Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Hashcrypt]

The icy veins guide says to always reroll for True Bearing post-AR...is anyone doing this? I've been trying to, and sometimes i dump 20+ CP's before i hit it. Not sure if this is optimal or not.

I like the simplicity of just rerolling for 2+ then going about my business.

[kindath]

The icy veins guide says to always reroll for True Bearing post-AR...is anyone doing this? I've been trying to, and sometimes i dump 20+ CP's before i hit it. Not sure if this is optimal or not.

I like the simplicity of just rerolling for 2+ then going about my business.

Short answer: No, keep 2+.

Longer answer: There is some synergy with true bearing during Adrenaline Rush, since you'll be using more finishers = more procs and once you get Blurred Time, the True Bearing effect is effectively increased by 15%. However, Adrenaline Rush also synergizes with basically every other buff just as well, and you'd significantly more upfront damage during AR with, say, shark infested waters and broadsides.

True Bearing by itself gives no immediate damage increase.

If you roll for 2+, at one point you will have a combo with true bearing + one other (ideally, one that increases CP generation), but the overall benefit of True Bearing is not enough anymore to be worth dropping any other 2+ combo for.

EDIT: After reading what it says in the icy veins guide, it looks like what it's saying is "if you have True Bearing currently, activate AR - otherwise wait until you have 2+ buffs before you activate AR," which is reasonable advice (though it's probably just as good to use AR on CD)

- - - Updated - - -

So it's best to just keep rolling RtB and go for 2+ buffs? and i assume it's at 6 combo points everytime, just feels like a huge waste and a huge setback when i roll 1 buff 3 times in a row. when i could have used those combo point on Run Through

5+ with DS, not always 6.

4+ with vigor, 5+ with anticipation, if there's ever situations where you'd use those.

[shaunika123]

Having acrobatic strikes means no hit and run which will eventually be a dps increase with the legendary outlaw boots

symbiote is better dps anyway

[xero93]

lol this spec is such an rng pos, 1 buff rolls 4 times in a row. how is that efficient to keep re rolling?

[kindath]

lol this spec is such an rng pos, 1 buff rolls 4 times in a row. how is that efficient to keep re rolling?

Because when you get a good buff combination (~40% of the time), that good buff will last for 46-54 seconds.

[shaunika123]

lol this spec is such an rng pos, 1 buff rolls 4 times in a row. how is that efficient to keep re rolling?

you rerolled a total of 4 times?

wow that's a huge sample of statistics right there

[elfporn]

lol this spec is such an rng pos, 1 buff rolls 4 times in a row. how is that efficient to keep re rolling?

Any loss of CP investment from rerolling is recouped in the buffs you get. You could reroll 10+ times and it's still a dps increase to reroll until you get 2+ compared to not rerolling.

10+ is an extreme example. I only ever rerolled that often once, and that when fishing for SiW before it got nerfed.

[RobertoCarlos]

Does anyone know if feint talented to reduce all damage by 30% works on the 5% loss of health effect on the artifact skill curse of the dreadblades when you use a finisher?

[Wow]

Does anyone know if feint talented to reduce all damage by 30% works on the 5% loss of health effect on the artifact skill curse of the dreadblades when you use a finisher?

It does and cloak will also make it miss.

[RobertoCarlos]

It does and cloak will also make it miss.

Cheers, handy to know!

[GT4]

Short answer: No, keep 2+.

Longer answer: There is some synergy with true bearing during Adrenaline Rush, since you'll be using more finishers = more procs and once you get Blurred Time, the True Bearing effect is effectively increased by 15%. However, Adrenaline Rush also synergizes with basically every other buff just as well, and you'd significantly more upfront damage during AR with, say, shark infested waters and broadsides.

True Bearing by itself gives no immediate damage increase.

If you roll for 2+, at one point you will have a combo with true bearing + one other (ideally, one that increases CP generation), but the overall benefit of True Bearing is not enough anymore to be worth dropping any other 2+ combo for.

EDIT: After reading what it says in the icy veins guide, it looks like what it's saying is "if you have True Bearing currently, activate AR - otherwise wait until you have 2+ buffs before you activate AR," which is reasonable advice (though it's probably just as good to use AR on CD)

Checked in Simulationcraft for the level 110 T19 pre-raid profile (since pre-patch will be irrelevant in a week anyway):
311,816 (347.4 error) DPS using AR on CD (only when not already up)
310,587 (344.3 error) DPS using AR with 2+ buffs or true bearing up (only when not already up)

This also holds true when adjusting the RtB priority not to reroll true bearing during AR (which, by the way, results in a noticeable DPS loss itself). The only time you'd want change your RtB priority not to reroll true bearing is when using the RT legendary boots (to get more CD reductions on sprint) - even then delaying AR still results in a DPS loss.

tl;dr: Never delay AR. Never keep any single buff unless you have the RT legendary boots or you can't use the full duration of the buffs you'd get (e.g. because the fight ends soon or a transition phase starts soon).

[thadeuhudson1]

So, ideally, after RtB nerf we dont need to keep fishing for Shark anymore.. We only need 2 buffss up (no matter what buff) or true bearing if AR is off cooldown or active, correct?
So, ideally is:
Shark + any other buff > 2 random buff > True Bearing + random buff when AR is active or out of cooldown > True Bearing when AR is active or out of cooldown.
Is that correct?

[elfporn]

So, ideally, after RtB nerf we dont need to keep fishing for Shark anymore.. We only need 2 buffss up (no matter what buff) or true bearing if AR is off cooldown or active, correct?
So, ideally is:
Shark + any other buff > 2 random buff > True Bearing + random buff when AR is active or out of cooldown > True Bearing when AR is active or out of cooldown.
Is that correct?

in multitarget situations i fish for SiW or 2+, else just 2+, and disregard TB completely, use all cooldowns as they come.

[Blayke]

in multitarget situations i fish for SiW or 2+, else just 2+, and disregard TB completely, use all cooldowns as they come.

Funny how reactions vary so widely to TB. The good folks at icy-veins still say it's the best one to have, although I suspect that has more to do with their focus being more on Legion than on the last week of the pre-patch. One aspect of TB that I do like which hasn't really been addressed is that when this is active, it effectively allows you to use death from above every 2nd time you build up your cp's.

Probably not enough to justify keeping it up if it's the only buff, but still more useful than it's usually given credit for.

[shaunika123]

Funny how reactions vary so widely to TB. The good folks at icy-veins still say it's the best one to have, although I suspect that has more to do with their focus being more on Legion than on the last week of the pre-patch. One aspect of TB that I do like which hasn't really been addressed is that when this is active, it effectively allows you to use death from above every 2nd time you build up your cp's.

Probably not enough to justify keeping it up if it's the only buff, but still more useful than it's usually given credit for.

TB is fantastic if you run MfD (which you will/do on most fights)

shark+TB


i just pulled world 2. on reaver as outlaw with shark TB as my roll it's fantastic (ony my alt rogue no less)

with artifact wep it's even better

if you roll it when CotDB is up it basically returns adrush to you in 30 seconds

[Deleted]

TB is fantastic if you run MfD (which you will/do on most fights)

shark+TB


i just pulled world 2. on reaver as outlaw with shark TB as my roll it's fantastic (ony my alt rogue no less)

I'm sure that extra MfD you got from that TB made all the difference in that 28 second Iron Reaver kill. Grats on your rank 2 from the 12 logs with under 30 second kills.

[shaunika123]

I'm sure that extra MfD you got from that TB made all the difference in that 28 second Iron Reaver kill. Grats on your rank 2 from the 12 logs with under 30 second kills.

ok you'e right it's the worst thing ever

whenever you get TB just roll it away, even if you get all the other 5 with it, it's so bad not having it is a dps increase.
and yes when run through is like half your damage and you're nuking into ring, that extra MfD does help a lot.

but whatever sry for trying to give some semblance of proof why it's good.

i guess some people just thrive on spreading misery.

[elfporn]

Funny how reactions vary so widely to TB. The good folks at icy-veins still say it's the best one to have, although I suspect that has more to do with their focus being more on Legion than on the last week of the pre-patch. One aspect of TB that I do like which hasn't really been addressed is that when this is active, it effectively allows you to use death from above every 2nd time you build up your cp's.

Probably not enough to justify keeping it up if it's the only buff, but still more useful than it's usually given credit for.

The information on icy veins has seemed to be out of date lately.

TB is still the worst single proc buff, and on a short fight(like a 28sec iron reaver) it's significantly worse than any of the other buffs, even in combination - on such a short fight(30sec), your best is going to be the triple proc SiW, JR, and broadsides(or for 2 it would be SiW+broadsides), 6 proc is of course better.

Reactions vary widely because much of the information out there is still out of date, even at 110, when tb is a little better than it is now, all the other buffs are still better.

[shaunika123]

The information on icy veins has seemed to be out of date lately.

TB is still the worst single proc buff, and on a short fight(like a 28sec iron reaver) it's significantly worse than any of the other buffs, even in combination - on such a short fight(30sec), your best is going to be the triple proc SiW, JR, and broadsides(or for 2 it would be SiW+broadsides), 6 proc is of course better.

Reactions vary widely because much of the information out there is still out of date, even at 110, when tb is a little better than it is now, all the other buffs are still better.

i agree on the fact that if you have nothing but TB roll it away immediately, but you'll roll away almost any single buff immediately, even shark unless the fight is over soon or you need the immediate damage.

it has good synergy with basically all the other buffs besides grand melee and especially BT and BS

not to mention it's the single best thing to have during CotDB (besides shark maybe)

[thadeuhudson1]

The point is.. A friend of mine is helping me to make a aura to guide me on the 1st weeks on Roll the Bones.. Until yesterday, I didn`t even bothered looking into Outlaw..
I`m still working out the priorities.. I`ll share the aura here when it`s ready and I`d be really glad if you fellas could be very direct and say "This is Wrong, and the reason is..."

So far, this is the priority:
*3+ buffs = Always Keep
*2+ buffs and NONE of them are Grand Melee = Always Keep
*2+ buffs and ONE of them is Grand Melee = Always REROLL
*Shark + Grand Melee = Always Keep (the only exception of the rule above)
*True Bearing buff AND Adrenaline Rush is Active or 5s left on Cooldown = Always Keep
*True Bearing buff, but AR is ON Cooldown = Always REROLL
*True Bearing buff AND Curse of the Dreadblades (off cooldown), but Adrenaline Rush is ON Cooldown " =>20" = Always Keep
*1 buff (even if it Shark) = Always REROLL

Right?