Did they really say this about xpacs?

[Lilija]

But they didn't say any of that they just said they tried something and it failed. I don't need an apology but I also don't need them saying the same thing they have said every expansion from tbc on. They always say thier will be less content droughts and never keep thier word. My problem is why say it again? Why even open that door again? It will just lead to them once again not delevering on that promise and more threads on it. Why even do it is my point?

Tbh, I don't recall them saying before that there won't be content droughts (doesn't mean it didn't happen ofc). But I think one thing you don't realize is that failure is a natural part of a creative process. It happens regardless of your intentions. What they have said now is that their approach to try to release expansions faster at all cost did not work therefor they will try a different approach. And this is the most natural thing to do. They aren't promising anyone that content drought will never happen again because it's not possible to predict what issues will come up in the future. However, they are saying they will focus on preventing the drought rather than trying to release expansions faster. Sure, it's their fault they didn't realize it earlier while some of us on the forums were mentioning it already that we don't really need faster expansions. But hey, they are human. Humans make mistakes. The best thing a human can do with a mistake is learn from it. And they obviously did and that is a good thing. Apology or any kind of penance isn't really needed at this point.

[Jewsco]

Tbh, I don't recall them saying before that there won't be content droughts (doesn't mean it didn't happen ofc). But I think one thing you don't realize is that failure is a natural part of a creative process. It happens regardless of your intentions. What they have said now is that their approach to try to release expansions faster at all cost did not work therefor they will try a different approach. And this is the most natural thing to do. They aren't promising anyone that content drought will never happen again because it's not possible to predict what issues will come up in the future. However, they are saying they will focus on preventing the drought rather than trying to release expansions faster. Sure, it's their fault they didn't realize it earlier while some of us on the forums were mentioning it already that we don't really need faster expansions. But hey, they are human. Humans make mistakes. The best thing a human can do with a mistake is learn from it. And they obviously did and that is a good thing. Apology or any kind of penance isn't really needed at this point.

Really? You are arguing with me here and then saying that you don't remember them saying thier won't be content droughts in the future? They have said that every expansion from tbc on. Saying the end of expansion drought between last patch and new expansion will not be as long as the last one. And every expansion it has gotten longer. That is my whole problem. Why keep promising this when they clearly can't deliver on it? It just keeps setting them up to get bashed. They keep looking like the drunk at the bar that announces every night this is his last night drinking. This is why so many doubt thier word. By continually saying this they have made thier word seem meaningless. So why even bother with it?

[Lilija]

Really? You are arguing with me here and then saying that you don't remember them saying thier won't be content droughts in the future? They have said that every expansion from tbc on. Saying the end of expansion drought between last patch and new expansion will not be as long as the last one. And every expansion it has gotten longer. That is my whole problem. Why keep promising this when they clearly can't deliver on it? It just keeps setting them up to get bashed. They keep looking like the drunk at the bar that announces every night this is his last night drinking. This is why so many doubt thier word. By continually saying this they have made thier word seem meaningless. So why even bother with it?

Hmm... maybe the difference between me and you is that I don't tend to believe in things that aren't realistic. And maybe whatever they've said in the past about content drought wasn't a promise. Tbh, it's quite often devs say something about their plans and then ppl take it as a promise. I don't recall Blizzard ever promising much in the past. It's not their fault ppl take their every word as a promise. Whatever they have said about content drought in Legion isn't a promise either. It's a plan. Plans can fail. I think you are in real need of a reality check and stop believing in fairy tales.

If someone says "I want to do something". It doesn't mean "I promise it will happen".

[Jewsco]

Hmm... maybe the difference between me and you is that I don't tend to believe in things that aren't realistic. And maybe whatever they've said in the past about content drought wasn't a promise. Tbh, it's quite often devs say something about their plans and then ppl take it as a promise. I don't recall Blizzard ever promising much in the past. It's not their fault ppl take their every word as a promise. Whatever they have said about content drought in Legion isn't a promise either. It's a plan. Plans can fail. I think you are in real need of a reality check and stop believing in fairy tales.

If someone says "I want to do something". It doesn't mean "I promise it will happen".

Why say it then? Why even open that door? Add in they have done it repeatedly? Who is forcing them to keep saying it? So you are fine with thier words being meaningless? Maybe someone's word means something to me. And when we have another long drought I don't want to see you complaining because you seem fine with it.

P.s.
If ones plans continually fail you don't think it might be time for a new plan?

[Lilija]

Why say it then? Why even open that door? Add in they have done it repeatedly? Who is forcing them to keep saying it? So you are fine with thier words being meaningless? Maybe someone's word means something to me. And when we have another long drought I don't want to see you complaining because you seem fine with it.

I'm fine because I don't see things in their words that aren't there. They hardly ever promised stuff. I myself don't recall a single promise. They say what they want to achieve. A responsible thing to do is take into account that it might not work out. Trying to release expansions faster was extremely ambicious plan and what they wanted to achieve with it might be not possible at all in the current state of developement process.

If ones plans continually fail you don't think it might be time for a new plan?

Yes, there is a new plan. Each time they've tried something new but those things didn't work. A plan is one thing. Reality is another. Plan sometimes fails. In fact the majority of human made plans fail. Learning from those failures is the way to success.

[Jewsco]

I'm fine because I don't see things in their words that aren't there. They hardly ever promised stuff. I myself don't recall a single promise. They say what they want to achieve. A responsible thing to do is take into account that it might not work out. Trying to release expansions faster was extremely ambicious plan and what they wanted to achieve with it might be not possible at all in the current state of developement process.


Yes, there is a new plan. Each time they've tried something new but those things didn't work. A plan is one thing. Reality is another. Plan sometimes fails. In fact the majority of human made plans fail. Learning from those failures is the way to success.

Fine defend them when you even admitted you didn't know or remember thier past promises. This is pointless with you at this point so have a good day.

[Celarent]

Focusing on something doesn't mean achieving it.

It has all the marks of an upper-management edict:

WE WILL MAKE A BETTER PRODUCT AND MORE MONEY BY RELEASING AN EXPANSION A YEAR. MIDDLE MANAGEMENT WILL SUPERVISE EXACTLY HOW.

And like a lot of these decrees from 30,000 feet, it made no logistical or strategic sense. Hallelujah if Blizzard is ditching this silly direction and going back to 2-year, 3-or-4-act expansions.

[Lilija]

Fine defend them when you even admitted you didn't know or remember thier past promises. This is pointless with you at this point so have a good day.

Ok, show me those promises. Like you know, actual quotes that they promised that something will happen.

P.S. I'm not defending them. I'm trying to explain reality to you.

[Marrilaife]

For reference on what went wrong.

MoP: No idea, probably the fact they scrapped and redesigned Jade Forest twice.

WoD: Garrison Creep.

Blizz refused to acknowledge that they can't do expansions faster than 2 years, and in WoD's case they actually tried to cut content from WoD thinking the amount of content in MoP was the problem.

Well TBH they had the same problem with Cata.

They decided to revamp the whole 1-60 world (minus TBC areas Draenei / Belf starter zones), which caused ICC to last for a year (Ruby Sanctum was 1 boss hole nobody liked, only thing to like from there were 25 man trinket loots, I'm afraid "Stormheim raid" will have the same issue) and still release Cata in a state where it lacked content in comparison to WOTLK, smaller raids, less dungeons, mediocre casual content (most memorable being "Zin'rokh grind" a.k.a. endless archeology and Molten Front that felt like unnecessarily gated and stretched).

MOP problem was they frontloaded all the casual content, made it "mandatory" for raiders, and then ran out of steam. 5.3 Battlefield Barrens was one of the laziest patches I've ever seen (probably only beaten by THE laziest called 6.1), it had rudimentary questline and mostly "go grind hundreds of stones, wood and oil from these mobs in the barrens". 5.4 was only better by the fact it had a raid in it, timeless isle was lazy design again, nearly no quests, little lore, and mostly "raretimer huolon" and grind a bazillion elites for Shaohao rep so you can get nth recolor of the same mount you already had.

If they want to learn their lesson they need to stop frontloading all the content at the start of xpac and then throwing us lazily designed grinds and 1-boss holes as a "filler" just because all their eyes are on the new expansion already. They can put catch up mechanisms in patches but please don't make it "grind a mob" or "grind a bg" type of catch-up, put same effort in it as you did in opener content. Thx.

[Rosencrantz]

Not necessarily. If that tier is the top dog during its time it will have served to be new content that people deem worth doing. I don't care what expansion you played, even going back to TBC is you came in late the only thing worth doing was the "island and last raid". Even then heroics were useless for anything but farming valor/ badges.

What BC did you play? You didn't just jump into funwell unless you were doing a trash run. People were PuGing gruul's and kara the whole expansion. t5 wasn't easily puggable. Content all stayed relevent the entire expansion because the model was progressing through the raids. It only changed when ZA came out because it was so easy and gave good loot. And even then it had the chest timers for even better loot, so it also appealed to raiders further along.

[WhiteEagle888]

Yep - slow does wonders for the story though.

[Hctaz]

Would we of? It is the last raid tier what last raid tier in any expansion lasted only 6-7 months? How long was Soo? 14 months right? They have always had this problem and always say they won't in the new expansion why keep saying it? At this point they are the boy who cried wolf. Just worry about making a good expansion I don't need this promise anymore.

Yes. We would have. Think about it this way: If they were developing legion for the same amount of time but stuck in another raid that lasted 6-7 months, then HFC would have only lasted 7-8 months instead of 14. 6-7 of those 14 months would have been another raid tier. The reason why they keep having these issues is because they say they keep trying to push out faster expansions. That means that they have to plan ahead for these faster expansions. Somebody at Blizzard sat down and said "Guys WoD is only going to last a year. We're getting Legion out as soon as possible. Make the raids work around this" and so they scrapped whatever middle tier raid they were going to add into the game because they thought that they wouldn't need it.

[Ringthane]

For reference on what went wrong.

MoP: No idea, probably the fact they scrapped and redesigned Jade Forest twice.

WoD: Garrison Creep.

Blizz refused to acknowledge that they can't do expansions faster than 2 years, and in WoD's case they actually tried to cut content from WoD thinking the amount of content in MoP was the problem.

Blizzard won't acknowledge that because all they've been hearing for years is players begging them for faster expansions.

[MoanaLisa]

You obviously have never had the experience of trying to blast through something in a short amount of time and then later on took twice as long to fix everything you messed up the first time through. Particularly with software projects--large ones--accelerating development to meet some pre-determined goal takes longer than to do everything as right as you can the first time.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard won't acknowledge that because all they've been hearing for years is players begging them for faster expansions.

I doubt this. There have certainly been a lot of chatter about content droughts though and the length of them, which is different. Related perhaps, but different.

[Marrilaife]

Blizzard won't acknowledge that because all they've been hearing for years is players begging them for faster expansions.

Because instead of giving them 50$ every 2 years we should give them 50$ every year basically doubling their income from box sales? Who in the right mind in the playerbase would "beg" for that? The only people drooling over the idea are greedy Acti-Blizz CEOs counting the projected box sales income, not caring whether devs and programmers can cope with it, only seeing virtual $$$ flow.

Well maybe extreme levellers no end-game participants would like that...

What people really begged for was more content, especially late in expansion cycle, and more end game casual content that isn't raiding or pvp season.

[Lilija]

I have just realized knowing Blizzard's trend to overdo stuff when people ask for something if they won't try to flood us with content. That might be limited by their resources ofc but I just hope they focus on responding ppl's needs and not exactly what ppl ask on the forums (yes, those are quite often 2 different things)

[LovesToSpooge]

I dont think you understand how long it takes to make the content