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  1. #101
    Ppl said addons were next after the camera change , there were right

    edit: i love elitist is now being used as some sort of insult, hilarious stuff.
    Last edited by Rafalga; 2016-08-21 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #102
    "The team would come up with excuses to send you back so that people could enjoy dungeons, such as Badges or Valor Points, but the gear was still irrelevant."

    Well, that sure is one way to put it.

    "The intent is for augment runes to be a nice bonus to players in Raid Finder, not for Mythic raiders to feel that it is necessary to run Raid Finder."

    Then you failed in your intent. A buff such as that is absolutely necessary for mythic raiders, whereas LFR players wouldn't care. If they only play LFR, then they have no need for it.


    Just come out and say you want geared players to keep queuing so the queues don't completely suck. It's why you haven't put Valor in raids. There's no other reason why you'd do that. It's an understandable goal. I wish they'd own up to it rather than give this PR-speak.

  3. #103
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Arvandor View Post
    then try and learn it. thats real playing.
    "real playing" is learning how to measure distance in a fanatasy-roleplaing-game with magic? And I thought real gaming was about having fun in the games you were playing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper Kazai View Post
    "The team would come up with excuses to send you back so that people could enjoy dungeons, such as Badges or Valor Points, but the gear was still irrelevant."

    Well, that sure is one way to put it.

    "The intent is for augment runes to be a nice bonus to players in Raid Finder, not for Mythic raiders to feel that it is necessary to run Raid Finder."

    Then you failed in your intent. A buff such as that is absolutely necessary for mythic raiders, whereas LFR players wouldn't care. If they only play LFR, then they have no need for it.


    Just come out and say you want geared players to keep queuing so the queues don't completely suck. It's why you haven't put Valor in raids. There's no other reason why you'd do that. It's an understandable goal. I wish they'd own up to it rather than give this PR-speak.
    Because telling the good people, that they are the only things that keep the LFR running would be an embarrassing statement to the status of LFR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalga View Post
    Ppl said addons were next after the camera change , there were right

    edit: i love elitist is now being used as some sort of insult, hilarious stuff.
    Of course they were right, once you see someone breaking someones arm with no reason, you know they soon will break more bones then just this one...

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Yeah must be hard having to actually put some effort in instead of being spoonfed now eh?
    Yeah, because with the help of addons you hadn't put enough effort for an encounter, seems legit. Maybe if the addon killed the boss instead of you.

    Archimonde mythic became trivial because of the help of the addons... Wait... Not.ű

    This is like about flying and camera distance. If I want to use it, why they are disallow me to use it? It's just retarded.

    And who say "spoonfed" and other bullshits can easily turn the addons off, and play the fights with extra effort.

    But, taking this away from good, but not TOP players, could ruin the game experience. Totally worth it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    AddOns aren't cheats

    Indeed, they should remove macro's that play the game with the press of a few buttons instead !!! specially in pvp !
    Claiming that your operating system is the best in the world because more people use it is like saying McDonalds makes the best food in the world.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Sargnagel View Post
    "real playing" is learning how to measure distance in a fanatasy-roleplaing-game with magic? And I thought real gaming was about having fun in the games you were playing...
    Having those kinds of holistic skills is very valuable, it shows situational awareness and the ability to quickly assess circumstances. Far more valuable than the ability to turret out a memorized rotation while staring at your GPS.

    That you don't think that's 'real gaming' says more about you than anything, really.

  7. #107
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzet View Post
    Having those kinds of holistic skills is very valuable, it shows situational awareness and the ability to quickly assess circumstances. Far more valuable than the ability to turret out a memorized rotation while staring at your GPS.

    That you don't think that's 'real gaming' says more about you than anything, really.
    What you listed has nothing to do with having a fucking tape measure in your eyes. Or can you really tell the difference between 14 and 15 yards/meters in WoW without any help?

    The things you mentioned are useful to find where to go to keep the needed distance, but help not with getting the right distance.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGregor3 View Post
    He is talking about the need to have Runes as raider and how that forces you to do LFR or buy them, nothing about titanforged gear.

    //inb4 discussion about being forced//
    Thought I suppose the augment runes won't be what forces us to do LFR, given that loot from it will now have a random chance to be superior to mythic gear.
    You missed this. They're saying Runes won't force you, but the small chance of gear upgrades will.

    //reading comprehension//
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalOS View Post
    I really don't think you guys get the true extent of what they are breaking here. They aren't just breaking fancy lines and arrows. They are literally reverting the range checker back to the BC range checker. No radar, no dots. Just a list of names that are 10, 11, 15 or 28 yards away. There is no range 5 or range 6 anymore. it's inspect range, interact range, bandage range, type hacks. and yes those range checkers were hacks at best. Not very accurate and certainly not very customizable. Have to spread out 20 people with range 6? sorry not gonna happen anymore have to use range 10 even though it's much larger than actual requirement because range 6 requires unit positions.

    Do you like spam? no, well too bad. Can't check unit positions, don't know if you're on the boat, or the platform. Mogu side or mantid? top of galakras tower or on road. etc. Can't check position, filters are GONE. Can't use smart location checks to go "this player only needs to know what's going on for boat". Now, timers and warnings for ALL yay!.

    Their fix is stupid and not well thought out. if they wanted to break arrows and stuff they could have just broke something else like detecting player facing/angle, not breaking unit position checks. This is going to have side effects that are really dumb and a huge step backwards.
    Absolutely this. Spot on.

  10. #110
    Deleted
    Ohh my dear lord if legendaries are random....


    There is a huge difference between an unholy DK that sometimes gets a movement speed boost during disabling abilities and then being able to pop 6-8 extra festering wounds per hit.


    No... not just huge.. its the difference between sitting out or being the #1 dps.

  11. #111
    Deleted
    Poor Blizzard tries so hard yet continues to fail. Legion will be the same as wod. Many people will fall for the hype until they see all the flaws and slowly start droping.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Sargnagel View Post
    What you listed has nothing to do with having a fucking tape measure in your eyes. Or can you really tell the difference between 14 and 15 yards/meters in WoW without any help?

    The things you mentioned are useful to find where to go to keep the needed distance, but help not with getting the right distance.
    Of course you can, but then you've been using these addons as a crutch for so long your skills have atrophied. Atrophied to the point that you don't even believe something like that is possible.

    You have some catching up to do, but fret not, it's very doable for anyone who wishes to apply themselves.

  13. #113
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzet View Post
    Of course you can, but then you've been using these addons as a crutch for so long your skills have atrophied. Atrophied to the point that you don't even believe something like that is possible.

    You have some catching up to do, but fret not, it's very doable for anyone who wishes to apply themselves.
    Oh I know it's possible, but why do I need that "skill"? Where is the value in knowing how to do so?
    So I can do now, what addons made trivial years ago?
    That's like saying we shouldn't use robots to assemble cars, because we loose the skills to assemble cars. It's idiotic!

    Make the game a challenge and not a pointless exercise in pixel-counting.

  14. #114
    Because every game is fundamentally about testing your ability to master some arbitrary skillset, that it can be done better by programming or automation is besides the point. We assemble cars in the fastest, most efficient way because that's a for-profit industry defined by economic pressures, gaming is not comparable at all.

    It's kind of like the Olympics, to be topical. Is there a point in being good at running when you can show up with a motorcycle? Why learn to play tennis when you can build a robot that serves so fast it's impossible to return? It's a game, you're deliberately competing within a limited framework to demonstrate your mastery within that framework.

    So, it's just a medium for demonstrating an arbitrary skillset. Maybe it's raw power, or hand eye coordination. Likewise, the 'point' of a boss fight is not to down a boss for its own sake, you may as well hack the server and ".kill" command the boss if that's all you care about. It's about doing so while demonstrating a skill, like being able to analyze a situation and think quickly on your feet to put yourself in the right place at the right time. If you're relying on an addon to write you that script, that defeats the entire purpose of the challenge.
    Last edited by Mizzet; 2016-08-21 at 03:27 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Psykee View Post
    Ohh my dear lord if legendaries are random....


    There is a huge difference between an unholy DK that sometimes gets a movement speed boost during disabling abilities and then being able to pop 6-8 extra festering wounds per hit.


    No... not just huge.. its the difference between sitting out or being the #1 dps.
    Yea, I get their end of it though. If it's a token and you get the specific one you want then you stop doing things that net that token. Less time you spend playing then eventually get the complaints. My issue is more of the fact that there's SO many legendaries already and they're going to add more from the sound of it. It would be one thing if say each spec had two that altered stat weights/gameplay/builds. But each spec has numerous ones plus the non spec related ones like the boots that increase move speed by haste. it's a flawed system yes, but it's still better than picking what you want. The bigger problem is the effect these will have on performance in a raid setting. I don't think they should be usable until halfway through a tier in Mythic raiding at the earliest.

  16. #116
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzet View Post
    You could just get better, have people really forgotten how to play without addons holding their hand? The game would be much better if raiding addons were as sanitized as in FFXIV - yes they have parsers there, but it provides recount and TellMeWhen'esque functionality at most.
    ACT that people use for FF14 can be customized to give pretty much the same callouts as DBM did a few expansions back. FF14 bosses work on a very strict x ability happens every y seconds so its very easy to set up ACT to give you callouts when boss attacks are about to happen, why you get a certain buff/debuff. Its not as advanced as DBM but it can be set up for similar functionality, and yes the top guilds Elysium etc have it set it up for callouts you can hear in their clear vids.

    Theres the Overleylines ECHO project which actually tells you what to do in the fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCQMSlnd_jU

    You also have to remember FF14s boss mechanics are about as complex than dungeon boss mechanics in WoW, they are just far more punishing.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    How would this make Legion worse? If anything it would make it better. No need for dumb addons to hold a players hand, and people who are good enough to play without those addons will get properly rewarded.
    It is kinda of true, I have played without add-ons since 2004 except for like mogit which gives you no benefit outside of telling you if you have an appearance or not. I have even been top DPS and heals raiding in the past before heroics were introduced with no add-ons when shit was considered "Harder" lol, like WoW was ever hard, it is like anything sequential, you practice and rinse and repeat and get amazing at it, it is a repetition based game.
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  18. #118
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzet View Post
    Because every game is fundamentally about testing your ability to master some arbitrary skillset, that it can be done better by programming or automation is besides the point. We assemble cars in the fastest, most efficient way because that's a for-profit industry defined by economic pressures, gaming is not comparable at all.

    It's kind of like the Olympics, to be topical. Is there a point in being good at running when you can show up with a motorcycle? Why learn to play tennis when you can build a robot that serves so fast it's impossible to return? It's a game, you're deliberately competing within a limited framework to demonstrate your mastery within that framework.

    So, it's just a medium for demonstrating an arbitrary skillset. Maybe it's raw power, or hand eye coordination. Likewise, the 'point' of a boss fight is not to down a boss for its own sake, you may as well hack the server and ".kill" command the boss if that's all you care about. It's about doing so while demonstrating a skill, like being able to analyze a situation and think quickly on your feet to put yourself in the right place at the right time. If you're relying on an addon to write you that script, that defeats the entire purpose of the challenge.
    Ahem no...That`s not a game then, that`s a competition. "Game: a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure"
    For pleasure...The Olympics is not for pleasure, if you need demonstrate your mastery not a pleasure either...

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Ahem no...That`s not a game then, that`s a competition. "Game: a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure"
    For pleasure...The Olympics is not for pleasure, if you need demonstrate your mastery not a pleasure either...
    I'd argue that the Olympics is a series of games done competitively, so is raiding/high level pvp. On a different scale, but games can definitely be competitive.


    Hey look there is more than one definition of game.

    game ɡām/
    noun

    1 - a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

    2 - a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other


    Lets go to the olympics website. https://www.olympic.org

    Last edited by deadman1; 2016-08-21 at 05:40 PM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by cateran View Post
    Ahem no...That`s not a game then, that`s a competition. "Game: a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure"
    For pleasure...The Olympics is not for pleasure, if you need demonstrate your mastery not a pleasure either...
    Then what the hell would you call ESports? Which is literally playing a VIDEO GAME in a competitive space to prove your mastery. Also, are you really that arrogant to be trying to dictate just who gets pleasure out of which activity?

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