If WoW released today for the first time in it's current state...

[Kokolums]

No. Its way too antisocial now. It should have good sales but people would play it for 2-3 months and then drop it.

[Vineri]

Success is all relative, I suppose. In it's current state, it would be popular at first, but only about as much as Warhammer Online, which also had / has a fanbase.

The current game is not designed to be an immersive competitive world, but rather a single player themepark with some multiplayer options. Endgame can essentially be accomplished without talking to a single person via LFR, which doesn't help to get anyone motivated to see what happens next - in a social MMO, that is. Actually the whole game is about as social as GW2, which is not saying much.

Older WoW versions kept players logging in every day. The world was fun, dangerous and immersive. Every player mattered, even if some more than others. Current WoW makes every player the hero, and while that may be a plus to some, that philosophy doesn't work for me, personally. I suppose it's the new generation where every kid who participates in an activity gets a trophy or medal, instead of only the best of the best being rewarded. Meh.

Someone argued that MMO's are declining. I agree. But they are stagnating only because many companies are looking for short term dollars, instead of long term, making forgettable games. WoW 2004-2010 eyed longterm growth with a passion. Then came LFD, then came the cashop, then came casuals becoming powerful without effort, then LFR, then CRZ, more simplifications, etc. The passion for quality was lost. The passion for more revenue increased. It shows. The merge with Activision likely did not help either.

So, no. I don't feel WoW would be very popular if released in it's current state, today. It's not anything special, and frankly other MMO's do it better. The ones that still carry the RPG portion of the genre.

[Orby]

To ask that question I would like to know the state of MMO's if WoW hadn't been a thing for the last 11 years? :P

Would they have been a thing? I know MMO's have always been around long before WoW but WoW really brought it to the forefront and made it popular. What other MMo's were around at the time? Everquest and City of Heroes? Could they have done what WoW did? :P

[Vineri]

To ask that question I would like to know the state of MMO's if WoW hadn't been a thing for the last 11 years? :P

Would they have been a thing? I know MMO's have always been around long before WoW but WoW really brought it to the forefront and made it popular. What other MMo's were around at the time? Everquest and City of Heroes? Could they have done what WoW did? :P

Hard to say. It is a topic worthy of this thread though.

EverQuest seemed to be growing at the time. A couple of hundred thousand subs at it's peak might not seem like much , but it was growing. It had multiple expansion packs out prior to WoW's debut. Internet was not common though, and dialup was more common than actual dedicated lines.

Mid 2000's saw a huge rise with high speed internet. People no longer needed to hog their families phone line to play their online game.

In 2004-2005 EverQuest changed though, to mimic early WoW's social RPG experience. Penalty elements (such as regen) got nerfed, XP was massively boosted, and teleports everywhere became common, to name some changes. The outcome was that EverQuest was ruined. Early WoW was really fun though, devs modeled the original game after EQ, after all. (and it was seemless <-- big selling point)

Without WoW, it's hard to say, overall. High speed internet was becoming more of a norm, and it could very well be that difficult MMORPG's still would dominate the market, without WoW. Keep in mind also, that post 2010 WoW also spawned a huge number of dumbed down MMO's masquerading as RPG's, as money grabs. All of which thinned peoples interest.

WoW could have done more harm than good, by rapidly killing the genre, instead of letting it slowly mature.

I suppose every "system" experiences this. For instance, every video game system has a large portion of shovelware, mostly introduced once shady devs / investors see the system's success. Garbage gets poured into the markets. The overall effect usually degrades the whole experience.

[dusselldorf]

Probably not. If wow had not been released before now, another mmo would have been on top all of these years. The market created wow as much as blizzard did. Had blizzard not taken advantage of it, someone else would have. If that were the case, wow would have to compete against a seasoned market that already has a king. As such, in it's original release state it would not grow and compete as well in 2016 as it did in 2005. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

[Doomislav]

The market for mmo gaming is a lot different now than it was in 2004. Around that time we are seeing is big switch from dialup to broadband and the Internet as a market is having a big growth spurt. MUDs, Everquest, and ultima online have already established a small but very dedicated niche market in mmo gaming.

Now Comes wow, a game which plays like a very accessable and fluid version of Everquest, guild wars, and asherons call. The rest is history.

Btw those that are complaining that wow is a watered version of its past self are right, but the way gamers have changed over the years, e developers have had to adjust their product for it to remain relevant. The fact that wow is still a popular product with subs in the millions is unprecedented in the history of gaming. I don't think we will ever see something like it again.

[Caerule]

Of course WoW would be incredibly popular if it came out right now.

Suddenly the world would get a game that's got 11 years worth of content. More than players could ever explore.
An MMO with 7 continents to explore.

[Tziva]

It would be popular, but no where near how it was at its peak. That isn't because of the state of the game though; that's just because I think original WoW's success had a lot to do with time it was released. I don't think those circumstances can be replicated, by WoW or any other game.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

It would probably be a hundred times more popular.

It's the only high depth actual gaming focused franchise around with non-human playable characters. It still is. Like the last thing they added to FF14 was human women with lizard tails, who are therefore still human.

The only reason it's garbage now is because it became so popular that the type of people who'd rather run around as Garen and potshot opponents while harassing them all day long have inundated the ranks and are a shit stain that can never be chased out, save for the possibility of destroying their UI like Legion is trying to do.

EDIT: While I forgot about Bethesda, they didn't do too well on Multiplayer set ups, and I've heard lots of rumors that Zenimax Studios didn't support the release of their actual mmo very well.

I think the other games would have evolved and been popular enough to the point where it would be a tricky call. Since all the other MMOs would have had much greater success I'd imagine with WoW not being in the equation.

yah but name one where you can be more than a modified human, that isn't ESO.

The closest call is Wildstar, and they only feature one non-human race.

[Biggles Worth]

would it have still become so popular?

I think the other games would have evolved and been popular enough to the point where it would be a tricky call. Since all the other MMOs would have had much greater success I'd imagine with WoW not being in the equation.

[Vutar]

No. Its way too antisocial now. It should have good sales but people would play it for 2-3 months and then drop it.

This is my guess too. It's the same problem that every mmorpg that comes out these days has. Developers keep making mmorpgs with single player focus that only hold people's attention for a few months. When I look at WoW today it is the same thing. Every time I come back to the game it's in hope of experiencing the social aspect that existed up until the end of Wrath. Every time I am disappointed and quit again after a couple months.


The games that are considered iconic in the MMORPG genre are the games that had great and lasting social interaction sometime in their games history. Ultima Online, EQ1, AC1, AO, DAOC, WoW, etc.

[Hotmail]

would it have still become so popular?

If Blizzard hadn't released WoW back in 2005 then they would've had to work on different games to stay afloat. Starcraft 2 would have been out sooner (with a story that made sense), Warcraft 4 might have been a thing and Diablo 3 might have been much closer to Blizzard North's original version (which means it would have been a superior game). Matt Uelmen might still be composing for Blizzard.

With all that additional development experience/talent under their belt, they would definitely have made the kind of game that could dethrone CoD. And since everyone knows that gamers always flock to the better games, I say yes.

[Spiral Mage]

For all their glaring mistakes, and the understandably angry community. It would still be considered an extremely good MMO due to it's combination of action and RPG elements which is still unique unto WoW. There's nothing quite like combat in WoW, today. That's why I disagree so heavily with how trivial they've made alot of combat, both in mechanics and stats, but it's still a solid game comparatively speaking.

For all the amazing content that Final Fantasy 14 has to offer, I still find myself enjoying WoW more in spite of how sorry it is in it's current state, compared to the last two expacs. And barely playing FF14. So to me, that's big a difference the gameplay makes, right there. If the gameplay were the same, I'd be playing FF14 alot more.

MMOs are still very solid in today's market to spite a comment or two to the contrary, that is clearly NOT true with how much success FF14 is seeing and there are still alot of players on F2P ones, as well, and WoW while badly wounded, is still alive.

The main deciding factor would be reviews and marketing since if it were a new game, it'd have to break into the market, which is the impossible to predict element. It would either take off, or fall flat. But FF14 has proven, a solid MMO can still capture a huge audience. So it'd just come down to presentation and BLIZ has always been good at that.

[Vynestra]

Probably not but that's the last thing you'll like about my answer. Sicari is correct, too many variables not least of which is I challenge you to imagine the history of the of the genre without it? Nonetheless, it's pretty clear by now that World of Warcraft was the right game in the right place at the right time. The state of the game--whatever that actually means--has less to do with it than you imagine.

Pretty much this, it was a perfect storm, and fortunately for blizz it has been riding that wave for a long time and will continue to do so for a long time.

Who knows if we would had warcraft 4 5 and 6 by now if no mmo?

Too many variables indeed.

But what happened, happened, and it is what it is now.

[randomnamegenerator16]

Seeing how MMOs fare, especially ones with subscription: nope.

[Bethrezen]

No. It would die like any other MMO & Final Fantasy would be the King of MMO.

ROFL. Right.

[Nynax]

For all their glaring mistakes, and the understandably angry community. It would still be considered an extremely good MMO due to it's combination of action and RPG elements which is still unique unto WoW. There's nothing quite like combat in WoW, today. That's why I disagree so heavily with how trivial they've made alot of combat, both in mechanics and stats, but it's still a solid game comparatively speaking.

For all the amazing content that Final Fantasy 14 has to offer, I still find myself enjoying WoW more in spite of how sorry it is in it's current state, compared to the last two expacs. And barely playing FF14. So to me, that's big a difference the gameplay makes, right there. If the gameplay were the same, I'd be playing FF14 alot more.

MMOs are still very solid in today's market to spite a comment or two to the contrary, that is clearly NOT true with how much success FF14 is seeing and there are still alot of players on F2P ones, as well, and WoW while badly wounded, is still alive.

The main deciding factor would be reviews and marketing since if it were a new game, it'd have to break into the market, which is the impossible to predict element. It would either take off, or fall flat. But FF14 has proven, a solid MMO can still capture a huge audience. So it'd just come down to presentation and BLIZ has always been good at that.

not to mention, it's still a Blizzard IP. Which would still mean a fuck ton because if it came out today it would be following the heels of the success of Overwatch, Hearthstone, HotS, and Diablo for the non-warcraft nostalgia fans. Then all the Warcraft 1-3 fans would still be there just to dive 3d into a world they loved.

[Bethrezen]

Idiotic response. ROFL. you do realize this is speculations & I was refering to FFXI not the new one?

ROFL ROFL.

Yeah, no. ROFL. Your bias does not mean statistically that it'll be true. With or without WoW ever happening. And it doesn't matter which FF you're talking about. Also, you can't 'refer' if you just stated it generically. Wtf are you 'referring' about?ROFL.

Sorry you had to be so triggered. But w/o WoW ever coming to being, every other MMO would come out completely different mechanics, engine wise, for better or for worse, w/o WoW being there to model/mimic it's success/design in some aspect to their game. Like someone else mentioned in the thread earlier (if you actually read), too many variables to consider. With that in mind, and given FF's content/popularity as they are now, it'd still be a flat obvious "No." to consider it then.

The top would've remained Everquest/Ultima Online.

[Bonaduce]

I don't think the wow "in its current state" would be the same wow if released this year instead. It's been able to reinvent itself with expansions but as a new release I believe the game today would be a bit different.

[Jewsco]

No. It would die like any other MMO & Final Fantasy would be the King of MMO.

Without wow's succes would they have even of made final fantasy in a mmo? Would MMO's even have taken off? Because no other ones did even half of what wow did. The mmo genre probably would have died off years ago without wow.