Addons won't be able to access player position in 7.1

[Deleted]

Bliizard if they wanted, could easily detect what you are doing while playing. Valve has been doing it for years with their Valve Anti-Cheat.

In February 2014, rumors spread that the system was monitoring websites users had visited by accessing their DNS cache. Gabe Newell responded via Reddit, clarifying that the purpose of the check was to act as a secondary counter-measure to detect kernel level cheats, and that it affected one tenth of one percent of clients checked which resulted in 570 bans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat

The ToS covers anything Blizzard wants it to cover basically when it comes to bans, because it states that they can do so for any reason.

Sure, they can. But the question is how effective would that be.
They would need to check screenshots taken by Warden if they had anything displayed. Which for one would be a huge amount of data and could possibly go against so many privacy laws that Blizzard could go down in flames if people start to sue them.

Working on a purely visual level is hard to detect and has the problem of privacy. Trust me, Blizzard would not want to mess with that until they are absolutely sure they will not get fucked by this.

[Kelxin]

Anything that is overwriting video memory of content that blizzard is displaying is fair game for them to monitor. Vent doing an overlay? Bliz can check that. your Logitech keyboard doing an overlay? Bliz can check that. Anything that pops up in front of the game they can see through calls to the video card direct x overlay API and is considered 100% fair play in the gaming industry as it could possibly have direct impact on the playability and stability of the game. The ToS states anything that is a 3rd party program that has ANY impact on the game can be considered banable. Most multiboxer 3rd party programs "could" be considered banable but Blizzard has been "kind" enough to look the other way. (not only that, all those additional subscriptions bring in a decent bit)

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Working on a purely visual level is hard to detect and has the problem of privacy.

Sure as hell isn't hard to detect.... and privacy, what do they care? They have their IP to worry about.

[Deleted]

Anything that is overwriting video memory of content that blizzard is displaying is fair game for them to monitor. Vent doing an overlay? Bliz can check that. your Logitech keyboard doing an overlay? Bliz can check that. Anything that pops up in front of the game they can see through calls to the video card direct x overlay API and is considered 100% fair play in the gaming industry as it could possibly have direct impact on the playability and stability of the game. The ToS states anything that is a 3rd party program that has ANY impact on the game can be considered banable. Most multiboxer 3rd party programs "could" be considered banable but Blizzard has been "kind" enough to look the other way. (not only that, all those additional subscriptions bring in a decent bit)

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Sure as hell isn't hard to detect.... and privacy, what do they care? They have their IP to worry about.

You think? Why do a lot of D3 Bots still work and not get banned instantly? At least one of them uses such an overlay and Blizzard has not used your "easy" concept of calling the overlay API.

Trust me, if you challenge some people they will beat you until you sit crying in a corner because they have the brain and the dedication.

Privacy concerns often trump IP concerns. At least in the EU.

And again people only would get back what they already had and was considered fair game. Blizzard will only look bad.

[Kelxin]

You think? Why do a lot of D3 Bots still work and not get banned instantly? At least one of them uses such an overlay and Blizzard has not used your "easy" concept of calling the overlay API.

Trust me, if you challenge some people they will beat you until you sit crying in a corner because they have the brain and the dedication.

Privacy concerns often trump IP concerns. At least in the EU.

And again people only would get back what they already had and was considered fair game. Blizzard will only look bad.

You really think Bliz cares about D3 anymore? You seem very focused on that game ... Most of your life soaked into it?

As far as privacy in the EU, you might have missed all of the government scandals and other crap over the past couple years. Privacy out here REALLY isn't what you're trying to make it out to be.

Yes, we saw how the "brain and dedication" worked for overwatch as thousands of script kiddies threw a tempertantrum and DDoS'd blizzard with other people's tools. I'm a network engineer and programmer, so yes, I do believe that whatever man has made, man can break, but again, that man can get broken too... It's a viscous circle that will never end, just like cops vs bad guys.

[Deleted]

You really think Bliz cares about D3 anymore? You seem very focused on that game ... Most of your life soaked into it?

As far as privacy in the EU, you might have missed all of the government scandals and other crap over the past couple years. Privacy out here REALLY isn't what you're trying to make it out to be.

Yes, we saw how the "brain and dedication" worked for overwatch as thousands of script kiddies threw a tempertantrum and DDoS'd blizzard with other people's tools. I'm a network engineer and programmer, so yes, I do believe that whatever man has made, man can break, but again, that man can get broken too... It's a viscous circle that will never end, just like cops vs bad guys.

Nope, it's just the best example of a Blizzard game that has such 3rd party software I know of.
I know you don't understand references for the use in arguments, but at least try.

Missed none of them, doesn't mean that the courts are so corrupt they ignore due process

DDoS are not comparable to visual computing. Get your examples right. And it's not about breaking, it's about building around systems you dislike. Like working with a handicap

[Pua]

Shits gonna get a bit harder now.

I don't think that's the intention. Raiding is already hard enough; it doesn't need another difficulty hike and, in fact, it actually needs the opposite.

But I suspect the plan here is to dial back mandatory mods that actually force ever more complicated mechanics that challenge mods, rather than players. It's the right approach.

If Legion delivers on the pace of content the designers are talking about, it could well end up being a real golden age.

Fingers crossed.

[Gorgodeus]

Sure, they can. But the question is how effective would that be.
They would need to check screenshots taken by Warden if they had anything displayed. Which for one would be a huge amount of data and could possibly go against so many privacy laws that Blizzard could go down in flames if people start to sue them.

Working on a purely visual level is hard to detect and has the problem of privacy. Trust me, Blizzard would not want to mess with that until they are absolutely sure they will not get fucked by this.

Not that hard to determine what programs are running on a PC.

[Pua]

What I am arguing is, flex was added not because we needed a difficulty easier than normal but rather because between Wrath and MoP we had lost the normal difficulty. The 10m Normal difficulty from Wrath did not exist in Cata and MoP; 10/25man Normal in Cata and Wrath was as hard or harder than 10HC/25man Normal from Wrath (and Heroic was as hard or harder than 25HC and universally harder than 25man from TBC). Flex added back that difficulty and then got back the original name.

That's quite a good summary, actually.

[Deleted]

Not that hard to determine what programs are running on a PC.

Wanna bet there are people out there, that can randomize the process name and signature?

[Mehrunes]

I know many players that are playing on both, private and official realms. Blizzard is closing topics where 1000s of players are asking for a separate reboot realm that will run TBC. So nope, its not flawed...

Yes, let's not address the part that makes it flawed whatsoever and instead boggle down on even smaller sample sizes. That makes sense.

Actually they were, you actually had to play spec and use that spec every possible ability. We don't have to CC in raid and dungeons for 5+ years now....

Yeah, no. Jokes about Warlock SB spam didn't pop up out of nowhere. And it wasn't the lone case.

Oh yeah we got a wardrobe thing. A big reason to farm old dungeons and raids... As I druids I dont know how to react to that....

Weird, I recall you whining about Garrisons in the previous post. I guess it's not a feature because you don't like it /s

To you it was a hassle to me it was fun thing to do and a reason to farm old dungeons that were hard and challenge even with the bis gear...So what if the piece of gear is blue or green. I don't see a reason why color of the gear makes difference if that item is better for certain fight than epic item?! Because calculating the what spell you need to cast so you don't take aggro or run out of mana, now you can spam what ever spell you wont and that wont happen.

Vanilla dungeons were hard and a challenge only if you had multiple lobotomies in the past. And running outdated content that isn't challenging if you actually know what you're doing (maybe use every possible ability you have, hurr durr) isn't compelling content. Swapping your gear for shite isn't compelling content either. And it doesn't make the encounter any more challenging, so it's effectively pointless. Wooo, high damage, let's completely bypass it by wearing low level crap. Dat difficulty and engaging mechanics. Also, using spell ranks designed for lower level players is stupid design and makes the actual spells that were designed for top levels obsolete. And no one used low rank DPS spells. Healers can OOM just fine.

Not really, I don't see a reason why spell wouldn't miss. Now you don't have to worry about anuthing, really anything. You don't can;'t over agrro, you cant lose mana, you can't miss.... amazing....

You don't see a reason why AoE spells wouldn't miss? Really? Maybe because the mob stands in the middle of Rain of Fire/Blizzards/etc.? Also, many single target spells aren't projectiles that I suppose could miss if the character was an idiot, but are applied directly to the target. How the hell can that miss? And woo, now that I have 5100 hit I can't miss either. So compelling /s

Well it is related to his I need best gear to kill boss. No you don't, bis gear just helps you do it without much effort...

Which is present not in the post you replied to but in your idea of what you were replying to. Hint: the latter makes no sense.

[Deleted]

Completely different systems. Microsoft OWNS the entire OS, so everything is fair play for them. Blizzard has no right to scan what else is running on my PC. They are free to check the memory space they are using, but nothing else.

*cough* I don't think you've ever looked at what Warden scans ;-) Hint - it's more than just the memoryspace in which Blizzard's own code executes. In fact it's not limited to memory.

There's no law against it. Especially since you agreed to their Terms of Service.

But anyhow.. I guess you really want to discuss 3rd party botting programs and this thread has just completely derailed into idiocy at this point. I'll ask a mod to close it.

[Deleted]

*cough* I don't think you've ever looked at what Warden scans ;-) Hint - it's more than just the memoryspace in which Blizzard's own code executes. In fact it's not limited to memory.

There's no law against it. Especially since you agreed to their Terms of Service.

There are still ways around that. Sandboxing Warden along with the client. A VM that is the target of the visual aid.

And this doesn't have anything to do with the discussion how this change will affect the game.

I just pointed out, that there are other ways to get the same effect and if Blizzard doesn't design their game so these addons are no longer needed, they will come back in an other form.

[Gorgodeus]

Wanna bet there are people out there, that can randomize the process name and signature?

You think that is the only way to detect them? lol

[Deleted]

You think that is the only way to detect them? lol

And you think people don't know ways around it? Trust me, for every measure there is an counter-measure. So just stop your stupid attempt at an argument, and tell me why these visual aids would not be used, if the encounter design stays the same it is now?

[Deleted]

And you think people don't know ways around it? Trust me, for every measure there is an counter-measure. So just stop your stupid attempt at an argument, and tell me why these visual aids would not be used, if the encounter design stays the same it is now?

Same reason rotation bots are not.

[Deleted]

Same reason rotation bots are not.

Bots automate game input.
AddOns that just give a visual hint what to press next are fair play.

We are not talking about the visual aid doing anything more, then just displaying the information AddOns currently can.

/edit: Just to be clear Rotation Addons like https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/ovale and https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/hedd are fair play.
So a visual aid that displayed them as an game overlay would be okay, too.

So WHY would people not get a visual aid, that just displays information AddOns can (or could)?

[Luckx]

that sucks it wont make game harder but simply less comfortable

during WOTLK we had no problems with having addons like DBM

[Gorgodeus]

Bots automate game input.
AddOns that just give a visual hint what to press next are fair play.

We are not talking about the visual aid doing anything more, then just displaying the information AddOns currently can.

/edit: Just to be clear Rotation Addons like https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/ovale and https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/hedd are fair play.
So a visual aid that displayed them as an game overlay would be okay, too.

So WHY would people not get a visual aid, that just displays information AddOns can (or could)?

A rotation bot does your rotation for you. We are not talking about addons such as Ovale. Rotation bots users have been banned. Any programs that bypass limitations that Blizzard has set are grounds for bans, as well. Stop trying to act like there will be a huge influx of illegal programs just because Blizzard decided to stop certain addons from interacting with the game in a way that Blizzard does not like.

But hey, feel free to use such things. I am sure getting banned will be worth it.

Hint: Any 3rd party programs that affect WoW are not allowed.

[pucca]

In other cases blizzard have a lesser known ability to blacklist an addon, down to a specific version.
It was done once with one gearscore version which was detrimental due to hugely excessive data communication.

GearScore was blacklisted? AFAIK they only limited/throttled inspect requests.

they'll revert it when players start complaining and unsubbing

Not if they design bosses around not having a range radar.
Simple range estimates using IsSpellInRange will still work.

[Deleted]

A rotation bot does your rotation for you. We are not talking about addons such as Ovale. Rotation bots users have been banned. Any programs that bypass limitations that Blizzard has set are grounds for bans, as well. Stop trying to act like there will be a huge influx of illegal programs just because Blizzard decided to stop certain addons from interacting with the game in a way that Blizzard does not like.

But hey, feel free to use such things. I am sure getting banned will be worth it.

Hint: Any 3rd party programs that affect WoW are not allowed.

Yes you talk about BOTS and I talk about ADDON-LIKE Functionality.
Illegal?! Are you so freaking stupid? They maybe against the ToS but FAR from illegal.

They don't "affect" WoW, they just read visuals and display visuals on an overlay. Like a TS3 Overlay so you can see who is talking, doesn't affect the game in any way shape or form.