Ret Paladin 7.0.3 DPS comparison

[Joker12489]

This thread makes me depressed about playing a paladin. It's just pure negativity. I am enjoying my ret pally but now i am afraid of not finding a guild that will want one....

[marinos]

This thread makes me depressed about playing a paladin. It's just pure negativity. I am enjoying my ret pally but now i am afraid of not finding a guild that will want one....

For up to HC ret is ok,middle of the pack on single target,worse on aoe ( depends on the skill of the rest of your raid ). If you plan on doing mythic then ret doesnt seem to have a spot.

[Joker12489]

For up to HC ret is ok,middle of the pack on single target,worse on aoe ( depends on the skill of the rest of your raid ). If you plan on doing mythic then ret doesnt seem to have a spot.

I plan to do normal raiding, and lots of PVP.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

No.
Ret is okay like always. It has its flaws but when was this different except for the one week of 3.0?

With the additional 2 new melees available, reduced camera distance and the hate on melee in general (4-6 melee in raids is ideal) you have to be damn sure that ret is going to as competetive as the other melee or a bit stronger since they dont have 2 dps specs and weak raid tools. There's 9 classes that can be melee now, in total 13specs, if you're a ret you have ONE spec to get a raid spot with. Warrior and DK has two, Rogue 3. DH is a new class and bound to be overtuned so ppl will play it. Feral Druid, Enh Shaman and Surv Hunter can jump into their ranged spec(s) if they turn out bad on some encounters. Ret and Windwalker is in a very fragile spot, they dont do anything special (or bring special utility) and just about everyone else does.

[Deleted]

With the additional 2 new melees available, reduced camera distance and the hate on melee in general (4-6 melee in raids is ideal) you have to be damn sure that ret is going to as competetive as the other melee or a bit stronger since they dont have 2 dps specs and weak raid tools. There's 9 classes that can be melee now, in total 13specs, if you're a ret you have ONE spec to get a raid spot with. Warrior and DK has two, Rogue 3. DH is a new class and bound to be overtuned so ppl will play it. Feral Druid, Enh Shaman and Surv Hunter can jump into their ranged spec(s) if they turn out bad on some encounters. Ret and Windwalker is in a very fragile spot, they dont do anything special (or bring special utility) and just about everyone else does.

Sounds like: Be sure our numbers are right or be the best player in your raid and if not, don't play ret.

[Morally Grey Storm]

No.
Ret is okay like always. It has its flaws but when was this different except for the one week of 3.0?

for dungeons? Most probably.
For casul Dragonslaying? Possibly.
for random BG heroics?) Maybe.

And what about pushing WFirsts? What about progress?
What about high-rating Arena?
What about RBGs?

What about tons of bugs and glitches yet to be even aknowledged by bzzd?
What about over-vulnerability to dispels?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Sounds like: Be sure our numbers are right or be the best player in your raid and if not, don't play ret.

As it's always going to be: Don't be last or give a reason to be swapped.
OR: Be as high as you can and give additional reasons to NOT be swapped.

Utility helps you not being swapped, biggest being a solid raid CD.
Ret has lost their Raid CD and their utility has been reduced (a lot).
Even if by some miracle ret gets tuned to "match" Warrior or DK numbers (which it won't because Warrior and DK have strong niches where rets don't) the Warriors and DKs still bring more valued raid utility.

[marinos]

No.
Ret is okay like always. It has its flaws but when was this different except for the one week of 3.0?

Ofc ret is ok,but the problem is that it's ok for trivial content like normal/hc raids.

[Deleted]

And what about pushing WFirsts? What about progress?

"Ret is exactly were were we want him to be. You do have the option to go Holy or prot if you don´t like the retribution play style"

What about high-rating Arena?

"Ret is exactly were were we want him to be. You do have the option to go Holy or prot if you don´t like the retribution play style"

What about RBGs?

"Ret is exactly were were we want him to be. You do have the option to go Holy or prot if you don´t like the retribution play style"

What about tons of bugs and glitches yet to be even aknowledged by bzzd?

"We are aware."

What about over-vulnerability to dispels?

"We want classes to have certain strengths and weaknesses."

Utility helps you not being swapped, biggest being a solid raid CD.
Ret has lost their Raid CD and their utility has been reduced (a lot).
Even if by some miracle ret gets tuned to "match" Warrior or DK numbers (which it won't because Warrior and DK have strong niches where rets don't) the Warriors and DKs still bring more valued raid utility.

They only took the bland and uninteresting stuff and we must be one of the top performing specs cuz:

In Legion there is now room to add interesting utility, especially for specs that feel like they don't bring much beyond their throughput.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What if your class doesn't bring throughput, utility or a niche to shine in?

[Deleted]

Then you have a ret paladin and blizzard being absolutely fine with it.

[Neldarie]

No.
Ret is okay like always. It has its flaws but when was this different except for the one week of 3.0?

You haven't seen any content, what are you talking about?

[Deleted]

I guess for Qwayne84 in particular, theres more recent charts in the general discussion forum. Paladin is the worst DPS class. Notice, not spec.

Unless you have a good standing with your guild, theres not gonna be spots for Ret on Mythic unless Blizz decide to buff the blessings of wisdom.
So... no, its not ok and like always. You don't get one of 5 melee spots by beeing the worst DPS class in the game and not have something to make up for it.

With that said, those are still not final numbers, so fingers crossed for better ones.

[OrcsRLame]

I guess for Qwayne84 in particular, theres more recent charts in the general discussion forum. Paladin is the worst DPS class. Notice, not spec.

Unless you have a good standing with your guild, theres not gonna be spots for Ret on Mythic unless Blizz decide to buff the blessings of wisdom.
So... no, its not ok and like always. You don't get one of 5 melee spots by beeing the worst DPS class in the game and not have something to make up for it.

With that said, those are still not final numbers, so fingers crossed for better ones.

As much as some people may not like it, mathematically, if you were to put 3 GBoMs on the highest dps specs, ret rises to the second best melee class, only behind rogue and just above DH. That's assuming GBoM is not already calculated in somehow, which I doubt it is if things like legendaries haven't even been touched yet.

Once again, it seems like our main issues are our dps being penalized for GBoM and rogues just being far and away the best melee for virtually every situation. At current tuning, there's a small chance we'll see a ret in a world first, but you can be sure we'll see 3 rogues in every kill.

Edit: What I said about GBoM may not be accurate. Awaiting further clarification from one of the simcraft guys.

[marinos]

GBoM dmg is pathetic and 100% rng. Blessings aint going to guarantee a raid spot for ret, you are better bringing a melee that does a lot more dmg. Really if nothing changes till the raids open ret is a dead weight to a raid group.

[OrcsRLame]

So with the current sim profiles that everyone is discussing, ret's raw dps before GBoM is 219,506, which puts us just above Frost DK and one of the lowest overall specs in the game. Self buffed with GBoM would put us at 226,091 dps, 2 places higher than before. GBoM on 3 ret paladins would put us at 239,261, which puts us just above DKs and enhancement shamans concerning other melee. Absolute best case scenario would be GBoM on 3 outlaw rogues that all get good RNG, and that would put us at 246,547 dps, which is still below most of the other melee, monk, DH, hunter, feral and rogue. A more realistic scenario would be 3 GBoMs on 3 classes that do more or less as much as DHs, which puts us at 243,069 dps. Still better than DKs and shamans, but firmly in the bottom half of melee specs.

[Deleted]

As much as some people may not like it, mathematically, if you were to put 3 GBoMs on the highest dps specs, ret rises to the second best melee class, only behind rogue and just above DH. That's assuming GBoM is not already calculated in somehow, which I doubt it is if things like legendaries haven't even been touched yet.

Once again, it seems like our main issues are our dps being penalized for GBoM and rogues just being far and away the best melee for virtually every situation. At current tuning, there's a small chance we'll see a ret in a world first, but you can be sure we'll see 3 rogues in every kill.

Edit: What I said about GBoM may not be accurate. Awaiting further clarification from one of the simcraft guys.

I was gonna say... You are assuming that GBoM is not factored in already.

But based on what its doing on live... it's quite often much less than 9% of your damage. Wich is just lame.

Before you diss shamans remember to factor in their windfury aswell. Scales the same way Might does. You just don't have control over who it goes to though.

Btw, did you actually sim these things or are you assuming flat damage values? The one i was talking about is here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gion-DPS/page2

[OrcsRLame]

I was gonna say... You are assuming that GBoM is not factored in already.

But based on what its doing on live... it's quite often much less than 9% of your damage. Wich is just lame.

Before you diss shamans remember to factor in their windfury aswell. Scales the same way Might does. You just don't have control over who it goes to.

Btw, did you actually sim these things or are you assuming flat damage values?

I didn't sim a thing. Just going off the sim profiles used in this thread. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gion-DPS/page2

And I know GBoM is often less than 9% of your overall damage. It's mathematically 3% increased damage on the buffed player. There's countless reasons why that won't come out to exactly 9% damage for the paladin. There's a lot of variance both in number of procs and the overall damage of the abilities that proc it. If you buff 3 people with GBoM, and each one of those people is doing 100,000 dps, than over 100 billion pulls, GBoM will contribute on average 9,000 dps. There will however be peaks and valleys. Also should go without saying, but the caliber of the buffed player matters a lot. Theoretically, if you buff people that are doing significantly more damage than you, then GBoM should be more than 9% of your dps. If the buffed players are doing less than you, it will do less. There could also be some bugs with GBoM that have yet to be worked out.

[Deleted]

Not quite sure rets gonna be allowed to use all their blessings as might specially during progression... Kinda sad we dont have any interaction with our blessings midfight so we could swap em a bit on various roles and players accordingly.

[marinos]

I didn't sim a thing. Just going off the sim profiles used in this thread. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gion-DPS/page2

And I know GBoM is often less than 9% of your overall damage. It's mathematically 3% increased damage on the buffed player. There's countless reasons why that won't come out to exactly 9% damage for the paladin. There's a lot of variance both in number of procs and the overall damage of the abilities that proc it. If you buff 3 people with GBoM, and each one of those people is doing 100,000 dps, than over 100 billion pulls, GBoM will contribute on average 9,000 dps. There will however be peaks and valleys. Also should go without saying, but the caliber of the buffed player matters a lot. Theoretically, if you buff people that are doing significantly more damage than you, then GBoM should be more than 9% of your dps. If the buffed players are doing less than you, it will do less. There could also be some bugs with GBoM that have yet to be worked out.

In that sim,is stormlash dmg attributed to the shaman?