/underpowered

if you actually bothered to read my post you'd know

i specifically said "i dont want sub rogue to be about tunneling people to death instead of having good control" and relentless would turn them into exactly that since it literally makes people immune to sap

no matter how good rogues are, that's just retarded

you just can't cc the entire team and do it yourself anymore.

we cant really do that anymore since we lost garrote and gouge but k.

you will still have plenty of opportunity to sap out of cc

you do realize that basically none of the non sap DR spells are long enough to sap off of with relentless

There is nothing wrong about it! you give up your trinket for it after all. It is not like everyone will take it and it offers a viable choice to your trinket which is a good thing. Even the racial orcs do have, is quite balanced when all the racials are considered and compared. The human racial is still strong and so is in return an interesting alternative now with the Orc one.

Rogues are still in a good spot regarding the damage and cc, compared to other classes. So it is not much of a loss.

as i said before, it affects rogues in a much more complex way than any other class

poly and stuff just lasts for a shorter amount of time, but against rogues you're basically immune to sap outside their opener.