[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Gracin]

Wouldn't it be a lot smoother to have Judgment bounce on 2 targets and cause a buff on yourself that increases damage done by holy powers spenders for x seconds?

Reworking the judgment talent, it could just go as follows:

"Judgment hits an additional 2 targets. If judgment hits 4 targets, divine storm damage is increased by 10/20%" And this could last as long as you have the judgment buff.

That way switching to a priority target when you've used judgment on a boss quite recently allows for greater burst potential in killing the priority target, while keeping the mechanic of pooling HP and spending during judgment window to be the same.

No, that would just be dumb to give us the buff instead of debuffing the target, because it would be different than Colossus Smash... /s

[Morally Grey Storm]

No, that would just be dumb to give us the buff instead of debuffing the target, because it would be different than Colossus Smash... /s

it would also make 2 very gooder talents completely obsolete(along with a few very serious nuances regarding Judgement), and we can't have that. Namely (not so) Greater Judgement and Lovebringer.
After all, they are so balanced and perfect.

[Narruin]

I've already got message from my raid leader that retribution paladin will not get the place in raid setup.
I'm not even suprised. Main for 6 years thrown to trash bucket.
I think I will get to raid for some CDs just to troll those who will deal lower damage. You know like - those who deal less damage than retlol will get no loot.
Or everyone who deals less damage than retlol is being kicked until ret kicked too.

[Gracin]

I've already got message from my raid leader that retribution paladin will not get the place in raid setup.
I'm not even suprised. Main for 6 years thrown to trash bucket.
I think I will get to raid for some CDs just to troll those who will deal lower damage. You know like - those who deal less damage than retlol will get no loot.
Or everyone who deals less damage than retlol is being kicked until ret kicked too.

Just curious, for your particular raid group what options do you have to swap mains and raid as now?

[Knight Artorius]

In regards to target swapping what if they gave judgement a reduction/reset mechanic if the target dies while judgement is applied. Example : Target dies with 3 seconds left on the debuff so the remaining cooldown of judgement is reduced by 3 seconds. That would allow them to keep their "class fantasy" crap for the spell, but not make it as punishing to use on priority adds.

[Improtaight]

I have to say,
i've been playing Ret as a main for 4 years now, and i always liked it.

WTF did they do to it?
tried to fix the proc issue, so they made it so doll and slow? even if ret was #1 in DPS/DMG, its still an awful gameplay, and talents dont help you much.
i took the Divide purpose +Justicar's veng to "spice things up a bit".

Rets got the BEST looking artifact weapon, but got the WORST gameplay, its even more awful than Combat rogues used to be!!!

/end mini rage

[Deleted]

I've already got message from my raid leader that retribution paladin will not get the place in raid setup.
I'm not even suprised. Main for 6 years thrown to trash bucket.
I think I will get to raid for some CDs just to troll those who will deal lower damage. You know like - those who deal less damage than retlol will get no loot.
Or everyone who deals less damage than retlol is being kicked until ret kicked too.

Not surprised. The damage output is by no means backed by hybrid raid utility. Only reason to drag rets along progress is for os prot on some encounters. (priests can fill the role of dps,heals,semiheals better with their speccs).
If only shield of vengeance could be cast on target not selfonly and the heal from jov could go to lowest party member could see some bits of utility. However even with those cannot see how someone tryin to clear mythic content in a fast pace would decide to bring a ret along

[Narruin]

Just curious, for your particular raid group what options do you have to swap mains and raid as now?

Basically I can play any class/spec except underperfoming ones.

- - - Updated - - -

The damage output is by no means backed by hybrid raid utility.

I still can't get what kind of raid utility do we have? I see one - to be not in raid and thus buffing raid damage.
I will always think that dps spec of any class (even those who lacks heal or tank) should be balanced around same numbers, allowing players with same skill to deal ~ same dps.

[Hashcrypt]

It is kind of sad what Ret has become. Prot for that matter as well.

I'll admit that the gameplay of Ret has improved over the past couple months, but it's still miles behind the fireworks show that WoD put on display.

I never felt more Paladin-like than I did doing mythic dungeons, throwing out great dps, tossing instant heals to low party members, throwing sac on my tank when needed, and being constantly movement hasted via judgements. It all just worked.

Unfortunately all of that magic is gone from Ret. I could've lived with this if we got a high damage boost to compensate. The opposite has held true thus far.

The only Paladin spec which presents any fun gameplay to me is Holy, and that's only in PvP.

Sadly, Legion will spell the death of my Paladin...she is by far my most favorite character.

[Deleted]

I too do believe in mermaids, hobgoblins, kindness and justice.

Don't forget peace on azeroth.

- - - Updated - - -

I've already got message from my raid leader that retribution paladin will not get the place in raid setup.

Lies - Everyone knows GBoK will take us to raids.

I'm not even suprised. Main for 6 years thrown to trash bucket.
I think I will get to raid for some CDs just to troll those who will deal lower damage. You know like - those who deal less damage than retlol will get no loot.
Or everyone who deals less damage than retlol is being kicked until ret kicked too

I suggest protection, the stuff i tanked last night was really fun.

[dexx]

It is kind of sad what Ret has become. Prot for that matter as well.
I never felt more Paladin-like than I did doing mythic dungeons...I could've lived with this if we got a high damage boost to compensate. The opposite has held true thus far

The Ret and Prot players ive seen so far have had great output. Admittedly i've seen few at 110 so far so it may be different then.

[Narruin]

I suggest protection, the stuff i tanked last night was really fun.

I was main pallytank from start of BC till Black Rock Foundry. I really like it, but I don't want tank with my pala anymore, because it became too easy.

[Deleted]

Does "Crusade" on live shows anyone else 4,1% damage increase/stack since yesterday? I asked two friends of mine, they still have 3,5%. Beta says 3,5% as well. o.O

[Fiskerenfisk]

Does "Crusade" on live shows anyone else 4,1% damage increase/stack since yesterday? I asked two friends of mine, they still have 3,5%. Beta says 3,5% as well. o.O

Mine has said 4.1% ever since the patch came out few weeks ago.

[OrcsRLame]

Guys I have a question regarding this table


I know those are the stats priority for lvl 100 using 735 gear.

But I want to know if anyone have a rough idea on what secondary stats we should be seeking in legion.

The reason I am asking is because I am sitting on a pile of gold & wish to buy the crafted gear off AH & i want to go with the right stats.

Should I just aim for haste & crit on all my pieces?

I don't have actual math to support this, so if someone more knowledgeable than myself wishes to correct me, feel free to do so.

It's my understanding that versatility and crit are fairly close to each other. Haste is huge for us and you'll probably want that on as many pieces as possible. You probably don't want to go for crit on every piece though, as the value of other secondary stats will rise and you gain more of an individual stat. Basically, crit will make vers better in a general sense. It's also worth it to note that Ashbringer has crit and mastery on it, so you're going to be getting a not insignificant amount of both no matter what you do. This will make mastery even less desirable and should push crit and vers just slightly closer.

I'm not saying don't stack crit like a motherfucker, but there's probably a point where having crit on your gear would come at a slight dps loss compared to vers.

[OrcsRLame]

So basically in a perfect world, I should go for something like 50% haste 25% crit 25% vers? Have you done any testing for this at 110?

From everything I've read, our stat priority doesn't change much at 110. My anecdotal testing is probably not a good thing to base your character decisions on.

[OrcsRLame]

Probably not an awful way to go about it, (may not be fully optimal) though personally I'd be hesitant to rely so much on crafted gear.

[OrcsRLame]

Why not? At least in my case, it won't hurt to rely on crafted gear to get easy access to mythic dungeons.

I have been collecting gold on 10 alts for 2 years. I think that's the only way I would spend gold. otherwise, how am i suppose to spend it.

Fair enough, that's going to be an utterly massive amount of gold though lol.

You might be better served waiting for Titanforged BoEs to start appearing on the AH. Unless you've literally got like 500 million gold, in which case, go ham I guess?

[Deleted]

Will wait for more simmin data and maths to accept that . I mean logic says that by being able to use empowered by judge debuff mastery related hits on target i cannot understand why we remain fixed on versatility that much.
Plus i would be reluctant to spend my hardearned gold on gear that can be deemed useless by one tiny patch fixing damage output of certain spells and talents and the correlations of mastery it means for ret.

[Deleted]

Oh well usually saving it for major upgrades after exhaustive simmin and well free gametime :P
However the story so far is like one major secondary stat which usually has some soft cappin and rest should be around the same with one lackin by a fair amount. Noticed your table avoids mastery like the plague whereas logic says that it should be versatility ... Anyways point is i would rather wait a bit for more simmin. Other than that having a crafting proffession am always happy when i have returning customers