BC Nostalgia Hype-and-Switch, Reloaded?

[SirBeef]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

You mean Warcraft 3.

[qqemokitty]

Re class changes: Less buttons does not equate simplification across the board. Some of the classes I have tried since the changes have interesting new mechanics and spell interactions with interesting buffs to maintain in new ways. Shadow Priest comes to mind specifically as a spec that has changed a lot and become vastly more complex and interesting, Enhancement Shaman has some cool new spell interactions, Unholy DK is incredibly fun and versatile with talents, Disc was completely overhauled and I hear it's fun though I haven't tried it. Fury warrior is off the chain fun right now. Resto druid is incredible right now, Balance much improved by the removal of the pendulum system.

Sometimes, less is more. I haven't tried other classes beyond what's mentioned above so I can't speak to those, but seriously. Pruning was not all bad.

[Protean]

ohhh boy... time to rip this apart...

1. bc nostalgia? ehh... only thing from "BC" is illidan, and its good to see him get his story brought back, cause BC BUTCHERED his story...

2. bc was not wow's glory days, if anything wotlk is the glory days, bc was still a very much broken game...

3. yeah? illidan, a guy who we have wanted redeemed for 9 years, burning legion a villian we have been begging to have back for 9 years, demon hunters, a class we have been begging for 12 years, karazhan, a raid people have wanted to do more/see the crypts for 9 years

4. garrisons 2.0.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT AHAHAHAHAHAHAH ha.. you must be a heelvsbabyface fan..., endgame content that lasts a week? how so? lfr treadmill.... again how so!? w...classes i understand, but gear is becoming even cooler then before, were getting dungeon sets back, and rings with procs and on use effects

5. yes, they are very misplaced, why make a thread about "legion is a failure hype train bait and switch, btw i have not done any research on legion or played it at all in any way"

You didn't rip anything apart, get over yourself.

You're a pidgeon who just knocked over the pieces in a game of chess and are now shitting all over the board.

[Raetary]

Go back to your homework kid, this is a big boy thread....

if you really wanna bash someone for writing childish, then don't write stuff like "big boy thread", it just lets you look as pathetic.
and stop calling everyone who writes childish a kid, not every "kid" has the mentality of a horny pigeon.

now, to clear this shit up, class halls and garrisons are NOT the same.
all of wod resolved around the garrison, the garrison had everything you needed already in it and thanks to it you did not have any reason to go out in the world.
tons of stuff was gated behind the command table too. you were also alone all the time unless you were in a group and that group member visits it.


class halls however, are not instanced prisons, and have no buildings, you have no reason to stay in your class hall for longer than 5 minutes because you are only going there to get some quests, artifact research, choosing artifact traits and send out some followers on missions for AP and a bit of gold.
you are not alone, the hall is filled with people that play the same class as you, and the command table doesn't gate shit except a couple of quests in your class campaign, after that the command table is nothing but addition to get more artifact power and gold.

if you played the beta and still feel the class halls are garrison copies, you are doing something completely wrong.

[Xires]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Classes are NOT simplified. Know what my Mage did in TBC? 5 stacks of scorch and then fireball....and that is IT.
Non-endgame content that lasts a week? You obviously haven't watched ANY of the Dev Q&A's or that wouldn't even be on the table.
Gear simplified? Like it was ever hard, lol
Your fears are misplaced and I'm sorry to say but your knowledge is also lacking.

- - - Updated - - -

For you and all the other people who seem to insist that I haven't played beta because I don't share a view with you.

https://twitter.com/MiniNuckels/stat...44303715561472 Here you go, happy now? The core of the class hall is in my eyes garrison 2.0, I'm sorry this doesn't line up with your vision of the game, deal with it.

Well then you are the only one. Because 99% of it is nothing like garrisons. Keep trying though, brah!

[Esotaric]

stormheim and highmountain looks like howling fjord and grizzly hills to me. not to mention the soundtrack associated with it has elements of wotlk.

hell. the broken isle are pretty much most of wc3 frozen throne. so blizz cannot screw this expansion up.

[Ringthane]

Actually I was in the friends and family alpha, so yes I did also get to play beta, still feels like a garrison to me you know.




Constructive, now is either one of you gonna tell me what is so different about class halls? Order hall resources? Or the followers, sorry I mean champions that you sent on missions that unlock stuff? It is garrisons 2.0, it is a updated version of garrisons with more ingame interraction.

Sure I can't build things and sure all my fellow class members will be in the same location, but the core is still there, followers and resources.

"Looks like a pump, feels like a sneaker."

Anyone remember that?

In other words, just because you call something a thing does not mean that's what it actually is. And if you want to talk about the core of a game's design being the same from expansion to expansion, then you have to call out every game ever, because each game genre shares the same core design. Go on - show me the FPS that isn't, at its core, a character going around shooting enemies with guns. Show me the RPG that isn't, at it's core, a character going around, doing odd jobs for the local populace, and gaining reputation, prestige, and loot for doing so.

[anon5123]

Garrisons 2.0

It's funny that even now, people are still parroting this shit, blissfully unaware that Order Halls are NOTHING like WoD garrisons.

"Oh noez, it has a mission table! GARRISON 2.0!!!!!!!11!!"

If they changed the table to an NPC with a blue ! over its head, nobody would be complaining.

You didn't rip anything apart, get over yourself.

You're a pidgeon who just knocked over the pieces in a game of chess and are now shitting all over the board.

I don't see you attempting to counter-argue any of his points so...

Pot, meet kettle.

[Halicia]

There's no money in pandering to vanilla/BC 'nostalgia', when the vast majority of current players didn't even play during those times.

So no... I don't think this expansion is pandering to nostalgia anymore than they're trying to cater to the 0.01% of hardcore worldfirst raiders or professional gamers.

[Nuckels]

"Looks like a pump, feels like a sneaker."

Anyone remember that?

In other words, just because you call something a thing does not mean that's what it actually is. And if you want to talk about the core of a game's design being the same from expansion to expansion, then you have to call out every game ever, because each game genre shares the same core design. Go on - show me the FPS that isn't, at its core, a character going around shooting enemies with guns. Show me the RPG that isn't, at it's core, a character going around, doing odd jobs for the local populace, and gaining reputation, prestige, and loot for doing so.

Were we on about WoW as a whole or garrisons as a whole? You are comparing apples to oranges here but I get the example you are trying to make. In my eyes this entire garrison shit should have been deleted and class halls are not any better but as I said thats my opinion and no one needs to share it.

[enchiridion]

Were we on about WoW as a whole or garrisons as a whole? You are comparing apples to oranges here but I get the example you are trying to make. In my eyes this entire garrison shit should have been deleted and class halls are not any better but as I said thats my opinion and no one needs to share it.

well the thing is you say its your opinion and challenge people to show you how these two are not the same, when its objectively shown that there are VAST differences in garrisons and order halls you ignore them. So while you say its your opinion, sometimes you have an opinionated statement(order halls arent better than garrisons)-which is ok. and sometimes you have a factually incorrect statement(order halls are rehashed garrisons, essentially the same)-which is NOT just your opinion.I dont think MOST here are trying to say "ZOMG YOU NEED TO LOVE ORDER HALLS OR YOU ARE A SCRUB" most seem to be saying "uh, no, order halls are VERY different from garrisons"

[Nuckels]

well the thing is you say its your opinion and challenge people to show you how its not, when its objectively shown that there are VAST differences in garrisons and order halls you ignore them. So while you say its your opinion, sometimes you have an opinionated statement(order halls arent better than garrisons)-which is ok. and sometimes you have a factually incorrect statement(order halls are rehashed garrisons, essentially the same)-which is NOT just your opinion.I dont think MOST here are trying to say "ZOMG YOU NEED TO LOVE ORDER HALLS OR YOU ARE A SCRUB" most seem to be saying "uh, no, order halls are VERY different from garrisons"

No I pointed out the fact that people told me I was wrong without anything to back that up and told them to back their statement up. I explained why I feel class halls are garrisons 2.0. That being said we are going in circles here.

[miffy23]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Yes, your fears are completely misplaced, as are your wildly inaccurate and baseless assumptions/assertions about Legion content.
Been in Alpha/Beta for half a year almost.

[enchiridion]

the way it is different is in how compelling it is. Examples of this are: no profession anything, no rewards that you cant get better versions of out in the world (missions) no available bank/ah/mats vendor. Now sure how compelling something is is subjective, however when you compare the AP rewards to something like a world quest, yes you would do the mission but you arent rushing back to get the AP reward, as they are significantly lower. Yes there is a campaign, however this one sends you out to explore and leads to long quest chains, and quite frankly is more well defined story-wise and objective-wise, there were several people that didnt realize there WAS a garrison campaign until HFC released because it was just, difficult to recognize it from any other random quest.

Essentially the difference is garrisons gave you no reason to leave and class halls give you no reason to stay particularly long, the most you will see of order halls is during leveling otherwise it fits their original stated design goal for garrisons, (paraphrased) "something for you to log in to do even if you only have a few min" and the real rewards are out in the world.

No I pointed out the fact that people told me I was wrong without anything to back that up and told them to back their statement up. I explained why I feel class halls are garrisons 2.0. That being said we are going in circles here.

Uhm, you completely ignored this post, so....is that not good enough evidence? i posted clearly and concisely what the differences are between the 2

[ryanmahaffe]

ohhh boy... time to rip this apart...

1. bc nostalgia? ehh... only thing from "BC" is illidan, and its good to see him get his story brought back, cause BC BUTCHERED his story...

2. bc was not wow's glory days, if anything wotlk is the glory days, bc was still a very much broken game...

3. yeah? illidan, a guy who we have wanted redeemed for 9 years, burning legion a villian we have been begging to have back for 9 years, demon hunters, a class we have been begging for 12 years, karazhan, a raid people have wanted to do more/see the crypts for 9 years

4. garrisons 2.0.... PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT AHAHAHAHAHAHAH ha.. you must be a heelvsbabyface fan..., endgame content that lasts a week? how so? lfr treadmill.... again how so!? w...classes i understand, but gear is becoming even cooler then before, were getting dungeon sets back, and rings with procs and on use effects

5. yes, they are very misplaced, why make a thread about "legion is a failure hype train bait and switch, btw i have not done any research on legion or played it at all in any way"

Actually no, at this point heelvsbabyface praised Legion, this guy must be a sodapoppin fan

[Nuckels]

Uhm, you completely ignored this post, so....is that not good enough evidence? i posted clearly and concisely what the differences are between the 2

When I pointed out people were telling me I was wrong without anything backing it up was before you made that post.. Anyway this really is so offtopic now its unreal, imma let it be so if you wanna continue this feel free to drop a PM.

[enchiridion]

When I pointed out people were telling me I was wrong without anything backing it up was before you made that post.. Anyway this really is so offtopic now its unreal, imma let it be so if you wanna continue this feel free to drop a PM.

Yes, which is why i made it, and yet you still seemed insistant that no one was willing to provide such an answer

[Deathquoi]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

Important part bolded. Yes your fears are misplaced.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I was in the friends and family alpha, so yes I did also get to play beta, still feels like a garrison to me you know.




Constructive, now is either one of you gonna tell me what is so different about class halls? Order hall resources? Or the followers, sorry I mean champions that you sent on missions that unlock stuff? It is garrisons 2.0, it is a updated version of garrisons with more ingame interraction.

Sure I can't build things and sure all my fellow class members will be in the same location, but the core is still there, followers and resources.

Airplanes are basically cars:

1) they have wheels
2) they have engines
3) they have brakes
4) they have steering systems

That is basically what you said about order halls vs garrisons.

[Sencha]

Since the Gamescom 7.1 news I have to say I have a Star Wars "bad feeling about this". They're playing to BC nostalgia again. Planning content that allows hyping things up like a return to WoW's glory days when the actual product may be nothing of the sort.

The pitch: "Legion: ILLIDAN! Burning Legion! Demon Hunters! Karazhan!"

Actual product: Garrisons 2.0, non-endgame content that lasts a week, LFR treadmill, classes and gear and game systems simplified ad absurdum, etc...

Are my fears misplaced? I've not played the beta.

No, you're right.

Legion will be a bigger flop than WoD in terms of subs after less than 3 months because of the reasons you mentioned.

[miffy23]

No, you're right.

Legion will be a bigger flop than WoD in terms of subs after less than 3 months because of the reasons you mentioned.

You mean the reasons that are nearly all nonsense and wrong?