Why are shamans terrible now?

[Deleted]

I dont like the current version of Enha either. Which is why i wont be online on him before legion. Keeping tracking 3 buffs and no CDs just dont please me.
Will wait and see if i need to switch it out in legion after 10years of Enha!

[Okacz]

I dont like the current version of Enha either. Which is why i wont be online on him before legion. Keeping tracking 3 buffs and no CDs just dont please me.
Will wait and see if i need to switch it out in legion after 10years of Enha!

Unless I'm wrong, you can totally have it your way. By 3 buffs you probably mean Flametongue, Frostbrand and Boulderfist - you can just not take FB, and BF is pretty much self-sustaining - it deals heavy damage and generates Maelstrom, so it's hard to forget that it exists. So that's 1 buff to keep track of. And no CDs - Feral Spirits is a CD, and you can take Ascendance for an additional CD (sucks that it's not baseline, but what can a man do).

[Deleted]

Enhancement is amazing. "Makes me want to main it" amazing. Restoration is solid as always.

- - - Updated - - -



That's why WeakAuras exist.

Because that changed to fact you need to keep up 3 buffs and dont have any CDs beside feral spirits? Great comment!! -_-

- - - Updated - - -

Unless I'm wrong, you can totally have it your way. By 3 buffs you probably mean Flametongue, Frostbrand and Boulderfist - you can just not take FB, and BF is pretty much self-sustaining - it deals heavy damage and generates Maelstrom, so it's hard to forget that it exists. So that's 1 buff to keep track of. And no CDs - Feral Spirits is a CD, and you can take Ascendance for an additional CD (sucks that it's not baseline, but what can a man do).

True, but it will result in a DPS loss as for now. Will see when legion launches

[Okacz]

True, but it will result in a DPS loss as for now. Will see when legion launches

Hopefully. Enhancement talent tree is one of the best, but also one of the most imbalanced now. Since the talents are supposed to be equal, and we are balanced around level 110, hopefully they will be. I'd rather not be forced to take something else than Ascendance, or never have a chance to use Sundering effectively.

[miffy23]

Hopefully. Enhancement talent tree is one of the best, but also one of the most imbalanced now. Since the talents are supposed to be equal, and we are balanced around level 110, hopefully they will be. I'd rather not be forced to take something else than Ascendance, or never have a chance to use Sundering effectively.

Sundering and Earthen Spike are - at this point in time - very unlikely to be viable talents for Emerald Nightmare at the very least.
Ascendance will have its uses on some fights for sure.

[Hermitxd]

Because that changed to fact you need to keep up 3 buffs and dont have any CDs beside feral spirits? Great comment!! -_-

- - - Updated - - -



True, but it will result in a DPS loss as for now. Will see when legion launches

We're talking about Hailstorm here right? Because frostbrand is baseline?

If so, I read this today

wordup8341 point1 day ago <--- reddit
Swiftness is preferred because the Maelstrom input to maintain Hailstorm + the Maelstrom/extra CL casts & CS ticks lost from not having Swiftness add up so that at 4-5~ targets Hailstorm falls behind.
Windsong could easily have its uses on high priority burst especially coupled with Doom Winds, Earthen Spike however is just not worth it at all right now, it provides less benefit than Landslide does up front and it has a cooldown so suffers from terrible uptime.


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ly_dps/d6nmxd0


Edit, NVM this is only for sustained AoE cleave.

[miffy23]

It really doesn't feel like "keeping 3 buffs up". At all.

[marinos]

You shouldnt have to rely on a add on to play your class effectively it's bad design if thats the case.

I spent the last few days levelling my Shammy and I have to admit im abit disappointed int he class as a whole, Ele feels weak as hell and doesnt proc often enough for my likes with lavaburst & Enh feels like a clusterfuck of a mess I have no idea how to even play this spec and it annoys me.

The only bad design is the one of the blizz UI. Enha is perfectly fine. In reality you only have to keep up 2 buffs, flametongue and hailstorm, since you will be using boulderfist on cd most of the times.

[Deleted]

To be honest, talents should be picked for different situations, where you can get better results at certain thing you are about to do. For now, we can't pick whatever sets of talents we want, because we would be maelstrom starved for one, and for 2nd we will almost overflow. If you gonna try to use overcharge and Earthen Spike and Hailstrom at the same time -> I wish you good luck. That's this famous best talent tree in the game? Try to use Windsong with Ancestral Swift, Emp Stormlash, wathever on AoE tree and Landslide or Ascendance. Have fun spamming +5 lava lashes in a row to dump maelstrom when you use Spirit Wolves. Add Doom Winds to spam even more. It does feel clunky, but only with certain talent setup, but why should I pick default set to feel the flow? I hate Tempest as well, why on earth should I use the same ability 3 times in a row, sometimes more with "lucky" proc. This lucky proc fuk you sideways. You need 80 maelstrom, but you are at around 10. Always hate Ascendance for Elemental shaman. 10+ lava bursts in a row. I've never been a person who continously blame blizzard, but this is weird mechanic.

Another problem with Enha is that it's melee spec. You shouldn't have more than 5 for mythic (13 total melee specialisations in the game atm). You have 3 options :

1. Dont give a damn about your melee heavy guild and if you are an old guildie you will get a spot anyway.
2. You are the guild master.
3. You are insane and others are not so much.

[Rizendragon]

What do you dislike about DK? My plan was to have Shaman as an alt, and DK as main, since both Frost and Unholy feel amazing to me, and I've heard Blood is great as well. What are the problems?

When they removed some of the flavor some of the gameplay that I enjoyed went with it. I liked having the different runes and gaming the system. Not having a choice of rune regen talents is a related issue with that. I don't like that Frostscythe doesn't feel worth it, and not really being able to customize your playstyle and remain viable is slightly annoying. I feel like Ret and Enh play more like a DK used to now...

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest, talents should be picked for different situations, where you can get better results at certain thing you are about to do. For now, we can't pick whatever sets of talents we want, because we would be maelstrom starved for one, and for 2nd we will almost overflow. If you gonna try to use overcharge and Earthen Spike and Hailstrom at the same time -> I wish you good luck. That's this famous best talent tree in the game? Try to use Windsong with Ancestral Swift, Emp Stormlash, wathever on AoE tree and Landslide or Ascendance. Have fun spamming +5 lava lashes in a row to dump maelstrom when you use Spirit Wolves. Add Doom Winds to spam even more. It does feel clunky, but only with certain talent setup, but why should I pick default set to feel the flow? I hate Tempest as well, why on earth should I use the same ability 3 times in a row, sometimes more with "lucky" proc. This lucky proc fuk you sideways. You need 80 maelstrom, but you are at around 10. Always hate Ascendance for Elemental shaman. 10+ lava bursts in a row. I've never been a person who continously blame blizzard, but this is weird mechanic.

Another problem with Enha is that it's melee spec. You shouldn't have more than 5 for mythic (13 total melee specialisations in the game atm). You have 3 options :

1. Dont give a damn about your melee heavy guild and if you are an old guildie you will get a spot anyway.
2. You are the guild master.
3. You are insane and others are not so much.

What's so wrong with this spec? http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#Empe it flows quite well and you don't end up in "bleed" situations that often. Managing Maelstrom really isn't that hard...

[Darleth]

You shouldnt have to rely on a add on to play your class effectively it's bad design if thats the case.

I spent the last few days levelling my Shammy and I have to admit im abit disappointed int he class as a whole, Ele feels weak as hell and doesnt proc often enough for my likes with lavaburst & Enh feels like a clusterfuck of a mess I have no idea how to even play this spec and it annoys me.

Then you're doing something very wrong, as every spec and class in the game is pretty straightforward now.
Enhancement is one of the easiest to learn and hard to master specs though. Also, you absolutely dont need addons to play the spec to a maximum, if you like watching your buffbar all the time, thats your choice. I did that during Alpha/Beta testing and had absolutely no trouble playing without Addons at all. It's not badly designed, its the Interface itself that is BADLY designed in that regard. Newer games actually show most buffs on you in the middle for exactly that reason: making it easier to keep track of them.

Because that changed to fact you need to keep up 3 buffs and dont have any CDs beside feral spirits? Great comment!! -_-

What is the difference between keeping 3 buffs (or 2 for that matter) up?
Lets look back at every Enhancement Shaman version we had:

Flame Shock - Oh wow, its a dot that we have to keep up
Searing Totem - Oh hey, another dot we have to keep up

Looking at Legion Enhancement:
Flametongue - Huh, that thing is a selfbuffed dot-effect... replaces Flame Shock and/or Searing Totem for that matter
Frostbrand (Hailstorm) - Oh hey, another selfbuffed dot effect. See above.
Landslide / Boulderfist - A buff, that has a 100% uptime... there isn't a whole lot of managing here.

As you can see, literally NOTHING has changed, besides that our dots are now SELFBUFFED. So I dont really see the point in your arguments.

What's so wrong with this spec? http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#Empe it flows quite well and you don't end up in "bleed" situations that often. Managing Maelstrom really isn't that hard...

Its just Uberpwn spewing around a whole lot of missinformation, because he doesn't like the playstyle. Had this discussion with him already in the huge Enhancement Shaman Thread.
FYI: Hot Hands isn't really good.

[Deleted]

I just want to share my own opinion, that's not so bad for forum activity. I already re-rolled for Boomkin, cause I feel I let my guild down with melee spec. Maybe not everything is right in my post but I really wanted to main enhancement in Legion, but no matter how hard I try I can't enjoy it. I was ok with filler spell that you can spam, one after another, but there are 3 spells that I have to "spam" too often. That's Stormstrike with Tempest, Lava Lash with Hot Hand and Windsong (a bit less with Boulderfist) and Rockbiter. Boulderfist has 2 charges on really low cooldown. I love WotLK, Cata and MoP enhancement (fire nova a bit meh) but I hate EotE kind of playstyle. Abiities doesn't feel powerful when you have to use them 3 times in a row.

That's only my opinion, that's it. Sorry if I treated you with some missinformation, since most of my posts contains raw feelings. I feel talents are cool in theory, but you cannot connect them freely. There is default set, and you can change 1, at most 2 talents to still feel the flow. If you use too many Maelstrom spenders you will not be able to use them properly. Also active ones yelds less dps. Hard things -> No reward. I would say punishment instead.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

they need to tune up the other top teir talents, i prefer hot hands gameplay but rockbiter does so little damage its laughable, you do crap dmg with rockbiter/crap initial dmg with flametongue and frostbrand, ascendence relies almost entirely on procs to actually be worth taking which is very poor design if you burst you shouldnt need rng to determine how effective you are

[EbullientPrism]

You guys shouldn't complain about a class because you're too lazy to learn it. Boulderfist is just part of the rotation. So, that means poor you has too look at hailstorm and flame tongue and make sure they are up. It's literally two buffs that are just part of your normal priority rotation anyways. It's super easy. You don't need an add-on. Everyone complains about the "pruning", but oh flametongue and hailstorm are too hard. The class looks great right now, and Legion isn't even out. That's when the class really fills out. So save your complaints till then.

If you don't like the play style personally then that's fine! Doesn't mean the class is terrible. It just means it doesn't fit how you like to play. Find a class you like, and don't complain about a solid one.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

no one is complaining about it being hard... if they are well...but its just not fun gameplay from a pvp perspective pve its fine and managable but in pvp when most of your abilities hit like a wet noodle just to maintain a buff? the end result of having said buffs up doesnt do enough short term to make them feel meaningful in pvp when you need to do a lot of dmg now instead of later, we have had most expansions playing as a fast gcd locked melee but now the talents that support being gcd locked are weaker and keeping yourself gcd locked feels punishing if you use the boulderfist, which its supposed to be sure but it is still the strongest of the three talents, i will have less issues with it if they make the other teir 1 talents on par with bf

[Darleth]

I just want to share my own opinion, that's not so bad for forum activity. I already re-rolled for Boomkin, cause I feel I let my guild down with melee spec. Maybe not everything is right in my post but I really wanted to main enhancement in Legion, but no matter how hard I try I can't enjoy it. I was ok with filler spell that you can spam, one after another, but there are 3 spells that I have to "spam" too often. That's Stormstrike with Tempest, Lava Lash with Hot Hand and Windsong (a bit less with Boulderfist) and Rockbiter. Boulderfist has 2 charges on really low cooldown. I love WotLK, Cata and MoP enhancement (fire nova a bit meh) but I hate EotE kind of playstyle. Abiities doesn't feel powerful when you have to use them 3 times in a row.

That's only my opinion, that's it. Sorry if I treated you with some missinformation, since most of my posts contains raw feelings. I feel talents are cool in theory, but you cannot connect them freely. There is default set, and you can change 1, at most 2 talents to still feel the flow. If you use too many Maelstrom spenders you will not be able to use them properly. Also active ones yelds less dps. Hard things -> No reward. I would say punishment instead.

I need to apologize if I attacked you personally. I woke up with a bad mood, so sorry if you felt attacked by my statement regarding your post.
Regarding the talent choices: You're not forced to play with tempest - Emp Stormlash is the choice for you if you dont want another extra button to press and I'm sure you'll be fine if you do so (I have no current numbers on this; I have to ask Wordup about this to confirm; so take this statement with a grain of salt). About Hot Hand and Windsong: thats something I understand, as it does play very different compared to Boulderfist.

Also, you're right that some of the actives need buffs; I think in our last discussion I said the same thing: they need to change some of them to make them more viable choices; Sundering for example only has uses in Burst AoE fights, otherwise its not really worth it.

Again: you dont like the playstyle and its fine. It's not for everyone. You just somehow make it sound like the class is completely trash because of your feelings, while this isn't true; at least thats what I sometimes get out of your posts.

no one is complaining about it being hard... if they are well...but its just not fun gameplay from a pvp perspective pve its fine and managable but in pvp when most of your abilities hit like a wet noodle just to maintain a buff? the end result of having said buffs up doesnt do enough short term to make them feel meaningful in pvp when you need to do a lot of dmg now instead of later, we have had most expansions playing as a fast gcd locked melee but now the talents that support being gcd locked are weaker and keeping yourself gcd locked feels punishing if you use the boulderfist, which its supposed to be sure but it is still the strongest of the three talents, i will have less issues with it if they make the other teir 1 talents on par with bf

I agree that in PvP it doesn't work as well as in PvE. They need to do something there and it's the only reason why I'll stick to my arms warrior or even demon hunter for PvPing, as both classes have better uses in a pvp situation, which makes me quite sad personally.

[Deleted]

Don't worry, after one day I sometimes realise my arguments comes right from my ass instead of brain. I'm crying too much, and now I feel bad, hate when people overdue with it, and I just do the same. If we will be a bit less melee heavy I will try again with my shammy, it's like neverending thirst to play my long time main.

I found emp. stormlash much better than tempest, but then I need to spend more casts on Lava Lash, so I think I need to try find the next talent to make better synergy. More like Boulderfist, Hailstorm, Emp. Stormlash, Crashing Storm, Landslide? Earthen Spike very meh, Ascendance situational but without big spenders I may easly find myself overflowing/spam Lava Lash every 3 minutes. Not that bad tho I think. Have to make some research

[ehxy]

10yrs from now well after you have completed grade 3 you'll look back at this and laugh at how bad your writing is because what you just said was gibberish.

P.S. you mommy loves you

[Rizendragon]

Then you're doing something very wrong, as every spec and class in the game is pretty straightforward now.
Enhancement is one of the easiest to learn and hard to master specs though. Also, you absolutely dont need addons to play the spec to a maximum, if you like watching your buffbar all the time, thats your choice. I did that during Alpha/Beta testing and had absolutely no trouble playing without Addons at all. It's not badly designed, its the Interface itself that is BADLY designed in that regard. Newer games actually show most buffs on you in the middle for exactly that reason: making it easier to keep track of them.

The default UI has added a self "nameplate" in the center of the screen that is useful for this exact reason. It makes it much easier to track buffs.

Its just Uberpwn spewing around a whole lot of missinformation, because he doesn't like the playstyle. Had this discussion with him already in the huge Enhancement Shaman Thread.
FYI: Hot Hands isn't really good.

Hmm... Is this just atm or is this at 110 as well? I was playing on the PTR and saw a huge discussion regarding the topic and the consensus was that HH was the best in that tier. I was thinking that HH would be best until we got to high haste levels where BF would take over because of the CD reduction haste gives now.

[Arachnofiend]

Boulderfist has been far and away the superior talent since it's inception. You may have been looking at a discussion on the legendaries; several of them disproportionately increase DPS for Hot Hand compared to the other two talents. Which is unfortunate, because the fact that Hot Hand is so good with the legendaries equipped is likely why it's such a crappy talent right now.