Gamescom Developer Interview - Addon Changes in Patch 7.1

[Seramore]

What a stupid thing to break. Does Blizzard not understand that Kormrok, Kromrog, and even Iskar are impossible without positioning? If they want to break positioning, they better not make Mythic fights like those. You can't expect perfect positioning out of even the best groups without addons. Sure, group on raid markers and spreading out are easy, but the precision needed for those fights was dumb.

In case anybody was wondering, this is a prime example of what I was referring to in my two posts above.

[Deleted]

In case anybody was wondering, this is a prime example of what I was referring to in my two posts above.

It's a prime example of someone trying to bypass mechanics because they most likely do not belong in mythic to start with. Which is fine

[Seramore]

That's not a problem at all. Reading through this thread, there's too many smug elitists who don't like certain players stepping foot in Mythic raids. I can't imagine why. Those players don't affect you and are of no concern to you.

Assuming you're referring to my post in addition to the others who have responded to this problem, it has absolutely nothing to do with people stepping foot into Mythic. I don't care who does this difficulty and kills bosses in it, the problem is that it's intended to be difficult and people are complaining about the fact that addons which trivializes the difficulty are being disabled. If you're relying on an addon to bypass the difficulty that is intended to be difficult, then maybe the hard difficulty isn't for you.

[Pooti]

Assuming you're referring to my post out of the others who have responded to this problem, it has absolutely nothing to do with people stepping foot into Mythic. I don't care who does this difficulty and kills bosses in it, the problem is that it's intended to be difficult and people are complaining about the fact that addons which trivializes the difficulty are being disabled. If you're relying on an addon to bypass the difficulty that is intended to be difficult, then maybe the hard difficulty isn't for you.

I agree with you 100%. I am however waiting for the "I pay the same money as you so I should have access to everything you do" retort to surface.

[Confucius]

the camera zoom explanations were basically all garbage

[ImpTaimer]

Everytime Blizzard breaks an addon and makes a raider/pvper cry an angel gets its wings.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with people trying out mythic? As long as they dont use cheats for it

How the fuck are ALLOWED addons cheats? Blizzard has ALLOWED all these things to be done, because they provide the API AddOns can use.

Want to see "real cheats" for WoW? Go find the cinematic programs that allow you to detach the camera from your character and go fly around. That is "kinda cheaty" but if Blizzard cripples their game further maybe more people are open to using third party software to exploit the game.

[ImpTaimer]

How the fuck are ALLOWED addons cheats? Blizzard has ALLOWED all these things to be done, because they provide the API AddOns can use.

Want to see "real cheats" for WoW? Go find the cinematic programs that allow you to detach the camera from your character and go fly around. That is "kinda cheaty" but if Blizzard cripples their game further maybe more people are open to using third party software to exploit the game.

This is the kind of argument that screams 'It's not cheating if I don't get caught".

The API is not a waver for addon creators to exploit the shit out of it.

[Realtalk]

People need to stop posting real mythic players don't need these types of add-ons.

The add-on they're breaking was extremely beneficial in Methods world first Mythic Archimonde. Pretty sure (none?) maybe Paragon killed him with out their radar weak aura. Hell Seita own words he actually says how impressed and easy it made p2. The very changes that are being implemented are in line with where he said he said he'd like to raiding and addons headed. Getting to point of basically needing a guild coder to make first kills faster was becoming a joke. Top raiders saw this a year ago.

http://manaflask.com/articles/wod-si...agon-interview

[zeropeorth]

FFXIV has no addons. dbm in TBC only had timers and a list of people in range of you. Its not the end of the world. Its quite easy to adapt to it but it will def make people worse raiders if they relayed too heavy on them and can't adapt to the new meta.

FFXIV also telegraphs much better than WoW ever has; though WoW has gotten much better about this the last few years.


Everyone is harping on people not deserving to be in Mythic if they need these addons, forgetting the fact that people who play all versions of the raid use the addons, and possibly, those who play worse than you, actually 'need' them at the normal/heroic level because they aren't as skilled as the top tier players.


I personally didn't like all the fancy bubbles and stuff that was added to DBM, but the /range indicator has been in its current state for nearly a decade, seems odd they suddenly find it an issue; well, they suddenly find a lot of things issues, like camera distance as well. I think they've moved a lot of people around, and some of the people that left had some strong influence in keeping the standard we had.


Good or bad, its their direction. Most will adjust. I do not have faith in their ability to design with it in mind; as they have failed at their intentions consistently. They remove mobility and promise fights won't require nearly as much ... fights come out requiring more mobility. They increase health, increase healer spell costs and lower mana pools claiming there won't be one shot mechanics, triage is important, and you'll always have time to heal the tank after big damage ... and it just never happens that way. They have ideas, but they have no clue how to implement them or they completely forget (or worse case, they are just saying things to make the pitchforks go away and have no intentions of following through).


I play differently than I used to, most of this stuff will barely affect me at all; and I've played without the addons in the past rather fine; so no big deal, but can understand and relate to those who do take issue.

[Seramore]

People need to stop posting real mythic players don't need these types of add-ons.

The add-on they're breaking was extremely beneficial in Methods world first Mythic Archimonde. Pretty sure (none?) maybe Paragon killed him with out their radar weak aura. Hell Seita own words he actually says how impressed and easy it made p2. The very changes that are being implemented are in line with where he said he said he'd like to raiding and addons headed. Getting to point of basically needing a guild coder to make first kills faster was becoming a joke. Top raiders saw this a year ago.

http://manaflask.com/articles/wod-si...agon-interview

I feel like your first sentence and the rest of your post are conflicting with each other. You say people need to stop saying what people have been saying in this thread, but the rest of your post only reinforces what has been said so far. Take what I said in my previous post, and replace it with: "if you have to use this addon to rely on a kill, maybe that world first kill wasn't for you." Paragon did it legitimately and Method relied on a coder to provide an addon to cheese the mechanic. The kill was fair, but the fact that one guild used an addon to make a mechanic minuscule and one guild didn't on a top kill says a lot.

To you and the others who have posted in response to the replies in this thread, it's perfectly okay to have an opinion and say that you don't like this change. With that being said, the point of this entire argument is that if you're complaining about this and saying that your raiding experience is ruined because of this change, you're absolutely in the wrong.

[ImpTaimer]

People need to stop posting real mythic players don't need these types of add-ons.

The add-on they're breaking was extremely beneficial in Methods world first Mythic Archimonde. Pretty sure (none?) maybe Paragon killed him with out their radar weak aura. Hell Seita own words he actually says how impressed and easy it made p2. The very changes that are being implemented are in line with where he said he said he'd like to raiding and addons headed. Getting to point of basically needing a guild coder to make first kills faster was becoming a joke. Top raiders saw this a year ago.

http://manaflask.com/articles/wod-si...agon-interview

Correct. Mythic raiders are not a paragon of skill and honor. They just as prone as any player to using any tool they can get their hands on to achieve their goal.

Every ban wave hitting Mythic Raiders and Rated PvP player and people just blow it off like "oh they're an outlier". No. The hard truth is for every bleeding-edge <insert raid size> there's at least one person doing things they probably shouldn't be doing.

Undocumented account sharing is the biggest offense committed by players, bleeding-edge or not.

[WuxianLP]

...

Do you like spam? no, well too bad. Can't check unit positions, don't know if you're on the boat, or the platform. Mogu side or mantid? top of galakras tower or on road. etc. Can't check position, filters are GONE. Can't use smart location checks to go "this player only needs to know what's going on for boat". Now, timers and warnings for ALL yay!.

Their fix is stupid and not well thought out. if they wanted to break arrows and stuff they could have just broke something else like detecting player facing/angle, not breaking unit position checks. This is going to have side effects that are really dumb and a huge step backwards.

Did you think about that they designed the new abilities and encounters with that in mind? I guess not.

[killbill]

With random matchmaking and LFG, it is almost still a solo experience if you want it to be. You can jump right into the dungeon and finish the storyline at the end of the zone.

This is impossible, when my first time into dungeon, I want to watch everything including long cut scene but other members are already moving away. Great if you are the tank, everyone will wait but as dps I often left behind and since I was new to the dungeon I will be lost. If the solution is to watch on youtube then the idea to jump right into or continue the story is already lost.

[Gaucho-]

that moment when people who don't belong in the mythic raiding scene complain about things that really won't be an issue.

this gives me flashbacks to that one addon that Blizzard completely nullified in ICC. when that addon was taken care of by Blizzard, things ended up being fine. this isn't the end of the world. If you really need to rely on an addon that has arrows which point at things or arrows that tell you where to go in raids, then maybe this kind of raiding isn't for you.

Are you saying that raiding isn't for people in Method, Paragon or Exorsus then? Because these people crafted this addons for fights like Archimonde.

[Spunt]

"You shouldn't regret what you spent your Artifact Power on."

Funny. This is exactly what I felt when I picked up Soul Flame and Wrath of Consumption. On death talents for a spec with the LONGEST RAMP UP IN THE GAME are pure garbage.

[Zka]

"Part of why the team never fixed some of the terrain in Everbloom is the challenge mode leaderboard. Fixing it would make the top times unbeatable."

Then why don't they make these shortcuts trivial? There isn't anything more offputting in an instance than spending minutes trying to walljump to avoid a few trashpacks that die in a few gcds...

About the radar addons: if you need such an aid to make an encounter playable, then the encounter design is clearly stupid.

[Runefeather]

I am pretty excited for Karazhan to come back. It was my first raid, so I have a lot of nostalgia for it <3

[Seramore]

Are you saying that raiding isn't for people in Method, Paragon or Exorsus then? Because these people crafted this addons for fights like Archimonde.

Are you saying that you read absolutely nothing besides that single post you quoted?

[Deleted]

The only 2 things we really use position add-ons for is /range x - which semi-competent raiders don't need, and less competent raiders never cared about anyway - and the ability to do things like assign specific positions with arrows like in Mythic Kormrok - Which isn't exactly run by PuGs, and tends to attract more competent raiders anyway. If you are running that sort of content you are smart enough to listen to your raid leader and know where you need to go/stand.

These addons have been used since burning crusade (gruul), as generally people don't have a ruler in their mind (and when you have 25 players trying to get into position in a few seconds in a confined space, you do need the range check), allowing to measure the distance between 2 players.

Did you think about that they designed the new abilities and encounters with that in mind? I guess not.

The mechanics which made people develop these sort of addons are still around though.