Addons won't be able to access player position in 7.1

[Deleted]

#1 welp, please stop making this a "we want vanilla"-shit thread, thanks snowflake

6-8mill hardly.... I think there are less than 3mill active players atm, so yeah 400k is fucking a lot for a fucking content that has been outdate for 9 fucking years....

#2 believing this shithole had EVER 400k active subs is simple stupid.

[Deleted]

I understand why they did it and as long as the mechanics are still good I don't mind.

They need to kind of kill some mechanics to account for this tho. Strict spreading requirements in a small room shouldn't exist without a range finder and a Mark of the Legion just flat out can't exist without some sort of addon doing the heavy lifting.

Aye.

It had basically become an arms race of the sort of a sense.

They knew we had access to some fantastic LUA coders and to actually make the encounter difficult, they had to introduce such elements of gameplay that are basically virtually impossible to raid-lead.

I mean try stacking up 4 different groups of players in even stacks dependant on proximity and whom of, 1 will have a debuff that explodes and it has to happen in a way that they take damage in a matter that they wont get killed by it and in a timely fashion that by the time it blows, people are actually there and not still running from somewhere.

Without a program operating that for you, it just can't be done. You can lay down some framework for the players to follow dependant on a couple of variables at the heat of the moment such as how far you are from a designated marker. If you're close to marker X, you go X, etc. But it leaves so many open endings that it still creates an unsourmountably large %-tage of wipes due to random chance. Especially considering that the debuffs last a different duration and are applied at random. Meaning that the person can actually be so far off that it's just well, impossible.

In other words, in my opinion, such a change is welcome. But, only, if it is also accompanied with the proper mechanics along with it. Because if we get something like Mark of the Legion coming again... it'll make some fights unnecessarily difficult. Wherein the difficulty isn't in any real skill but more of a matter of luck if you know what I mean.

[Life-Binder]

this was loooong overdue

[Deleted]

they should disable all addons until server firsts. some addons are borderline cheating nowdays

[Deleted]

Well, good. People shouldn't be downing bosses on the first couple of tries, it completely defeats the concept of hard/challenging content and achievement.

Okay, where is the skill-check challenge in having the right estimate of 25 yards? How do you need the skill for that?
That has always been what addons did, they removed the non-skill elements of fights.
It doesn't take any skill to stand 25 yards apart, except for the right guess how far 25 yards are. Which, one figured out, no longer a skill for other encounters!

It's a one-time get the distance right thing an then don't forget it.

But his has nothing to do with tactics or skill. That would be provided by mechanics that effect each other, either in a positive or negative way. Screw up mechanic one? You need to nail two, otherwise you die.
Or you soaked the damage of mechanic one instead of spreading out? Okay, now mechanic 2 does only 50% of it's damage.

With such synergys you get different tactics for different groups, a group with strong heals probably has an easier time soaking the damage then a more mobile group.

[Magicpot]

I really hope that they balance around this change, and no longer make bosses where you have tons of position related non-telegraph things going on at once that you have minimal time to react to (Looking at you, Archimonde mythic, and you, kormrok mythic).

Getting the lasers right on archi mythic has very little to do with skill, without an addon telling you its just a game of "How well does my estimate of how wide this beam is align with the game mechanics?"

There are so many "virtual arms race" mechanics in HFC - Mechanics that are designed around the expectation that you have an addon do your positioning for you.

Examples:

- Mark of the Legion (Archimonde Mythic)
- Chaos Beams (Archimonde Mythic)
- Splashes (Kormrok Mythic)
- Empowered Chains and Fire (Xhul'Horac Mythic)


And before anyone comes with "GIT GUD back in my day in classic we didn't have those", well, in classic the highest amount of spatial awareness anyone has had to have was move out with a debuff or move out of the fire or move to the other side if your polarity shifts (by todays standards, hilariously easy, but back then it took some serious learning to get it going on any consistent basis).

[Deleted]

I understand the point in disabling UnitPosition in raids, but why the hell disable it in dungeons too? 5man content is casual non-competitive content.

[Deleted]

Wanna bet there are people out there, that can randomize the process name and signature?

Wanna bet you have no idea how any of this works, not even a tiny bit ?

That proccess will still make calls to the client which is a lot easier to monitor...

Your little lawsuit fantasy mean nothing either, go contact a lawyer about it.
You can't contract out of law (like blizz TOS tries) but in the real world, you can't do shit about it without a massive class action, which won't happen for so many reasons...

And to finally kill your little bossland hype... Blizzard managed to find their reverse engineer (pretty much the only one capable of coding against warden on whole bossland team) and sued the fuck out of him. He aint working with anything botting related anymore.
That's also why you've had 3 pretty close banwaves the last year.
There's no tripwire, there's no warden detection anymore...
Not to mentioned the other unreleased bossland IP's, blizz stole source code for as well...

Blizzard does whatever they want at this point.

[Gorsameth]

I understand the point in disabling UnitPosition in raids, but why the hell disable it in dungeons too? 5man content is casual non-competitive content.

Because Mythic+ is no longer casual non-competitive content

[ComputerNerd]

GearScore was blacklisted? AFAIK they only limited/throttled inspect requests.



Not if they design bosses around not having a range radar.
Simple range estimates using IsSpellInRange will still work.

Radar showing their positions is very different from a yes or no indicator.
Means you have to look at the players in the world to judge positions, as intended.
And it was a specific version they blacklisted, one they didn't have a solution for at the time.
The addon communication improvements came later.

[Gorgodeus]

I understand the point in disabling UnitPosition in raids, but why the hell disable it in dungeons too? 5man content is casual non-competitive content.

Not when it comes to Mythic+. That changed the entire 5 man landscape.

[Ragetacular]

If you think about it, theyve only designed super precise positioning mechanics because of addons. Shit like archimonde lasers etc, would not be possible without addon support.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with this change, but are you actually implying that mythic archi took no skill outside of addons?

No. I'm stating that without that addon, it would've been close to impossible and that's simply not OK in my opinion.
It's a game and people should be able to play a game without a bunch of third party addons and without having to calculate exactly X yards between players, lines, triangles and whatnot.

[deadman1]

No. I'm stating that without that addon, it would've been close to impossible and that's simply not OK in my opinion.
It's a game and people should be able to play a game without a bunch of third party addons and without having to calculate exactly X yards between players, lines, triangles and whatnot.

I agree, that is due to them having to work design around addons existing.

[Tabrotar]

You know they stated that they don´t change anything regarding the things like stand ... feets apart and so on right?
So they´re not changing the way they´re designing the encounters they´re just making them more diffifult.

[Ketho]

GearScore was blacklisted? AFAIK they only limited/throttled inspect requests.

Some versions of GearScore were blacklisted

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...9FAuGyqpdM6fe8
https://wow.curseforge.com/addons/gearscore/files/

[Kelxin]

Nope, it's just the best example of a Blizzard game that has such 3rd party software I know of.
I know you don't understand references for the use in arguments, but at least try.

Missed none of them, doesn't mean that the courts are so corrupt they ignore due process

DDoS are not comparable to visual computing. Get your examples right. And it's not about breaking, it's about building around systems you dislike. Like working with a handicap

Glad to see you're not intellectually capable of understanding the conversation I was attempting to have, but I'll try to make the last point before giving up on your poor attempts to troll. A reference is used when it actually has correlating points and arguments that are relevant to a specific topic, when someone doesn't care about an object or in this case, a piece of software that they once produced, there is no reason to defend it from attacks. So glad you failed that topic.

Due process has nothing to do with the topic of privacy laws at all. Definition: fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement.

And last but not least, I was talking about the idiots that DDoS'd blizzard after they got banned, like you will after this patch goes live and you try to use a third party addon because you suck at life. https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/29/ove...ttle-net-ddos/

[Deleted]

Not when it comes to Mythic+. That changed the entire 5 man landscape.

Mythic+ dungeons may not be casual, but they're still non-competitive. It's likely that their true intention is trying to artificially slow down people's rate of content consumption speed, because expansions have to last for 2+ years now.

[Drusin]

And to compensate for this, Blizz will no longer make spacial awareness fights anymore, beyond flashy telegraphs... :P

This lol, bet gold there won't be any mechanics like this, and if there are distance mechanics then they won't be punishing.

[Krille]

Entirely a misunderstanding.

I welcome the change too, as I said elsewhere in this thread.

The post you quoted doesn't say whether I like or dislike the change, or anything else. The post you quoted is an entirely seperate issue. Since you couldn't read it the first time, i'll type it out again and maybe you'll understand it this time.

In this thread there exists a group of people who think that Mythic is made easier by addons. In some cases, this is not the case. In some cases, like Archimonde's Lazers on mythic, it makes the fight POSSIBLE. As in, no one would kill Archimonde without artificially overcoming it (through gear, class stacking, nerfs to the boss)

If you want to dispute that point, run back to Sloot and ask him if Archimonde Mythic would be progressable in reasonable gear levels, without addons to help with the lazers.

If you want a quick hint, he'll say no.

These bosses are designed with addons in mind. Addons do not make them easier, addons are PART of the actual boss. Blizzard doesn't like this, so it wants to break the addon.

My beef is with the people who haven't killed a raid boss in heroic or mythic mode ever, throwing their chest out "good, now the bosses won't be a piss take"

The best guilds in the world threw 600 attempts at Archimonde in a week and deemed it impossible without addons. Every other guild to progress it pre nerf, will and has done the same.

Yes i did read it. You come off as thinking raiding will be impossible without these addons. He (Sloot) said during the interview that there are similar (to Archimonde lazer) bosses already in The Nighthold and nobody knows anything about Gul'Dan yet but Watcher said that Gul'Dan will also have mechanics that could use these addons. It didn't sound like he thought Archimonde would be impossible without these addons, in that interview at least. Now he might say something else off-camera but unless you know the guy you shouldn't talk for him.

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It is not great.
Now people have the carrot and can eat it and have been doing this for years.
What blizzard are doing is keeping the carrot but people now ain't allowed to eat it.

I said it again from my pov it wont make a diffrence but for a person that is a raid leader(i am as well) it will make the pool of players that you can work with smaller.

Allowed or not, they wont be able to as they're breaking the addons, making them do nothing. You wont be able to track player positioning anymroe with addons. Yes i know it will be, but that also means less entitled people that show up to raid with 0 knowledge of bosses turns on addon and cruise along.