Addons won't be able to access player position in 7.1

[anon5123]

Any addon that helps with boss abilities shouldn't function. Either you learn it or react based on visual/audio queues that are native to the encounter.

There are a LOT of different addon types that "help with boss abilities", so I'm assuming you're playing with 0 addons, then? Just default UI?

And even then, default UI has integrated so many things from addons like showing buffs/debuffs on allies, and boss health frames....so...yeah.

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Instead of making each class more "intuitive" bringing back old talent tree, resistance, hit rating and so on they remove use of addons to make encounters more difficult.. Priceless

I fail to see how bringing back broken talent trees and annoying stats has anything to do with nerfing the effectiveness of boss mod addons.

Nobody liked Resist gear. It took up bag space, made you do less DPS, and often cost a good deal to get it crafted. It felt like a chore.

Nobody liked hit rating. It didn't (visibly) increase your DPS, it didn't really do anything other than provide an arbitrary "minimum" of a certain stat to reach, and then have to fuck around with "oh, I got this new piece of gear, but I can't use it because it would drop me below hit cap", that wasn't fun that was obnoxious.

[markos82]

I fail to see how bringing back broken talent trees and annoying stats has anything to do with nerfing the effectiveness of boss mod addons.

Judging by when you made your account I can see why one would think like that. But closing the private realm that had few 100K players who loved that proves you wrong.....

[anon5123]

Judging by when you made your account I can see why one would think like that.

I've been playing since 2007.

Thanks for insulting me, though.

But closing the private realm that had few 100K players who loved that proves you wrong.....

So just because a handful of other people liked it, that means it's objectively "good" ?

and again, what the fuck does this have to do with anything

Please, explain to me the correlation between "boss mods can no longer track player position" and "bringing back old talent trees and hit rating"

explain to me how you made that connection

[ComputerNerd]

I'm not so sure I fully agree. Yes, perhaps they'll need to write couple of lines about it in a blog or forum post, but I think these Gamescom community interviews they've been doing are perfect for announcements and community Q&A - it's as close to 'live' community updates it gets. I like it a lot.

While I sympathize with addon authors who've put in time and effort - I also understand why Blizzard couldn't out the information earlier. And getting it one full patch (4-5 months) earlier is not really *that* bad. It's actually quite good.

I think the interview format works for some things, but I am not sure sure it works for everything.
And that is something I feel needs more description and detail than such a video can get across.
Especially one not focused on that subject.

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An addon displaying numbers is perfectly fine. Having an addon show you exactly where to stand makes whatever mechanic you're dealing with completely trivial. This is a great change so long as they make mechanics like Demonic Feedback manageable without a range indicator.

I agree.
Removing that functionality should not be done in isolation without consideration for why it become such an important feature.

[markos82]

So just because a handful of other people liked it, that means it's objectively "good" ?

and again, what the fuck does this have to do with anything

Please, explain to me the correlation between "boss mods can no longer track player position" and "bringing back old talent trees and hit rating"

explain to me how you made that connection

Handful, you have got to be joking?!? Handful isn't 400k players that are playing on a private realm, expansion that was current some 9 years ago....

It has to do anything, that are removing something from game every single fucking expansion or ability to do something, in this case addons that were a feature of this game since forever. If you havent played during Vanilla and TBC explaining you why resistance, hit rating, mp5.... gear was fucking amazing thing to have. Removing t he ability to track player position will do more harm than good, like every single thing they did so far.

[Deleted]

Good.

The mythic archimonde addon made it clear that it's no longer about who's a good player, but about who can write the most complex addons.

Like someone else said - just as long as they don't expect people to be spread exactly X yards apart in a small room....

[Sierra85]

Removing the ability to track player position will do more harm than good, like every single thing they did so far.

we won't know til we've tried it? if it means they can design some sort of different boss fights etc, whats the big deal?

[markos82]

we won't know til we've tried it? if it means they can design some sort of different boss fights etc, whats the big deal?

And that's the point. They have to change the way of designing the boss fight, if they don't wanna make players rage about wiping because they are 0.5ft closer than they are supposed to be. Point of addon is to help players but you can always chose not to use it if you want to have challenge during fight.....

[anon5123]

Handful, you have got to be joking?!? Handful isn't 400k players that are playing on a private realm, expansion that was current some 9 years ago....

400k is a handful compared to 6-8 million, yes

It has to do anything

So basically any time Blizzard makes a change you don't like, that's a reason to start whining and crying for them to bring back old, clunky stats and old, clunky talent trees

lolok

that are removing something from game every single fucking expansion or ability to do something, in this case addons that were a feature of this game since forever.

They're only removing the ability for addons to track player position

that's literally it

and here you are throwing a hissy fit as if the whole game is going down the shitter because of it

lol

If you havent played during Vanilla and TBC explaining you why resistance, hit rating, mp5.... gear was fucking amazing thing to have.

FYI I've played vanilla, up through all of BWL.

And I played through all of BC's raids while they were current.

So you can drop this whole "lol you never played back then, you don't know how good it really was!" bullshit. I experienced firsthand how clunky and shitty it was.

Hit rating was not "fucking amazing", it was tedious for reasons I explained earlier. Having to always fuck about with making sure you're "hit capped" was not fun or interesting, it was just a boring chore and prevented you from equipping new gear.

Resist gear was not "fucking amazing", it was tedious to carry around, made you do less dps/healing because it usually only had stam+resist on it, and you practically NEEDED this shit for some encounters. It was not fun having to farm resist gear for 25 people just to do a single encounter. It was tedious as all fuck.

I like older expansions, but I'm not completely fucking blinded by nostalgia like you seem to be.

[Wewlad]

Are you seriously expecting logic in a game about demons and orcs and all these stuff? Even if you do, abusing one's weakness in battle is a pretty logical thing; For example Gorefind needs souls to function, he runs out of souls and starts gathering some more, while he's doing that he becomes vulnerable because he's focusing on gathering souls and not on fighting you.

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You people seriously need to stop with this conspiracy theories.
Just because blizzard is doing what they feel is best for game, it doesn't mean they're trying to remove people from Mythic.

You just made the worst fantasy-related argument ever.

"Well Game of Thrones has dragons and magic, so why is it a problem that Littlefinger teleports everywhere?"

Presuming a demon or orc are sentient, I assume they'd opt for not helping their enemies kill them.

Just because a setting has fantasy elements doesn't mean all logic is immediately thrown out the window.

You're the reason why the fantasy genre dealt with so much bias over the past few decades.

[shaunika123]

Off the top of my head, Kael'thas' raid encounter was very well designed as he escalates the threat step-by-step, and killing him is a believable victory.

Contrast Gorefiend in HFC who literally helps you kill him.

gorefiend starts consuming a lot of souls to funnel his power(since we kill the ones already in him) which causes your raid to take enormous amounts of damage, but focusing on the feast makes him more vulnerable, how is that not "natural"? he makes a tactical mistake, and underestimates your team's ability to withstand his feast there's probably like 500 anime fights under similar circumstances.

by that logic why doesnt kael thas unleash all of his lieutenants right away WITH the weapons? or why doesnt he start attacking while you're killing trash? why isnt he riding al'ar at the entrance to kill your raid instantly?

[Wewlad]

gorefiend starts consuming a lot of souls to funnel his power which causes your raid to take enormouse amount of damage, but focusing on the feast makes him more vulnerable, how is that not "natural"? he makes a tactical mistake, and underestimates your team's ability to withstand his feast.

by that logic why doesnt kael thas unleash all of his lieutenants right away WITH the weapons?

There's a difference between gradually escalating the threat (as often happens in RL disputes), and actively helping your enemies kill you.

Plus, it's only there as a means to present the illusion of a unique fight, and temporarily give players some ego-boosting fellatio.

[markos82]

400k is a handful compared to 6-8 million, yes

6-8mill hardly.... I think there are less than 3mill active players atm, so yeah 400k is fucking a lot for a fucking content that has been outdate for 9 fucking years.... Thinking otherwise is just stupid....

So basically any time Blizzard makes a change you don't like, that's a reason to start whining and crying for them to bring back old, clunky stats and old, clunky talent trees

lolok

Yeah because dps actually being able to make more threat than tank back in the old days was stupid. Now you can hit keyboard with the head as tank and keep aggro. So much fun. So much fun... Look at me, doing 200k dps while pushing 3 buttons, i'm so good....

They're only removing the ability for addons to track player position

that's literally it

and here you are throwing a hissy fit as if the whole game is going down the shitter because of it

lol

No i'm not I'm saying they are constantly removing things from game instead of implementing new stuff. Hell best feature in last 5?!? years were pokemons....
And its a fucking addon, you can choose not to use it, its simple.,,,

FYI I've played vanilla, up through all of BWL.

And I played through all of BC's raids while they were current.

So you can drop this whole "lol you never played back then, you don't know how good it really was!" bullshit. I experienced firsthand how clunky and shitty it was.

Hit rating was not "fucking amazing", it was tedious for reasons I explained earlier. Having to always fuck about with making sure you're "hit capped" was not fun or interesting, it was just a boring chore and prevented you from equipping new gear.

Resist gear was not "fucking amazing", it was tedious to carry around, made you do less dps/healing because it usually only had stam+resist on it, and you practically NEEDED this shit for some encounters. It was not fun having to farm resist gear for 25 people just to do a single encounter. It was tedious as all fuck.

I like older expansions, but I'm not completely fucking blinded by nostalgia like you seem to be.

If you played it during Vanilla and TBC then you know that having to collect certain type of gear for certain raid was amazing! It forced players to actually do something rather than to just collect good gear from Garrison or buy them on Ah and just do raids. That having mp5 made healers think ahead rather then just spam healing, that generating threat and taking boss from tank was something that could actually happen.

Your explanation means nothing to me, really. To me it was amazing because you simply couldn't see oh highest item lvl i need that, you had to use brain and think ahead not just take it because it has higher stats....

So you are that kind, one that thinks having highest dps means you are doing it right. God, you just proved that you're one of those. The key aspect of this game is to survive and kill the boss, if "you"can do it with 710ilvl you can surely do it with 740+. Gear is a reward, nothing else. Back than you could kill a raid boss wearing mix of green/blue gear that you could collect by buying it from AH, doing dungeons or farming previous raid. Now we had amazing garrison to give us mythic gear, so much fun....

[shaunika123]

There's a difference between gradually escalating the threat (as often happens in RL disputes), and actively helping your enemies kill you.

Plus, it's only there as a means to present the illusion of a unique fight, and temporarily give players some ego-boosting fellatio.

i literally just explained why it's there by the game's and lore's logic, HES NOT HELPING YOU KILL HIM, he takes a risk because he needs those souls to keep fighting you(you see that purple bar under him? that's basically how many "soul power" he has left, when you go in his stomach to kill the souls he has it decreases) so he needs more, he HAS to feast, which puts him in a vulnerable position, but it's us who get him there, and even that vulnerable position is dangerous as fuck because he's trying to suck your souls out as well. and we're also actively stopping him from consuming more souls by blocking it during the feast phase so it lasts longer and keeps him more in the vulnerable position.

it's completely logical and natural, you just refuse to understand it. it's basically like saying kaelthas is actively helping you by giving you legendary weapons without which the fight would not be winnable

[Wewlad]

i literally just explained why it's there by the game's and lore's logic, HES NOT HELPING YOU KILL HIM, he takes a risk because he needs those souls to keep fighting you(you see that purple bar under him? that's basically how many "soul power" he has left, when you go in his stomach to kill the souls he has it decreases) so he needs more, he HAS to feast, which puts him in a vulnerable position, but it's us who get him there, and even that vulnerable position is dangerous as fuck because he's trying to suck your souls out as well. and we're also actively stopping him from consuming more souls by blocking it during the feast phase so it lasts longer and keeps him more in the vulnerable position.

it's completely logical and natural, you just refuse to understand it. it's basically like saying kaelthas is actively helping you by giving you legendary weapons without which the fight would not be winnable

I understand it, but it's still stupid. Granted, the HFC version of Gorefiend is so bastardized from his original incarnation. The Kael'thas fight actually *felt* like a Kael'thas fight since his character was still intact.

When the fight consists of enforcing a diet plan on a big fat blue blob, it really can't be justified.

[shaunika123]

I understand it, but it's still stupid. Granted, the HFC version of Gorefiend is so bastardized from his original incarnation. The Kael'thas fight actually *felt* like a Kael'thas fight since his character was still intact.

When the fight consists of enforcing a diet plan on a big fat blue blob, it really can't be justified.

could you please list every single raid boss ever in the game, rate their "naturalness" on a scale of 1-10 so i can nitpick the shit out of them?

the old gorefiend still "helped you" by turning you into a ghost so you could stop the other ghosts
so it aint exactly out of character is it?

in the end, damage buffs in raid are a cool thing, people like those bosses, everyone loves doing huge crits, and it's explained well anyway.

[Holofernes]

Same. I get irrationally angry when people can't handle ExtraActionButton mechanics.

Ultraxion was the first if I remember right. Its literally as simple as keybinding it and pressing it when its needed. WOW!

well i want to see you at mythic imperator not messing up stuff. if u can know exactly on the fly see how many yards you are away from 6 different people, now those 6 peoples debuff timers and can postion your self accordingly, than i really say congratz to your awsome skills. This has nothing to with iskar (wich was totally ok to do with standard ui), but there are bosses were without those addons u would be greatly fucked, and there even was a blog from paragon about how important it was for them to have on the fly addon writers in their roster for mythic progression in highmaul. If a progression guild needs addon coders on standby to help them kill aboss, because its overcomplicated (aka requires on the fly dynamic postion changing by exact amounts of yards according to differnt long debuff times), than u know it has gone to far.

[Mehrunes]

6-8mill hardly.... I think there are less than 3mill active players atm, so yeah 400k is fucking a lot for a fucking content that has been outdate for 9 fucking years.... Thinking otherwise is just stupid....

You're comparing free content to paid content. Your comparison is flawed by default, regardless of numbers.

Yeah because dps actually being able to make more threat than tank back in the old days was stupid. Now you can hit keyboard with the head as tank and keep aggro. So much fun. So much fun... Look at me, doing 200k dps while pushing 3 buttons, i'm so good....

Because specs were oh, so complicated in the times of your glorified vanilla. Oh, wait... Unless the part you're complaining about is the scary big numbers, in which case allow me to facepalm even harder.

No i'm not I'm saying they are constantly removing things from game instead of implementing new stuff. Hell best feature in last 5?!? years were pokemons....
And its a fucking addon, you can choose not to use it, its simple.

They are implementing new stuff. Given by your inclusion of "best feature" in here, you're trying to make two separate arguments at once.

If you played it during Vanilla and TBC then you know that having to collect certain type of gear for certain raid was amazing! It forced players to actually do something rather than to just collect good gear from Garrison or buy them on Ah and just do raids. That having mp5 made healers think ahead rather then just spam healing, that generating threat and taking boss from tank was something that could actually happen.

Subjectivity, how does it work? Getting resist gear was nothing more than a hassle and was pointless for 90%+ of the fights. Especially in vanilla when some of the resist gear was blues from instances that weren't even max level. Glorious design. Farming mats in TBC (and well, technically early WotLK also had one) for nuisance sets wasn't particularly engaging either. You may have liked the hassle, others not necessarily. And healers spammed healing just fine back then. They just spammed lower ranks spells (and mana potions). Which is more outdated design.

Your explanation means nothing to me, really. To me it was amazing because you simply couldn't see oh highest item lvl i need that, you had to use brain and think ahead not just take it because it has higher stats....

Yeah, because people magically stopped prioritizing certain items because the stats are different. Get real. Hit was nothing more than a cockblock of a stat and you had to dance around it constantly. Ooooh, I need X hit not to be useless because my character is retarded and somehow misses with fucking AoE without it. Makes all the sense.

So you are that kind, one that thinks having highest dps means you are doing it right. God, you just proved that you're one of those. The key aspect of this game is to survive and kill the boss, if "you"can do it with 710ilvl you can surely do it with 740+. Gear is a reward, nothing else. Back than you could kill a raid boss wearing mix of green/blue gear that you could collect by buying it from AH, doing dungeons or farming previous raid. Now we had amazing garrison to give us mythic gear, so much fun....

How is this rant related to what you were replying to? And you had welfare epics since at least Zul'Gurub. There are more ways to get gear nowadays, ze horror!

[Wewlad]

could you please list every single raid boss ever in the game, rate their "naturalness" on a scale of 1-10 so i can nitpick the shit out of them?

Looks like you need some cream to rub on that burn. GG.

[shaunika123]

Looks like you need some cream to rub on that burn. GG.

that made so little sense im not even sure it was english. how exactly did you burn me? lol you're literally the wow boss design equivalent of creatonists

"i dont like it so i dont care if you explain it with the most evidence, rationality and logic i still wont like it cos reasons wha wha haha you replied to my commend so you're burned" are you on meth or something?