Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
  1. #161
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    20,949
    Quote Originally Posted by striderZA View Post
    Spend 10 minutes reading any warlock forum and that should change anyone's view that players know better than Blizzard. Not saying Blizzard are infallible, and players are always wrong, of course not, but 80% of the posts on here and about 95% of the posts on the official forums relating to class design are pure garbage.
    I recall trying to explain to Celestalon some of the issues with Demo in WoD's development, I think it was AoE specifically, but he wouldn't have any of it until some others backed me up on it. We saw what happened to the spec after that. The developers often don't know the intricacies they create and base a lot on things 'working as intended'; so miss a lot of unintended consequences of their design. It's a huge reason why they're looking to simplify things.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    I think blizzard decided to ignore warlocks for these past 2 expansion since we got so much cool stuff in MoP.
    After Xelnath left/got fired warlocks went at the bottom of the blizzards focus when it comes to developing the class or mechanics. My guess is that the same dev team who was in charge of demon hunters had to do warlocks as well, and instead of offering the same chance to both classes, demon hunters came first on their priority list.
    I think their biggest failure with warlocks is affliction artifact fiasco, we are a pure dps class yet blizzard managed to fail on all 3 of our specs, not a single one of them is exceptional, therefore, no top guild will bring a warlock for progression.
    And this has a knock on effect at lower levels and in pugs, where people would rather bring someone else than a Warlock because the notion that they're bad permeates the entire game, and we all know that 'sub-optimal' becomes 'bad' becomes 'useless' very quickly in the perceptions of the wider playerbase.

  2. #162
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

    The rest are just to counter the retarded notion that there are no good Destruction logs.

    Also - learn2read.
    logs look nice, since this is a pure two target fight. if i recall correctly in mythic we will face all 4 dragons at the same time. my guess would be affli for this kind of situation, since destro wont do any more dmg on 4 targets then it will do on 2 and if all 4 drakes are really up for the whole time affli with 20 stacks of agony on every drake should do fine.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    And this has a knock on effect at lower levels and in pugs, where people would rather bring someone else than a Warlock because the notion that they're bad permeates the entire game, and we all know that 'sub-optimal' becomes 'bad' becomes 'useless' very quickly in the perceptions of the wider playerbase.
    Unfortunately, if warlocks aren't as good as other pure dps classes such as mages, hunters or rogues they won't be invited, why bring a pure dps class if it doesn't brings neither the dmg or the utility.
    Warlocks cant heal or tank, we do dps and in order to be effective we need to to optimal damage, not be under the other pure dps classes by more than 10%.

    Now lets look at the bright side, it seems that for mythic+ warlocks might get a spot due to soulstone, since you can skip certain packs of mobs with battle ress, exploiting..., also talented seeds does good aoe dmg. So for mythic+ dungeons we are decent, when it comes to raids not so much, as I said before fire mages are way stronger than warlocks at the moment both to single target, burst and AoE, thus there's no need to bring any warlock in a 20 man mythic raid.

    Personaly, I will level both my mage and warlock and if blizzard doesn't do anything to help warlocks until Nighthold is live, I will most likely main fire mage.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I recall trying to explain to Celestalon some of the issues with Demo in WoD's development, I think it was AoE specifically, but he wouldn't have any of it until some others backed me up on it. We saw what happened to the spec after that. The developers often don't know the intricacies they create and base a lot on things 'working as intended'; so miss a lot of unintended consequences of their design. It's a huge reason why they're looking to simplify things.
    Agreed; that and the fact that players are often incapable of offering unbiased feedback on their class and in stead tend to complain about subjective experience that does little to reveal an underlying issue. Can't imagine the nightmare to dig through all of the feedback and decide which portion is worth taking a second look at.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwly View Post
    logs look nice, since this is a pure two target fight. if i recall correctly in mythic we will face all 4 dragons at the same time. my guess would be affli for this kind of situation, since destro wont do any more dmg on 4 targets then it will do on 2 and if all 4 drakes are really up for the whole time affli with 20 stacks of agony on every drake should do fine.
    Actually other classes can do that. Okay, not 323k, but in the 290-300k ballpark. Also, this was before the 60%->25% roaring blaze nerf. So everything is alright now.

  6. #166
    Deleted
    What I find absolutely baffling is that Destruction currently (prepatch) outperforms Affliction on council style fights with three targets due to how strong Wreak Havoc is. I don't really see this changing unless Blizzard messes with the tuning of certain abilities. I fully expect them to nerf Wreak Havoc/Havoc to transfer damage partially and buff Destruction's spells to compensate for single target or something along those lines. Having the spec outperform its rival in said rival's dedicated niche is not something I find healthy for the class in general. It simply makes Affliction even less desireable with all its shortcomings.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by 101blubb View Post
    What I find absolutely baffling is that Destruction currently (prepatch) outperforms Affliction on council style fights with three targets due to how strong Wreak Havoc is. I don't really see this changing unless Blizzard messes with the tuning of certain abilities. I fully expect them to nerf Wreak Havoc/Havoc to transfer damage partially and buff Destruction's spells to compensate for single target or something along those lines. Having the spec outperform its rival in said rival's dedicated niche is not something I find healthy for the class in general. It simply makes Affliction even less desireable with all its shortcomings.
    HAH you said BUFF!!! You silly.
    When I was younger I used to hope bad things wouldn't happen.
    Now I just hope they're at least funny when they do.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Coins View Post
    You know they'll just massively buff and nerf specs again once we get 1 or 2 weeks into raiding. It's really just a gamble right now to know which specs will outperform others, it's what makes the whole artifact leveling thing such a concern. For all we know they'll buff Demo or affliction to OP status again and then we'll all be sitting there with our amazing 22+ talent destro artifact weapons. gg
    I heard Ian saying in the past days interviews saying that if they buff the other specs, the spec that outperforms will still be ahead but only by 5% at most to prevent cases like the one you mentioned, where your artifact traits for which you worked the past 3 months on, won't become useless.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,783
    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    I heard Ian saying in the past days interviews saying that if they buff the other specs, the spec that outperforms will still be ahead but only by 5% at most to prevent cases like the one you mentioned, where your artifact traits for which you worked the past 3 months on, won't become useless.
    One thing is to say, another is to achieve.

    I am sure they will still overbuff or overnerf things and not because "Blizzurd is evil", but because it is complicated to do right.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    One thing is to say, another is to achieve.

    I am sure they will still overbuff or overnerf things and not because "Blizzurd is evil", but because it is complicated to do right.
    There will always be winners and losers, on this expansion warlocks draw the short stick when it came to attention from blizzard developers. You can either stay mediocre on DPS meters or re roll to fire mages, hunters or spriests.

    My biggest complain is the fact that they changed warlocks for the sake of change, during MoP we had 3 distinct specs and all 3 played very well, why change something good in something worse?

    Ontopic: destro and affliction are the specs to focus on this expansion, demo is in a bad place right now due to high ramp up when it comes to target switching, unless they buff the numbers of demo by 30% it won't see any play in mythic raids.
    No major mechanic changes are done by blizzard after an expansion goes live, we will have to live this way for the next two years.
    Last edited by n0n3; 2016-08-22 at 01:49 PM.

  11. #171
    Wait, so was there a common consensus reached in this thread? For progression mythic raiding, not mythic dungeons.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If someone told me how to play I'd show them a simulation dps graph made out of dick pics.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcbenchpress View Post
    Wait, so was there a common consensus reached in this thread? For progression mythic raiding, not mythic dungeons.
    We do not know for sure since numbers can change, currently the best spec appears to be destro.

  13. #173
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    20,949
    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    We do not know for sure since numbers can change, currently the best spec appears to be destro.
    Destro has the best toolkit and most versatility too, so it's probably a safe bet regardless.

  14. #174
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Destro has the best toolkit and most versatility too, so it's probably a safe bet regardless.
    Depends if you're purely focused on raiding, if so then 100% destruction seems safest.

    Affliction has a fair bit of breadth though, fantastic out in the world, great in pvp, looks like it's shaping up to be strong in mythic+. I'm sorely tempted to take the leap of faith and play affliction on launch and hope it ends up performing adequately in raiding. Not sure I fancy risking it though since destruction feels like such a safe bet, especially after what Ion implied with not wanting to buff specs ahead of each other in rankings in the short term. My main worry is affliction seems unpleasantly strong in so many other areas I'm worried it's single target will lag behind since blizzard struggle to find a nob to turn that cranks up ST but doesn't make it too good elsewhere. Not a fan of Effigy either.

    Certainly tempting though, I sure don't want to be playing destro in pvp.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Depends if you're purely focused on raiding, if so then 100% destruction seems safest.

    Affliction has a fair bit of breadth though, fantastic out in the world, great in pvp, looks like it's shaping up to be strong in mythic+. I'm sorely tempted to take the leap of faith and play affliction on launch and hope it ends up performing adequately in raiding. Not sure I fancy risking it though since destruction feels like such a safe bet, especially after what Ion implied with not wanting to buff specs ahead of each other in rankings in the short term. My main worry is affliction seems unpleasantly strong in so many other areas I'm worried it's single target will lag behind since blizzard struggle to find a nob to turn that cranks up ST but doesn't make it too good elsewhere. Not a fan of Effigy either.

    Certainly tempting though, I sure don't want to be playing destro in pvp.
    Affliction does really good in mythic 7+ due to sow the seeds talent and with mobs having toons of hp at the mythic 10 your dots have time to do their full dmg.
    If your plan is pvp and mythic 10+ dungeons then go affliction.
    For mythic raiding destro is better.
    Soul Effigy = Prismatic Crystal, they removed a clunky spell from mages and gave it to warlocks, very good job from blizzard devs... You can find plenty of 'good' words from mages regarding this spell.

  16. #176
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    Affliction does really good in mythic 7+ due to sow the seeds talent and with mobs having toons of hp at the mythic 10 your dots have time to do their full dmg.
    If your plan is pvp and mythic 10+ dungeons then go affliction.
    For mythic raiding destro is better.
    Soul Effigy = Prismatic Crystal, they removed a clunky spell from mages and gave it to warlocks, very good job from blizzard devs... You can find plenty of 'good' words from mages regarding this spell.
    Mythic raiding will always be my priority, hence why destruction will probably win out.
    I do everything though, and mythic+ looks relatively lucrative. I'm hoping the gap will be close enough that affliction is a minor loss in raids for large gains elsewhere, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    Affliction does really good in mythic 7+ due to sow the seeds talent and with mobs having toons of hp at the mythic 10 your dots have time to do their full dmg.
    If your plan is pvp and mythic 10+ dungeons then go affliction.
    For mythic raiding destro is better.
    Soul Effigy = Prismatic Crystal, they removed a clunky spell from mages and gave it to warlocks, very good job from blizzard devs... You can find plenty of 'good' words from mages regarding this spell.
    Soul Effigy is far better than Prismatic Crystal in nearly every way. I think I'm gonna roll the dice and go with Affliction at launch. I'm an officer in a fairly high ranked mythic raiding guild, so I hope it's not a decision I utterly regret in 2 months. There are zero patchwerk fights in EN, so hopefully Affliction will remain competitive with Destro, and if not, secondary gearing for Demo is nearly identical to Aff.
    Last edited by Mcbenchpress; 2016-08-23 at 04:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    If someone told me how to play I'd show them a simulation dps graph made out of dick pics.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •