Jaina Proudmoore - Butchering

[shaunika123]

Sure, if you look at it in a vacuum it's fine. However, when she goes from being one of the only voices of reason for decades to all of a sudden going full genocide mode it's just bad writing, no matter what she suffered.

how is that bad writing? this is basically two face from batman, is that bad writing too?

[Pengalor]

how is that bad writing? this is basically two face from batman, is that bad writing too?

Did you not read the rest of the my post? I explained all this. Two Face is fine because he is legitimately insane, his mind is so broken that it split his personality in two. Jaina is being portrayed as not crazy at all, just angry, and that makes no sense.

[shaunika123]

Did you not read the rest of the my post? I explained all this. Two Face is fine because he is legitimately insane, his mind is so broken that it split his personality in two. Jaina is being portrayed as not crazy at all, just angry, and that makes no sense.

the rest of your post doesnt matter, because i already agreed that post mop shes being badly written like 5 times, so i wont argue that, but yoU're saying that her initial rage is unreasonable and im calling BS on that.

[Andromedes]

I 100% agree with pengalor

Jaina's change is frustrating because from nearly the very beginning she was characterized as someone willing to trust the Horde despite past conflicts and tensions, and then Blizzard threw this 180 in personality at us right when Anduin becomes a major character and all that came with that. It wasn't like there was a theme of "Alliance and Horde can never get along, one has to go" building up, but rather the opposite, so seeing Jaina abandon that viewpoint so abruptly to take a viewpoint more extreme than that of her father who she helped kill.

And it's not like this was a slow change, where Jaina felt hurt by things the Horde had done and slowly started to have second thoughts about them. She was still the voice of reason in Wrath, trying to keep Varian from becoming a warmonger bent on destroying the Horde. Yet in MoP, we see the roles reversed, where Jaina attempts to convince Varian to dismantle the Horde and he becomes the voice of reason.

Extremists characters are fine--Genn has reason to be angry at the Horde, and he doesn't get shit like Jaina because his previous actions made sense with the direction his character has taken. Jaina's don't. With Jaina, it feels like the previous character was destroyed to make Varian and Anduin look better.

Do you lack empathy or dont you know about Theramore incident? Destroying of Theramore was the thing why she turned 180°.

[corebit]

Did you not read the rest of the my post? I explained all this. Two Face is fine because he is legitimately insane, his mind is so broken that it split his personality in two. Jaina is being portrayed as not crazy at all, just angry, and that makes no sense.

It makes all the sense in the world when she lost her friends in the Theramore bombing, and she's now driven by revenge just like Genn. Perhaps you think it makes no sense since you as a player use meta-knowledge as an all-knowing, all-wise entity to pass judgment on character's decisions. But characters in a story don't work that way. Same with IRL people get into conflicts over simple misunderstandings all the time.

At the end of the day, don't try to think as a player who knows everything, but as that character. Same with all the posts condemning the Alliance for not knowing what happened with the Horde at the Broken Shore. How were they supposed to know? Then the story will make more sense to you.

[Pengalor]

It makes all the sense in the world when she lost her friends in the Theramore bombing, and she's now driven by revenge just like Genn. Perhaps you think it makes no sense since you as a player use meta-knowledge as an all-knowing, all-wise entity to pass judgment on character's decisions. But characters in a story don't work that way. Same with IRL people get into conflicts over simple misunderstandings all the time.

So you think it's 'meta-knowledge' to expect a character who always questioned and criticized the untethered hatred of the Horde to maybe question her own hatred of an entire faction when most of that faction helped her to remove the person that perpetrated the crimes against her? Especially when years have passed since the events in question? You're perfectly fine with her new hypocrisy and closed-mindedness? Her irrationality is completely excused because a shitty warchief did some terrible things, regardless of the fact that he was clearly doing horrible things to his own people too?

[corebit]

So you think it's 'meta-knowledge' to expect a character who always questioned and criticized the untethered hatred of the Horde to maybe question her own hatred of an entire faction when most of that faction helped her to remove the person that perpetrated the crimes against her? Especially when years have passed since the events in question? You're perfectly fine with her new hypocrisy and closed-mindedness? Her irrationality is completely excused because a shitty warchief did some terrible things, regardless of the fact that he was clearly doing horrible things to his own people too?

Why would Jaina think that the other Horde are "helping her" against Garrosh, when those same Horde stood around doing nothing to oppose Garrosh in the bombing of Theramore? From her view, they are all "helping" out of opportunistic intention to take power for themselves.

[Spunt]

Why would Jaina think that the other Horde are "helping her" against Garrosh, when those same Horde stood around doing nothing to oppose Garrosh in the bombing of Theramore? From her view, they are all "helping" out of opportunistic intention to take power for themselves.

Yep, it's not like she was warned about the impending attack or anything by one of the horde's faction leaders who didn't agree with Garrosh......o wait.

[Pengalor]

Why would Jaina think that the other Horde are "helping her" against Garrosh, when those same Horde stood around doing nothing to oppose Garrosh in the bombing of Theramore? From her view, they are all "helping" out of opportunistic intention to take power for themselves.

She should do that because that's what she's always done. Remember the Wrathgate? She didn't immediately jump to hating the Horde or even the Forsaken. She remained level-headed, asked questions, and was told that it was a betrayal from within. There we go, problem sorted. That's why it would be fine if they had just made her crazy, at least that would have made some level of sense. But no, now it's just that she's changed because it was her ass on the line this time which just makes her look weak and unprincipled.

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Yep, it's not like she was warned about the impending attack or anything by one of the horde's faction leaders who didn't agree with Garrosh......o wait.

^This too. If Baine sends a messenger to warn you about the attack then it's a fair bet there's some disagreement among the leaders of the Horde.

[corebit]

Yep, it's not like she was warned about the impending attack or anything by one of the horde's faction leaders who didn't agree with Garrosh......o wait.

Which is akin to doing nothing to stop Garrosh. And what was Jaina supposed to with that warning? Tensions between the factions were already going strong at that time. Should she dismantle all Theramore's protections at once and risk other attacks? Evacuate Theramore? Which they most likely didn't have enough time to do that.

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She should do that because that's what she's always done. Remember the Wrathgate? She didn't immediately jump to hating the Horde or even the Forsaken. She remained level-headed, asked questions, and was told that it was a betrayal from within. There we go, problem sorted. That's why it would be fine if they had just made her crazy, at least that would have made some level of sense. But no, now it's just that she's changed because it was her ass on the line this time which just makes her look weak and unprincipled.

The difference between this and Wrathgate was all her friends weren't turned to dust before her eyes.

If you can remain "level-headed and ask questions" if your family and friends all suffer the same fate, then I'll call you saint.

[Spunt]

Which is akin to doing nothing to stop Garrosh. And what was Jaina supposed to with that warning? Tensions between the factions were already going strong at that time. Should she dismantle all Theramore's protections at once and risk other attacks? Evacuate Theramore? Which they most likely didn't have enough time to do that.

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The difference between this and Wrathgate was all her friends weren't turned to dust before her eyes.

If you can remain "level-headed and ask questions" if your family and friends all suffer the same fate, then I'll call you saint.

Well, for one, she could have, I don't know....EVACUATED EVERYONE. But nope, instead she decides to bring more people to the city.

In short, Jaina is a grade A moron.

[Pengalor]

The difference between this and Wrathgate was all her friends weren't turned to dust before her eyes.

If you can remain "level-headed and ask questions" if your family and friends all suffer the same fate, then I'll call you saint.

Exactly, weak and unprincipled. It completely shits all over what her character used to be about and just shows that she only did it because it was never really her or her loved ones on the line. She's a coward and a hypocrite (as well as now a shitty character). Like I said before, it's been years since the bombing so it makes her look even worse that she hasn't used any of that time to reflect on her hatred or question the information she's been going on.

Let me put it this way: do you think it would be fair for someone who lost family members in 9/11 to still vehemently hate all Muslims? Same deal.

[Argarock]

Im just sad that they're making her out to be a bad guy..

It's kinda obvious too, that she'll just be another plot-point we're going to have to "deal with"


Maybe She's a dreadlord? and the "real" jaina is locked up somewhere..

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If she's not a dreadlord, and they're actually going with the "oh noes, we need to stop her" route. at least let her kill thrall before she dies..

[KrazyK923]

Are you kidding? Of course she's poorly written. She went from being the single biggest proponent of working with the Horde to basically being a racist all because of the actions of a single warchief. It would be one thing if she had eased up once Garrosh was removed from leadership but she's still just as prejudiced despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the Horde is obviously willing to work with the Alliance.

Yeah how dare a character be mad when their homeland got nuked. And then even after easing up and trying again to maintain peace, gets fucked over again in 5.1.

What a poorly written character!

Give me a break.

I forgot where I was. The forum where any character who has any amount of anti-horde sentiment gets called bad. Carry on with the Horde biased bullshit. I have no idea why I expected different.

[corebit]

Well, for one, she could have, I don't know....EVACUATED EVERYONE. But nope, instead she decides to bring more people to the city.

In short, Jaina is a grade A moron.

1. Lorewise the population in Theramore is a lot bigger than what we see in-game. It wouldn't have been feasible for Jaina to consider that option.
2. She probably thought the other Horde leaders including Thrall would use their leverage as leaders to convince Garrosh, or maybe she thought Garrosh as warmonger as he was, at least had some Orc honor and wouldn't bomb a city from afar instead of a honorable fight.
3. She felt there wasn't anywhere else to evacuate to, with all the Cataclysm going on.

[Spunt]

Yeah how dare a character be mad when their homeland got nuked. And then even after easing up and trying again to maintain peace, gets fucked over again in 5.1.

What a poorly written character!

Give me a break.

I forgot where I was. The forum where any character who has any amount of anti-horde sentiment gets called bad.

Theramore was an inside job! Manabombs can't melt steel beams!

[Pengalor]

Yeah how dare a character be mad when their homeland got nuked. And then even after easing up and trying again to maintain peace, gets fucked over again in 5.1.

What a poorly written character!

Give me a break.

I forgot where I was. The forum where any character who has any amount of anti-horde sentiment gets called bad.

LOL yeah, definitely, ignore all the reasonable arguments and fire up that Alliance victim complex.

[Vynestra]

Blizzards writing of females are atrocious, it's either PMS or boobs.

It's bad. Christie Golden did an amazing job in tides of war and war crimes, but kosak butchered her, chewed her up and spit her back out.

Shame.

[KrazyK923]

LOL yeah, definitely, ignore all the reasonable arguments and fire up that Alliance victim complex.

"reasonable arguments."

Thank you for that late night laugh fest. Keep on ignoring someone's entire home getting nuked is somehow not worthy of her hating the faction that did it. Keep pathetically pretending that it only fell on Garrosh's shoulders despite all the Horde races being involved.

Keep pretending you're making "reasonable arguments" and then talking about a victim complex.

Bahahahahaha.

I am glad this thread exists, so anybody who isn't a Horde fanboy circlejerking about how they dindu nuffin will see how insane you guys are.

[lockybalboa]

The Horde favoritism in this forum is seriously sickening FFS, do you guys expect her to be all jolly and saintly after all the shit that has happened to her.