Blizzard breaking radar type addons

[Balir]

One of the big reasons for this change was the radar used on Mythic Archimonde progression.

[Alvito]

no reason for blizzard to do this......hope it gets reverted.

There are plenty of reasons. The add ons allow you to complete skip mechanics. Do you enjoy playing the game or do you want a series of add ons telling you how to play and what to do all the time?

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If they do this I hope they make characters more visible. I find it a bit hard to see people in relation to me in the clutter sometimes.

They added the new outline mode for your own player to help with this. Not a perfect fix but it sure helps when you are in melee in a sea of Gamons.

[Mercane]

Ye cos they are worse than braindead, all you have to do is move along a line lmao.

You're not wrong lol.

[Deleted]

Just shows us one of two things:
1) Blizzard cannot come up with boss mechanics that would not be made utterly laughable by addons.
2) Blizzard design their new encounters in a way where these addons are not really needed and just ban them, because having them would take aways from their effort to make the mechanics easier

[Deleted]

Just shows us one of two things:
1) Blizzard cannot come up with boss mechanics that would not be made utterly laughable by addons.

It's a computer game.. it will always be able to be beaten by another algorithm

[akris15]

One of the big reasons for this change was the radar used on Mythic Archimonde progression.

Probably the final straw was Mythic Tichondrius right now where most of the feedback was basically along the lines of: yeah trying to organize 16 people to soak this mechanic is going to be a pain but we will just develop an aura similar to Archimonde to help us out. This change is going to make Tichondrius a nightmare for the raid leader.

Tichondrius on Mythic looked like it was designed with guilds using a radar so I wonder if they are going to change the mechanics a bit.

[Deleted]

It's a computer game.. it will always be able to be beaten by another algorithm

True. But if the encounter mostly rely mostly on distance between players or they location in the room it's bad design.
They could bring back some mechanics at rely on the right tactics, like a boss casting a AoE that does a lot of damage but give a buff that helps with a later mechanic. So it's a decision if the group can soak the damage for the buff and ease the other mechanic or if it is easier to deal with the other mechanic while avoiding damage now.

But the stand 20 meters apart, stand 3 steps left of the testicle of the boss or any such mechanic is just lazy.
Add more synergy between the mechanics, so it's more about:
Oh we didn't get the spreading just right? Fuck, in 30 seconds we will get a huge burst of damage on the group. Healers get ready for that!

[thilicen]

Yet even with weakaura's, dbm or bigwigs- people still fuck it up on a semi-consistent basis.

Getting used to having your hand held like that will inevitabely make you so shit you can't even cope with the addons active. Can't wait to see how LFR looks after this.

[MoanaLisa]

True. But if the encounter mostly rely mostly on distance between players or they location in the room it's bad design.

How is it bad design that a raid team has to keep an eye on the fight and their teammates instead of having their head buried in a UI element? Do people really think that you can't eyeball stuff like this with some time and practice?

[akris15]

How is it bad design that a raid team has to keep an eye on the fight and their teammates instead of having their head buried in a UI element? Do people really think that you can't eyeball stuff like this with some time and practice?

Adjustments will have to be made but a fight like how Mythic Tichondrius has been designed with managing that debuff and positioning on top of the high healing/movement just made this fight probably the hardest ones in there without an aura. The fight will probably need to be changed from its current form from what we have been testing to account for this change. Not saying its impossible without it but they basically created the new Gorefiend with this change.

I am not saying Blizzard shouldn't have nerfed these addons (they were always grey to begin with) but when they make a fight like Tichondrius is pretty clear it was made with people using auras in mind.

[nazrakin]

The only surprising thing about this, is that it took this long.

[Deleted]

How is it bad design that a raid team has to keep an eye on the fight and their teammates instead of having their head buried in a UI element? Do people really think that you can't eyeball stuff like this with some time and practice?

The huge reliance on this is the bad design. Not the thing it self.
If an encounter with 10 mechanics and two of those are relying on position, it's fine. But if 8 of those are relying on position it becomes more a fight against the raid group instead of a fight against the boss.

[Deja Thoris]

How is it bad design that a raid team has to keep an eye on the fight and their teammates instead of having their head buried in a UI element? Do people really think that you can't eyeball stuff like this with some time and practice?

Theres a couple of problems with these mechanics imo. To me they seem to add crazy complexity for the sake of it. Archimonde without those positioning addons would have been harder for sure, would it have been fun to progress though? Not to me.

Also mechanics like these generally reduce your whole team to the lowest common denominator. I'm fine with Johnny dying if he screws up. The problem is with all of these mechanics Johnny's in a suicide vest and blows his team up when he screws up. The whole team getting punished for the screw up of one person is sometimes ok but its becoming the norm and thats a bit meh.

[Mercane]

Getting used to having your hand held like that will inevitabely make you so shit you can't even cope with the addons active. Can't wait to see how LFR looks after this.

Simple. Don't do LFR.

[badgersmashr]

Theres a couple of problems with these mechanics imo. To me they seem to add crazy complexity for the sake of it. Archimonde without those positioning addons would have been harder for sure, would it have been fun to progress though? Not to me.

Also mechanics like these generally reduce your whole team to the lowest common denominator. I'm fine with Johnny dying if he screws up. The problem is with all of these mechanics Johnny's in a suicide vest and blows his team up when he screws up. The whole team getting punished for the screw up of one person is sometimes ok but its becoming the norm and thats a bit meh.

YOu have profoundly summed up one of my biggest complaints about the new "philosophy" the raid design team has taken on. These types of fights are fine when their not used for every single stinking boss. Especially if you have a team full of Goofys and Elmer Fudds. be Vewy vewy Kwiet, i'm hunting wind bombs says the clown on wind lord Meljarak. /shudder

[Arthas242]

personally i wish they ban all raid mods, they are not needed.....

i have gotten to 4/13 mythic with no mods, and i am mostly limited on time/guild.....

[Varaben]

Watcher just dropped the bomb on Slootbag's Gamescom stream - in patch 7.1 addons will not be able to read player position in the world. This means all addons like Archi radar weak aura or ERT Kormrok positions will be dead and buried. Simple things like range checks too.

What I wonder is whether they will adjust mechanics to reflect this change. Archi progress time alone for guilds outside top 50 would probably double if this was to go live in WoD.

My understanding is that this doesn't affect simple range checks. You don't need position data to get range, you just need to know whether you can cast the spell or not. Not 100% on that, but range checks have been in the game since launch. I'd be surprised if that got yanked after 12 years.

The position checker stuff is pretty silly though. If an addon can bypass an entire mechanic, that's probably not right.

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personally i wish they ban all raid mods, they are not needed.....

i have gotten to 4/13 mythic with no mods, and i am mostly limited on time/guild.....

It does seem like there is an arms race between boss mechanics and addons. Removing them would level the playing field, but mods have been a big thing in WoW since launch. Kinda doubt they will get removed.

[Arthas242]

My understanding is that this doesn't affect simple range checks. You don't need position data to get range, you just need to know whether you can cast the spell or not. Not 100% on that, but range checks have been in the game since launch. I'd be surprised if that got yanked after 12 years.

The position checker stuff is pretty silly though. If an addon can bypass an entire mechanic, that's probably not right.

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It does seem like there is an arms race between boss mechanics and addons. Removing them would level the playing field, but mods have been a big thing in WoW since launch. Kinda doubt they will get removed.

i get annoyed by groups saying NEED ISKAR ASSIT OR NO INVITE! or ext....



if you can't watch a debuff without a add on telling you to throw it...... just seems like your very bad imo......

i have always managed to do good dps and watch mechanics of a fight and it always annoys me most people can't do it....*without a add-on telling them every step by step*

i refuse to use add-ons except literally just customization of my interface *like 3d portraits, i use to use a action bar/bag mod but i went back to using default UI, and other things like mogit which are now gone because blizzard made a better version of it.

but i will never download DBM/raid add-ons because i feel it makes me a worse player by not training my self for the fight *cause most of the time i see people with add-ons screw up constantly while i am add-on free clearing the fight (even seen this in my former guild where we got 4/13 mythic before i ended up quiting due to RL interfering with raiding)

[Youn]

This only effects items which give positional data in a dungeon or raid instance. That allows you to know the position and facing of the boss and people on the minimap. Thereby telling you things like were to move or how to spread out to avoid hitting other people with beams. What addons it might effect is minimaps addons in general. And of course radar and some weakaura's specially coded to use that function. People will figure a way to get around it I bet with things like checking to see if a item can be used on another person and drawing circles around them.

[Gaucho-]

How is it bad design that a raid team has to keep an eye on the fight and their teammates instead of having their head buried in a UI element? Do people really think that you can't eyeball stuff like this with some time and practice?

Did you play melee on mythic Archimonde pre nerfs? Or did you have any special jobs like collecting fire?

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This only effects items which give positional data in a dungeon or raid instance. That allows you to know the position and facing of the boss and people on the minimap. Thereby telling you things like were to move or how to spread out to avoid hitting other people with beams. What addons it might effect is minimaps addons in general. And of course radar and some weakaura's specially coded to use that function. People will figure a way to get around it I bet with things like checking to see if a item can be used on another person and drawing circles around them.

Bandage range, interact & inspect range were used in TBC.