Jaina Proudmoore - Butchering

[DeltrusDisc]

I will kill everyone you care about and you will have to chill, because its war and this thing happens. Yeah and on the top of that i will call you whiny kid, because you cant get over it, you crybaby. You are just overreacting, you are either insane or dreadlord.. This behaviour isnt normal you princess, grow up.

Should also mention, my in-game title I wear is The Insane.

[Valysar]

I loved Jaina, but now I fear that she'll ally herself with the Legion to destroy the Horde...

[Narveid]

I'm Alliance.

Also, if anyone is overreacting, your incredibly aggressive post is exactly that. XD baahahhahahaa

Jaina is blind and annoying, she whines and points fingers at ENTIRE factions of people, not just the individuals who were responsible. Yes, it sucks what happened to Theramore. I was sad when it happened - I am still sad, however she is unnecessarily bent on revenge, it's ridiculous. GARROSH IS DEAD. HIS HORDE IS DEAD. HIS SECOND HORDE (the Iron one) IS DEAD. What more can she possibly deserve?!

There was a time I liked her - no more. She can die for all I care. Cry some more that an Alliance member wants her dead.

Yeah, because it is not like all the races of the Horde took part in trying to take Theramore. Oh. Wait.

[Archmage Khadgar]

I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if they make her a raid boss.

They could have made her handle this supposed betrayal by the Horde at the broken front a LOT better, but they chose to make her act like a child about it. Makes me feel like they're driving her towards going totally insane again and becoming an enemy.

[luma]

She used to be my favorite character, even as a Horde player. I get it, she is broken, but it's about time to recover their sanity. This "kill them all" attitude doesn't make any sense when we think about her personality. Everyone knows it was Garrosh fault. Even in despair, this Jaina is not the same person we used to know, I guess I have to agree that Blizzard lost their hand or she is truly a dreadlord.

By the way, as a blood elf, we didn't blame the entire alliance when her boyfriend destroyed our city and kill 90% of our people.

[Dartz1979]

I'm gonna put you all in your place and say this STOP bashing and hating on jaina so much she's my babe

[Andromedes]

I loved Jaina, but now I fear that she'll ally herself with the Legion to destroy the Horde...

Nah, she will go for help to long forgotten Kul Tiras and destroys orgrimmar once and for all. /evil laugh

Should also mention, my in-game title I wear is The Insane.

Congratz, must have took a long time to get that title.

[Pandaofsorrow]

Both Garrosh and Jaina's writing is a mess. Garrosh's disdain for the Alliance makes no sense, he starts off as a pansy in TBC until Thrall riles his spirits up. Garrosh seems to hate the Alliance simply because they aren't on his team. Varian comes off as a douche in WoTLK also, but when you realize his father was murdered by the Horde, his city razed by the Horde, his adoptive father Lothar killed by an Orc, and later in adulthood enslaved by an orc, then his brother in arms killed by the Forsaken....his hatred makes a lot of sense. Yet even he's way more reasonable and understand's the Horde have shades of grey just like the Alliance.

Garrosh's disdain for the Alliance can only be summed up to the fact that he's an old school Draenor orc, with daddy issues. Orcs in Draenor don't believe in diplomacy, they don't negotiate with freakin Ogre's or other Orc clans, they bash each other on the head until one cries uncle. Which is fine....but the fact that Thrall is dumb enough to appoint him Warchief knowing this. I mean the guy has been in the Horde for a total of 2 years, meanwhile you have options like Saurfang, Vol'jin and Cairne, and you go with the impatient warmonger.

As for Jaina, they need to make it clear that the Mana Bomb's magical effects really screwed up her psyche or something. Thrall was her best friend ffs, she knows damn well the Horde aren't all monsters, them rising up to take down Garrosh should be full proof of it. The writers simply needed someone on the Alliance side to be an instigator, they simmered Varian's aggression down after all.

The thing is they have much better options that make freaking sense.

Magni and/or Muradin are Second War Vetaran's that still harbor old hatreds. "Move your jallopy or we'll blow it outta the sky!"

Tyrande is xenophobic and impatient by nature and isn't the "good priest" people think she is. The orcs killing Cenarius and how the Horde constantly plunder Ashenvale's lumber is enough to keep her as an aggressor.

Genn Greyman also a Second War Vetaran harbor's old hatred's and the savage nature of the worgen curse certainly don't help.

I always held the belief that garrosh's writing only went bad after cataclysm. It makes sense up to that point, hes a jerk sure but we was in the business of fighting the alliance and he was good at it. I justify what he did up to that point as a business decision, he still had honor though and the game stressed it (condemnation for the broken front events, wotlk speech with saurfang at Warsong hold, stone talon mountains ..... There are more) . He definitely has the opportunity to be a monster and it would of benefitted him more, but he did everything for the sake of war.

After cataclysm his character turns from a jerk with a moral code (albeit one that he sees as moral when others may not) to just a jerk. I attribute the 180 in character to all the butthurt fans that hated him for silly reasons, blizzard probably just scrapped any redemption story for him or any character development that would of been interesting, because of crybaby players

[KrazyK923]

I just love that Jaina gets accused of being a badly written character because she rightfully hates the Horde. And then when she's up for giving peace another chance (Like in MoP pre-Divine Bell), and another example of Horde abuse of her neutrality leads her to hating them again...

...but surely somehow Jaina is badly written.

It can't be that she's just willing to call out the crap the Horde has done. We all know they are blameless!

- - - Updated - - -

I loved Jaina, but now I fear that she'll ally herself with the Legion to destroy the Horde...

Its not like her home was annihilated by the Legion in the Third War.

[DeltrusDisc]

Congratz, must have took a long time to get that title.

Not sure if sarcasm, but yeah, I did it in Wrath, when it was still around the peak of its difficulty... I wear it with pride, as insane as that is. haw haw haw.

[Pengalor]

Please don't start that. Garrosh WAS the Horde. Player characters did his bidding for an expansion and a half, and no one truly stood up to him until Garrosh tried to have Vol'jin killed. Everything else up to that point Horde players had a direct hand in, including the bombing of Theramore. Even Baine followed Garrosh's orders after his father was killed.

If you truly think this then you aren't familiar enough with the lore. The Horde leaders were basically forced into lockstep (especially Vol'jin whose people lived right next to Org and had nowhere else to go, this fear is proven justified when Garrosh begins executing the Darkspear in the streets). Also, none of the leaders knew he was going to bomb Theramore. Hell, Baine even sent a messenger to Theramore to warn them that Garrosh was on the march (of course, this played into Garrosh's plan but they had no way of knowing that). They were shocked and appalled at the bombing but the damage was already done.

[DeltrusDisc]

Yeah, because it is not like all the races of the Horde took part in trying to take Theramore. Oh. Wait.

I mean sure? Conquest is a pretty normal thing to be honest and we're all guilty of it at some point or another in WoW...

Eh, I just don't care for her anymore. Something is missing...

[Pengalor]

I just love that Jaina gets accused of being a badly written character because she rightfully hates the Horde. And then when she's up for giving peace another chance (Like in MoP pre-Divine Bell), and another example of Horde abuse of her neutrality leads her to hating them again...

Are you kidding? Of course she's poorly written. She went from being the single biggest proponent of working with the Horde to basically being a racist all because of the actions of a single warchief. It would be one thing if she had eased up once Garrosh was removed from leadership but she's still just as prejudiced despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Horde is obviously willing to work with the Alliance.

[DeltrusDisc]

Are you kidding? Of course she's poorly written. She went from being the single biggest proponent of working with the Horde to basically being a racist all because of the actions of a single warchief. It would be one thing if she had eased up once Garrosh was removed from leadership but she's still just as prejudiced despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Horde is obviously willing to work with the Alliance.

OOoooooh, but the Horde "abandoned" the Alliance on the Broken Shore! Whatever will we do but KILL our only potential allies against the Legion?! bahahaa

/again, this coming from an Alliance player.

[Luckx]

Please don't start that. Garrosh WAS the Horde. Player characters did his bidding for an expansion and a half, and no one truly stood up to him until Garrosh tried to have Vol'jin killed. Everything else up to that point Horde players had a direct hand in, including the bombing of Theramore. Even Baine followed Garrosh's orders after his father was killed.

And Garithos was not a member of the current Alliance. He was a member of what was left of the Alliance of Lordaeron, AKA the Old Alliance. Most of that Alliance either became Forsaken or Scarlet Crusade. So not equivalent.

But, I'll say, I agree on Jaina. They portray her so inconsistently. Unlike others, however, I think she has every right to be as anti-Horde as she is, but the problem is that in spite of that justification, they portray her as some sort of villain. They can't give her any subtlety. Instead of saying, "Hey people, you're stupid for trusting a race that resorted to fel magic the second the chips were down. I mean, you want to trust the fight with the Burning Legion with those kind of people? What if they offer them a better deal? Oh, and by the way, their Warchief is a crazy genocidal bitch." Nope, instead she basically screams "MUH REVENGE!" and storms out. Because in Blizzard's world, any Alliance who hates the Horde, in spite of being given every reason in the world to, are portrayed either as villains or ignorant souls who need to be taught by the other saints in the Alliance to forgive and forget.

It was not Horde who summoned Legion but Highborne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

Garrosh hated warlocks in MOP, and Gul'Dan is probably not even real Orc but a Demon, in warcraft movie main characters call Gul'Dan a demon.

Jaina is blind and annoying, she whines and points fingers at ENTIRE factions of people, not just the individuals who were responsible. Yes, it sucks what happened to Theramore. I was sad when it happened - I am still sad, however she is unnecessarily bent on revenge, it's ridiculous. GARROSH IS DEAD. HIS HORDE IS DEAD. HIS SECOND HORDE (the Iron one) IS DEAD. What more can she possibly deserve?!

Totally agree, there is alot ppl like jaina in real life who point at entire nation/country or even race just because of some individuals, forgotetting that there is individuals among almost any group of ppl including group of their own.

[Raetary]

Yeah, because it is not like all the races of the Horde took part in trying to take Theramore. Oh. Wait.

garrosh basically forced them, if they didnt obey garrosh would've turned both, the echo isles and thunder bluff into kor'kronnopolis and hawaii ala kor'kron.
vol'jin and baine felt shit after garrosh nuked the city down.

[shaunika123]

i actually liked her arc up until her ragequit in the kirin tor, because that was so backwards.

i didnt mind the theramore stuff and her letting alliance through, ultimately she still is part of the alliance, so she will be biased, outright refusing to help the alliance there wouldve been borderline treason, and she does get what's coming to her for doing it, even though it's tragic, it helps build her character, but then she calms down after mop in war crimes and actually starts seeing reason even if she wont be the same diplomatic, neutral person she once was

but now shes back to her post theramore self for no reason. it's like war crimes never happened.

Are you kidding? Of course she's poorly written. She went from being the single biggest proponent of working with the Horde to basically being a racist all because of the actions of a single warchief. It would be one thing if she had eased up once Garrosh was removed from leadership but she's still just as prejudiced despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Horde is obviously willing to work with the Alliance.

i really dont see what's so hard to understand about this almost anyone would go into a state of unreasonable unyielding rage if that amount of tragedy happened to her, literally everyone she loved was wiped out by the horde, her apprentice literally turned to dust in her own hands, how could you not go fucking mental?

the problem is that even though she was starting to see reason at the end of MoP(despite still hating the horde she was willing to compromise) she just reverted back when khadgar wanted to invite the horde back for the sake of "drama"

it's like the legion story is written by someone in the CW

[Pengalor]

i really dont see what's so hard to understand about this almost anyone would go into a state of unreasonable unyielding rage if that amount of tragedy happened to her, literally everyone she loved was wiped out by the horde, her apprentice literally turned to dust in her own hands, how could you not go fucking mental?

Sure, if you look at it in a vacuum it's fine. However, when she goes from being one of the only voices of reason for decades to all of a sudden going full genocide mode it's just bad writing, no matter what she suffered. Now, before they explained this away as 'she was crazy from the magic of the mana bomb' but if that's the case then she wouldn't have gotten better and then gone right back to being crazy again. Therefore, their idea is she suffered a trauma that is now several years in the past but she still randomly goes between angry but reasonable to hatemonger depending on the day. She didn't do any healing, she didn't once stop to consider over these several years that maybe all this evidence that most of the Horde was against Garrosh means that maybe it wasn't the Horde's doing but that of Garrosh and his closest advisers. Going from one extreme to the other without serious mental impairment is just shitty character building.

[Ravingmad]

Jaina (Wicked Witch) vs Sylvanas (Lady Death), epic mud fight in bikini. Thats pretty much how its gonna end, minus a few details.

My 2 cents.

[TomatoBisque]

I 100% agree with pengalor

Jaina's change is frustrating because from nearly the very beginning she was characterized as someone willing to trust the Horde despite past conflicts and tensions, and then Blizzard threw this 180 in personality at us right when Anduin becomes a major character and all that came with that. It wasn't like there was a theme of "Alliance and Horde can never get along, one has to go" building up, but rather the opposite, so seeing Jaina abandon that viewpoint so abruptly to take a viewpoint more extreme than that of her father who she helped kill.

And it's not like this was a slow change, where Jaina felt hurt by things the Horde had done and slowly started to have second thoughts about them. She was still the voice of reason in Wrath, trying to keep Varian from becoming a warmonger bent on destroying the Horde. Yet in MoP, we see the roles reversed, where Jaina attempts to convince Varian to dismantle the Horde and he becomes the voice of reason.

Extremists characters are fine--Genn has reason to be angry at the Horde, and he doesn't get shit like Jaina because his previous actions made sense with the direction his character has taken. Jaina's don't. With Jaina, it feels like the previous character was destroyed to make Varian and Anduin look better.