Will SnD ever be a DPS increase for Outlaw?

[Daedius]

For general questing, outlaw can be fun... but when you want to do solid DPS I honestly don't like the randomness of RtB... you either hit like a truck, or a wet noodle. As such I'm going to main Assassination or Subtlety come Legion.

[elfporn]

Not actually true. Currently at 110, 35% of the time taking SnD would have been a DPS increase. Obviously you'd never bank on that low chance, but it is possible.

i think you're referencing the large delta in rtb dps potential? yea it's there, and yes you compensate for it. That does not make SnD a dps increase at all.

[Korkk]

i think you're referencing the large delta in rtb dps potential? yea it's there, and yes you compensate for it. That does not make SnD a dps increase at all.

Rogue theorycrafter said that 35% of the time taking SnD would have been a dps increase over RtB. I believe it was Fierydemise (via twitter) You would never take a talent for it to have a -chance- to deal more damage; I was just saying there are instances where it would be a dps increase to do so.

[Mrkew]

With RtB, whether your group succeeds is not in your hands, but in the hands of fate. While I agree that reaction to your rolled buffs is important, it's very limited. You just don't have enough control over your damage output. Especially in mythic+ dungeons, where the fights are shorter than on boss encounters, what you roll might be detrimental to the run itself. If there's a difficult pull and you get only one buff and you don't have AR to reroll quickly, you are effectively useless to the group.
I would like skill to separate the good from the better, not lottery.
Despite all the reasonable complaints about the insight system, saving deep insight took more skill than praying to God for 3/6 buffs.
Now, if there was a dps cooldown which would influence your rolls, then it would be much better.

[elfporn]

Rogue theorycrafter said that 35% of the time taking SnD would have been a dps increase over RtB. I believe it was Fierydemise (via twitter) You would never take a talent for it to have a -chance- to deal more damage; I was just saying there are instances where it would be a dps increase to do so.

he's correct. in sims, 35% of the time, when using RTB, snd may have performed better. In real life those situations are mitigated by rerolling for 2+. Completely mitigated. And depending on how long ago he mentioned that, it's very likely out of date.

- - - Updated - - -

With RtB, whether your group succeeds is not in your hands, but in the hands of fate. While I agree that reaction to your rolled buffs is important, it's very limited. You just don't have enough control over your damage output. Especially in mythic+ dungeons, where the fights are shorter than on boss encounters, what you roll might be detrimental to the run itself. If there's a difficult pull and you get only one buff and you don't have AR to reroll quickly, you are effectively useless to the group.
I would like skill to separate the good from the better, not lottery.
Despite all the reasonable complaints about the insight system, saving deep insight took more skill than praying to God for 3/6 buffs.
Now, if there was a dps cooldown which would influence your rolls, then it would be much better.

you're severely severely underestimating how much control you have over rtb.

ALL of the buffs are now almost equal, SiW is ahead of the others, but not by much. Bad rolls are situationally bad.

And there is a dps cooldown which influences your rolls, it's called MfD.

Bandists guile made us useless outside of deep insight, be glad it's gone
b

[Holofernes]

wasnt there some bluepost about hotfixing it so its a mere 5 %ish difference between the rolls? top rolls get like 10 % more than snd and flop gets like 5 %ish below`?

In some interview some dev made it clear that it is intended to be a classic choice between potential and reliability, and of course good use of potential will benefit a small margin, but if one option turns out to be consistently ahead they will tune it.

[dorfeater]

Gotta love rolling one buff 5+ times in a row though. I dislike the RNG aspect of it too, but it's not like SnD is a shining beacon of gameplay. In a perfectly balanced world, I'd rather take SnD or DFA. However, I'm pleased with the changes they've made to RtB. Different strokes for different folks.

[Broskee]

it is never a dps increase, in any situation whatsoever.

If you're energy starved at any point, then you should reroll for a buff(or two) that increases the pace of your ration. Those buffs are jolly roger, broadsides, and buried treasure.

I don't know, blade flurry reduces 20% energy regen, and as we know, less energy = less abilities. White damage becomes more valuable because of this, therefore making the attack speed from SnD more valuable than fishing for buried treasure for the energy regen.

Of course, pure speculation.

[Sephiroso]

I don't know, blade flurry reduces 20% energy regen, and as we know, less energy = less abilities. White damage becomes more valuable because of this, therefore making the attack speed from SnD more valuable than fishing for buried treasure for the energy regen.

Of course, pure speculation.

Of course, pure speculation that would be wrong.

[Emophia]

A level 100 talent should never be a damage loss, end off.

It's just silly and makes it a waste of space, move it to level 15 or something, or remove it from the game altogether.

[Wow]

A level 100 talent should never be a damage loss, end off.

I agree but I don't see a way to fix snd without making it 100% mandatory.

[Kazzai]

Post deleted

[pkm]

I don't know, blade flurry reduces 20% energy regen, and as we know, less energy = less abilities. White damage becomes more valuable because of this, therefore making the attack speed from SnD more valuable than fishing for buried treasure for the energy regen.

Of course, pure speculation.

White damage stopped becoming important years ago m8. Still thinking about the cata days heh.

[shaunika123]

A level 100 talent should never be a damage loss, end off.

It's just silly and makes it a waste of space, move it to level 15 or something, or remove it from the game altogether.

does it ultimately matter for endgame content which tier it's in? that's where it fits thematically so that's where it is.

the level 100 row is basically our worst one too, i'd rather it not take up space in any other row.

[RobertoCarlos]

level 100 talent row is trash. Death from above should be a aoe finisher for sub. Marked for death is good, but feels out of place. And well slice n dice is basically felblades rogue style.

[Deleted]

Rogue theorycrafter said that 35% of the time taking SnD would have been a dps increase over RtB. I believe it was Fierydemise (via twitter) You would never take a talent for it to have a -chance- to deal more damage; I was just saying there are instances where it would be a dps increase to do so.

35% of time its a dps increase on very short boss fights. On longer bossfights it evens out rather quickly once you get a decent roll(which doesnt take that long to be fair).

Its never going to be a dps increase on raid-bossfights

[Deleted]

The 100 talents are too repetative, we have only 1 talent per spec that is different and we both have the MfD and DfA which are kinda okay points but not at level 100, they lack any swagger and don't feel too special. Don't fix too much either.

[Emophia]

the level 100 row is basically our worst one too, i'd rather it not take up space in any other row.

You're right in that the level 100 tier is certified trash.

But that still doesn't justify a dps decrease being there.

[Deleted]

You're right in that the level 100 tier is certified trash.

But that still doesn't justify a dps decrease being there.

MfD has some insane damage increasing situations though. Even though they arent happening that often

[shaunika123]

MfD has some insane damage increasing situations though. Even though they arent happening that often

MfD is great, but it's still slightly behind of DFA in strict ST fights, it's way ahead when you roll true bearing tho.