BC Nostalgia Hype-and-Switch, Reloaded?

[Hotmail]

As far as Garrisons, LFR and loot RNG goes... Legion was going to build on WoD, either way. You don't implement new game systems and UIs unless they're also going to transfer over in the sequel/expansion.

In the end, calling the whole thing a Hype-and-Switch says more about OP's lack of self-control than it does about the integrity of Legion's content.

[SherriMayim]

Honestly Garrisons weren't the problem. I found Garrisons to be TONS of fun. The problem was that there wasn't enough content to do OUTSIDE Garrisons.

The Naval Addition should have sent you out on Naval Missions, where you could pilot the ship ala Assassin's Creed Black Flag. Maybe even a Naval Style PVP element where you join a Random BG, and the game is destroying the opposing team's ships either through cannons, or running over and killing reinforcements etc.

The old Garrison Mission System is great, but it needed a tweak.

It should have offered the option to go do that mission with your followers, or just let them do it, allowing you a bit more freedom to go out into the world (maybe with an increased reward or increased success rate etc.)

The whole 'Go to this place, go kill stuff, do 1 invasion this week.' Was boring at best. It quickly got old, however I'll be soloing it later for the completion achievements I missed (Never did get the Goren to invade my garrison :/ )

I haven't played Legion Beta, so I'm not sure, but from what I have seen there's a lot more emphasis of going out into the world, and bringing your followers (Akama <3) with you!

[Deleted]

agreed. damn rose tinted glasses strike again.

Always the fucking rose tinted glasses comment, you guys are pathetic. TBC is a much better game than retail wow for a MMORPG player. Legion will be nothing like tbc, they went with the TBC nostalgia hype in wod aswell and we all saw how that worked out. Legion will probably be alot better than wod but the design philosophy nowdays prevents it from being better than vanilla/tbc/wotlk.

[Deleted]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Honestly bro you are like nr. 50 in the last two weeks that write thread like this.

Instead of doing some research about ANYTHING. You conclude a lot of stuff based on what the worst whiners on, most likely, this forum has said.

I dont even want to waste my time trying to correct you if you dont want to even try and look up facts before posting a thread about it.

Frankly i think these threads should be instalocked.

[Ehrenpanzer]

ohhh boy... time to rip this apart...

1. bc nostalgia? ehh... only thing from "BC" is illidan, and its good to see him get his story brought back, cause BC BUTCHERED his story...

2. bc was not wow's glory days, if anything wotlk is the glory days, bc was still a very much broken game...

3. yeah? illidan, a guy who we have wanted redeemed for 9 years, burning legion a villian we have been begging to have back for 9 years, demon hunters, a class we have been begging for 12 years, karazhan, a raid people have wanted to do more/see the crypts for 9 years

4. garrisons 2.0.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT AHAHAHAHAHAHAH ha.. you must be a heelvsbabyface fan..., endgame content that lasts a week? how so? lfr treadmill.... again how so!? w...classes i understand, but gear is becoming even cooler then before, were getting dungeon sets back, and rings with procs and on use effects

5. yes, they are very misplaced, why make a thread about "legion is a failure hype train bait and switch, btw i have not done any research on legion or played it at all in any way"

^And today in "What someone with the mentality of a 12 year old thinks".

1. yeah...only Illidan..and the Burning Legion..and demon hunters (but we can BE one this time instead of just killing them all)..oh, and Karazhan... so... as long as we dont include the rest of the list, sure, we can strawman that Illidan is the only nostalgia thing from BC and that everything else is totally new.....

2. Depends on your own personal definition of "glory days" and who you ask....

3. Wait.. didnt you JUST say in #1 that the only reused thing was Illidan? Then you use nostalgia to justify rehashed content? Brilliant.....

4. 50% sub losses during WoD should have been the nail in the fucking coffin of anything that remotely resembled facebook type gameplay, but you simply hide behind lame insults without providing any counter points.

5. Because game previews, content streaming, feature announcements and having a memory that's slightly better then a goldfish are all apparently foreign concepts to you.

Go back to your homework kid, this is a big boy thread....

[corebit]

For you and all the other people who seem to insist that I haven't played beta because I don't share a view with you.

https://twitter.com/MiniNuckels/stat...44303715561472 Here you go, happy now? The core of the class hall is in my eyes garrison 2.0, I'm sorry this doesn't line up with your vision of the game, deal with it.

If a mission table triggers you into thinking it's Garrison 2.0, then you're truly lost and we are wasting time explaining things to you. Go play something else then.

Other than the missions, there's almost nothing alike with Garrisons. You'll be spending 99% of the time actually doing stuff out in the world instead of AFKing in Garrisons and clicking missions. There's a reason people question if you even played the beta or not, because your ignorance on this matter whether intended or not is absolutely astounding for someone who professes to have played it.

[ssviolett]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Garrisons 2.0 - unfortunately yes. As for other things - well, man, this is WoW, it will never change fundamentally. But if you ask me, I've quite enjoyed from the Beta. I don't know how long I will play this time - a month or 2-3 months, but for this time I will have fun that's for sure.

[BetoClinn]

I don't see how people jump to defend garrisons 2.0 aka the mission tables in legion. It just doesn't add anything enjoyable to the game and it doesn't belong in a mmorpg. "Have this ability and this character drag it to that box and wait 8 hours" what? Why does this even exist. It's like having to solve a puzzle in the middle of your Tekken game to use a combo attack. I'm not playing a fighting game to solve a puzzle nor am I playing a mmoprg to play some "match this" game that takes HOURS of waiting (not even playing the game) complete. I find mission tables to be a boring chore that's completely mandatory towards character progression. Devs said something like it's only 3% of Legion which wouldn't matter because I knew as long as it gave artifact power or anything it the slightest that progresses your character then you would have to do deal with it.

Mission tables and followers had potential to be interesting. If the followers and the mission included you and put you in a scenario (like proving grounds) and grouped you up with followers to compete the mission and rewarded you afterwards. Basically dungeon - like experience with Npcs that give a different feel from solo questing. But no we get some cheap uninteresting mobile - game quality entertainment from mission tables.

Sure it's only maybe 10 minutes of game play throughout the day to drag and drop followers and gets missions rewards. But if I had a mission running overnight then I have to log in the next morning before work to throws some more in so when I come back they are done. At this point I'm logging in to do chores, not to enjoy the game

[SirCowdog]

1. bc nostalgia? ehh... only thing from "BC" is illidan, and its good to see him get his story brought back, cause BC BUTCHERED his story...

If you read the Warcraft book "Illidan" they retcon the living crap out of the BC story and explain why his actions and portrayal were so erratic. It's actually not a bad piece of background lore if you plan on playing Legion at all.

[enchiridion]

^And today in "What someone with the mentality of a 12 year old thinks".

1. yeah...only Illidan..and the Burning Legion..and demon hunters (but we can BE one this time instead of just killing them all)..oh, and Karazhan... so... as long as we dont include the rest of the list, sure, we can strawman that Illidan is the only nostalgia thing from BC and that everything else is totally new.....

2. Depends on your own personal definition of "glory days" and who you ask....

3. Wait.. didnt you JUST say in #1 that the only reused thing was Illidan? Then you use nostalgia to justify rehashed content? Brilliant.....

4. 50% sub losses during WoD should have been the nail in the fucking coffin of anything that remotely resembled facebook type gameplay, but you simply hide behind lame insults without providing any counter points.

5. Because game previews, content streaming, feature announcements and having a memory that's slightly better then a goldfish are all apparently foreign concepts to you.

Go back to your homework kid, this is a big boy thread....

You bring up strawman, so i assume you have knowledge of fallacies, yet your entire post is riddled with ad hominem attacks, why?

also, do me next My post

[Deleted]

Mission tables and followers had potential to be interesting. If the followers and the mission included you and put you in a scenario (like proving grounds) and grouped you up with followers to compete the mission and rewarded you afterwards. Basically dungeon - like experience with Npcs that give a different feel from solo questing. But no we get some cheap uninteresting mobile - game quality entertainment from mission tables.

The huge problem with a system like that would be: its cool the first time. funny the second time. god damn annoying the thrid - 500th time.

People jump to defend it simply because it isnt garrison 2.0. their isnt much content locked behind it, its way less tedious then garrisons were. you cant do it on 10+ alts since you dont get free order ressources.

And here is a shocker: some people like the mission tables. Yes people like different things, just as some like pet battles and some dont, some people like the garrison/order hall missions.

The bad thing in WoD was: you had to do it. so much stuff was gated behind it. and even after you done all the gated stuff the rewards were so good that you would have been a fool to not continue to do it.

In legion: part of your class campaign is gated behind it, so you have to do it too. but afterwards you are pretty good to just leave the table behind if you dont like it. The rewards are pretty much cut down, you get some rep, some gold (though not alot) some follower equipment, some AP out of it. their is also a weekly quest you can get from it which sends you too a mythic dungeon.

[Nuckels]

If a mission table triggers you into thinking it's Garrison 2.0, then you're truly lost and we are wasting time explaining things to you. Go play something else then.

Other than the missions, there's almost nothing alike with Garrisons. You'll be spending 99% of the time actually doing stuff out in the world instead of AFKing in Garrisons and clicking missions. There's a reason people question if you even played the beta or not, because your ignorance on this matter whether intended or not is absolutely astounding for someone who professes to have played it.

At what point did I ask anyone to convince me otherwise? I didn't. It's my view, you don't have to like it or not agree with it. Only thing I asked for was to prove me wrong how it is different as everyone just said it was without backing up why. Eitherway this is going nowhere, people have different opinions, news at 11.

[Varaben]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Fears of this type are really no different from the hype.

Class Halls are not Garrison 2.0. You're perpetuating a falsehood here and it needs to stop. It's nothing like garrisons. Does it borrow from the system? Sure. Can you make a bunch of money and get free gear? No.

LFR Treadmill: I'm not sure what this means.

Simplification: I don't see this true whatsoever. Remember your artifact brings new ability and functionality beyond just passive bonuses. To be fair, this isn't extensive. But the classes and specs I've played don't seem pruned or have less buttons or whatever. This is simply not true.

Etc...Is there other specific things? Etc. means you ran out of things to say.

Anyone buying into hype is wrong. Everything always looks great before it's released. That's because people attribute anything they want to it. No game ever lives up to hype, because hype isn't real. Legion won't live up to the hype, just like WoD didn't. But in hindsight, Legion does systemically have more things to do. Artifacts will take a while to finish and they are worth finishing. Legendaries are worth hunting for. Mythic dungeons provide increased challenge as the game continues. World quests are going to be useful as a replacement for things like garrisons and dailies.

I dunno, I think Legion really will be better than prior expansions, but we will know for sure in a few months once the release happens and the dust settles.

[FelPlague]

My point was more that technically it'd be garrison 2.0
And if you explain it REALLY REALLY vaguely to someone it might sound like it's the same.
The details, that is what matters. That is why Class Halls are totally different.

yeah, thing is they have 1 system that they share, and that system is drasticly differant

the class hall has the command table 2.0, but as i said, it is no where near garrison 2.0, thats like sayin wow is warcraft 4 because its the next game they made, and had the story, but thats it, the rest is drasticly differant

[enchiridion]

At what point did I ask anyone to convince me otherwise? I didn't. It's my view, you don't have to like it or not agree with it. Only thing I asked for was to prove me wrong how it is different as everyone just said it was without backing up why. Eitherway this is going nowhere, people have different opinions, news at 11.

the way it is different is in how compelling it is. Examples of this are: no profession anything, no rewards that you cant get better versions of out in the world (missions) no available bank/ah/mats vendor. Now sure how compelling something is is subjective, however when you compare the AP rewards to something like a world quest, yes you would do the mission but you arent rushing back to get the AP reward, as they are significantly lower. Yes there is a campaign, however this one sends you out to explore and leads to long quest chains, and quite frankly is more well defined story-wise and objective-wise, there were several people that didnt realize there WAS a garrison campaign until HFC released because it was just, difficult to recognize it from any other random quest.

Essentially the difference is garrisons gave you no reason to leave and class halls give you no reason to stay particularly long, the most you will see of order halls is during leveling otherwise it fits their original stated design goal for garrisons, (paraphrased) "something for you to log in to do even if you only have a few min" and the real rewards are out in the world.

[Konteil]

Always the fucking rose tinted glasses comment, you guys are pathetic. TBC is a much better game than retail wow for a MMORPG player. Legion will be nothing like tbc, they went with the TBC nostalgia hype in wod aswell and we all saw how that worked out. Legion will probably be alot better than wod but the design philosophy nowdays prevents it from being better than vanilla/tbc/wotlk.

release tbc was buggy and screwy in a lot of ways. the game play was good and there was a ton of stuff to do. but even then things were a grindfest as far as rep and dailies. wod had basically nothing to do other than raid and garrison crud. legion is so far a great game from what i have seen on beta and the gameplay is solid. there will be more stuff added as the xpac goes live. the game is solid and in a good place. stop comparing new content to legacy stuff and using fornd memories of something when it was new and shiny as justification as to why stuff that isnt live sucks. yes rose tinted glasses. after 12 years here i know the game and its ups and downs. i remember as well as anyone. im just staying objective.

- - - Updated - - -

i have a weird mind, dislexyia does that, but yeah, i dont get why people are calling class halls garrisons 2.0, because they are MUCH differant

now calling class halls "command table 2.0" sure, thats understandable, but garrisons.... come on

we might aswell start calling world of warcraft, warcraft 4,5,6,7,8,9,10, cause like come on, its the same game, just A MILLION things differant, but its still the same story so...

yes well common sense and all..... mwah hah hah

[Deleted]

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Yes, they are silly, cause there is no GARRISON 2.0.

[Demithio]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

I have not played the beta either, but trying to make Legion seem like the second coming of TBC is absurd. TBC and what WoW is now are almost completely two different games with two different game play experiences. They are contrasting, not comparable.

[enchiridion]

I have not played the beta either, but trying to make Legion seem like the second coming of TBC is absurd. TBC and what WoW is now are almost completely two different games with two different game play experiences. They are contrasting, not comparable.

This, i find it funny when people say "we miss x, y, and z about _____expansion" then turn around and say "oh the new expac is just trying to cash in on nostalgia" when really its prolly more like "hmmm....we have a lot of unhappy people on our hands, they want x,y,and z lets take the essence of those things and put it together"

[antelope591]

I don't see how people jump to defend garrisons 2.0 aka the mission tables in legion. It just doesn't add anything enjoyable to the game and it doesn't belong in a mmorpg. "Have this ability and this character drag it to that box and wait 8 hours" what? Why does this even exist. It's like having to solve a puzzle in the middle of your Tekken game to use a combo attack. I'm not playing a fighting game to solve a puzzle nor am I playing a mmoprg to play some "match this" game that takes HOURS of waiting (not even playing the game) complete. I find mission tables to be a boring chore that's completely mandatory towards character progression. Devs said something like it's only 3% of Legion which wouldn't matter because I knew as long as it gave artifact power or anything it the slightest that progresses your character then you would have to do deal with it.

Mission tables and followers had potential to be interesting. If the followers and the mission included you and put you in a scenario (like proving grounds) and grouped you up with followers to compete the mission and rewarded you afterwards. Basically dungeon - like experience with Npcs that give a different feel from solo questing. But no we get some cheap uninteresting mobile - game quality entertainment from mission tables.

Sure it's only maybe 10 minutes of game play throughout the day to drag and drop followers and gets missions rewards. But if I had a mission running overnight then I have to log in the next morning before work to throws some more in so when I come back they are done. At this point I'm logging in to do chores, not to enjoy the game

I agree. Mission tables are by far the worst feature in Legion. The only purpose they serve is to artificially increase the amount of time needed for the 3rd artifact relic slot. At least in WoD they were a key part of the game. In Legion, its basically Blizz being unable to let go of a failed concept since they spent so much time in it already.