Does exclusivity make a better game? Gating content

[Anatos]

Exclusivity works for me as a motivator. It made me get off my tail in Vanilla and build a raiding guild to see all the content I was missing.

That experience also taught me one other important lesson: what motivates one person is not necessarily what motivates someone else. So yeah, it makes a better game FOR ME ... but for anyone else or in general? No idea.

[Wildmoon]

It's about the right balance no two extreme.

[purebalance]

Special Snowflake is a term used by people who obviously care so much that they've decided to act like they don't yet still comment. If you really didn't care you wouldn't be here.

I'm assuming the you isn't referring to me and yet the post sounds a little too much like it is. Perhaps you should say "they"

[Perkunas]

I'm assuming the you isn't referring to me and yet the post sounds a little too much like it is. Perhaps you should say "they"

Yeah, it's a general use. It makes sense in the tone I use but you know English....

[Krille]

OP, it's self explanatory, but not in this age of insta reward, but we know the kids don't know their own good. they love special snowflakes and they love the chance to be one themselves, even if they never manage it. it would never happen in current state of game. that being said, training ground is the worst content added to wow after arena. now were getting noobifacts which effectively will work as a gate i suppose, we've seen many of these softcore gates past years, like having to grind up flying by doing trivial content.

TBC gates were far from effective. Was always circumvented, it was never a problem for new players. You did not need kara key, you did not need tk key, you did not need BK attunement, it was all removed shortly after release or highly optional. The faceroll had begun, we washed the floor with illidans minions, MH was no different.

And to this day you find people who regret not doing the optional stuff, after its been removed. for simple reasons like a title, but hey i cant help none care to play the game and only want higher e-peen.

Wanting titles/achievements is "not playing the game"? Oh ok. Strange view of what playing is meant to be, whatever floats your boat.

[Deleted]

The thing that annoys me about the people that complain about them never being able to do Karazhan is that you can easily make your own super casual group that's made for fun and not progress. Raids and dungeons like Karazhan were not made for everyone to just "see". When i was a noob i used to watch youtube videos of mythic guilds kill bosses, it gave me something to strive for instead of just strolling in on LFR and removing the entire reason you wanted to go there in the first place! Besides, what the hell else are they going to do? Spam HC dungeons thousands of times? Level professions? Making a piece of content that's hard, but not the hardest gives EVERYONE something to strive for.

[Kreeshak]

You could easily have me play a PVP game with a ladder, which result was determined by a black box. I could grind the ladder for days and months.

Even if the black box, was AS simple as a random number generator.

You can be competitive at your own range in the ladder.

[Jtbrig7390]

I have no data but everyone and their mothers have seen Karazhan.

See this is where your argument ends because you can't back up your statements.

This came from blizzard...

LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.

Now he could mean Wrath Naxx or Classic Naxx. Ether way this statement from blizzard holds true even if you don't like it.

- - - Updated - - -

if the content lives off from challenging the players, this doesnt simply work. If you make a easy mode in Dark souls it would dimish the sales and the enjoyment

No it wouldn't because the original challenge would still be there and more would get to try it because of "Easy Mode".

- - - Updated - - -

But people who only want to admire the view will only do it once and go back to something else, assuming they don't leave.
The only ones who stay are the ones who want to farm epics or tier in LFR.

And then there are the one who truly enjoy LFR. God, how could someone enjoy spaming LFR for no reason. I have no idea xD

Its almost like people like different things then you. If Endgame and story ends in raiding for me there must be a queable raid mode. If there isn't I stop playing WoW, I am sure there is others who feel the same way.

[Sliske]

Exclusivity and gating content I'd wager are different things. So on the topic of gating content, consider the following:

A boss that is unkillable, it literally has a debuff on it that says "Cannot be damaged unless the entire raid has exactly 732 equipped ilvl". It has 1 health point. It takes months for your raid to gear to the point of having exactly 732 ilvl across the board. You then 1 hit the boss. Some people believe time taken for a boss to be killed makes the boss hard. That boss I just described above would easily take months. Is it now one of the most difficult bosses ever? Is the game better for having that content, or significantly worse? I think you know my opinion.

If you mean exclusivity by removing the ability to get stuff (CM gear) then thats a different issue entirely. You could argue that it isn't prestigious at all, seeing as you can 2 man it and sell to 3 people.

[Wildmoon]

See this is where your argument ends because you can't back up your statements.

This came from blizzard...


Now he could mean Wrath Naxx or Classic Naxx. Ether way this statement from blizzard holds true even if you don't like it.

- - - Updated - - -



No it wouldn't because the original challenge would still be there and more would get to try it because of "Easy Mode".

- - - Updated - - -



Its almost like people like different things then you. If Endgame and story ends in raiding for me there must be a queable raid mode. If there isn't I stop playing WoW, I am sure there is others who feel the same way.

That statement referred to classic Naxx. WotLK's naxx was a joke. Most people saw it. It was similar difficulty to kara. maybe a bit easier.

[Crazykeven]

People who claim there shouldn't be exclusive content to those who have more time than them sound like this:

You're playing Wither 3 right? YOu just finished a very long and busy day at work. You come home wanting to continue to play the game but find yourself frustrated that you haven't finished the game yet because it is too long and you don't have the TIME to finish it NOW.

Now, that doesn't seem that likely does it? Would something more along the lines of this seems right?:

You come home from a long day at work, you are excited to continue playing the Witcher 3, because its the journey that matters too. The game is engaging, you want to know how the story progresses etc.

Yes my examples aren't 100% accurate because you can't 100% compare a single player RPG to an MMO RPG but one fundamental similarity that seems to be forgotten and over looked especially by Blizzard, is that WOW is an RPG. The Journey is MEANT to matter.

So is the fact people aren't interested in working towards something that takes a while to get the fault of the player's patience level? or is it Blizzard's fault for making a game that the journey isn't anywhere near as rewarding as the finish line? Or is it a bit of both?

[Deleted]

See this is where your argument ends because you can't back up your statements.

This came from blizzard...

LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.

Ugh, i didn't want to put the effort to search for my old posts to find the info.
A long time ago i remember seeing high participation in karazhan. I will try to find it.

But thats what i said. The problem is that they don't get to see the last boss of the game. Content locked behind skill.
The question is if it's bad or good for the game.

You can still be full epic doing Karazhan and have specific sets of epic armor. You are only incapable of killing the last boss of the game.
Lich King had the perfect skill check in my eyes. I am a mediocre player and i was able to kill Arthas. I don't even know how...oh right, the major nerfs on the end of the expansion

Making LFR just for the sake of sight seeing is a ridiculous concept. "I want to see". Godamit Billy go see it in a video on youtube or something.

[Deleted]

It does. But the current gates are hidden from the casual eye

[Demithio]

It's about the right balance no two extreme.

This pretty much sums it up. Something that Blizzard fails miserably at, balance. They went from one extreme to another, but found a (almost) happy medium with Wotlk, then of course they went and screwed it up from there.

[Krimzin]

This pretty much sums it up. Something that Blizzard fails miserably at, balance. They went from one extreme to another, but found a (almost) happy medium with Wotlk, then of course they went and screwed it up from there.

Its so easy to blame Blizzard, saying it is their fault things aren't balanced. Try balancing things for 5 million people or more.. It has to be a nightmare. As the old saying goes, you cant please everyone, so why the fuck even try... Yet they do. I think they do a good job of balancing. Are things perfect, hell no and they never will be. Is there any other game that does balancing any better, not that Ive seen/played.

[Perkunas]

Its so easy to blame Blizzard, saying it is their fault things aren't balanced. Try balancing things for 5 million people or more.. It has to be a nightmare. As the old saying goes, you cant please everyone, so why the fuck even try... Yet they do. I think they do a good job of balancing. Are things perfect, hell no and they never will be. Is there any other game that does balancing any better, not that Ive seen/played.

I think most folks are pissed because they had a much better attempt at it during Wrath. They tend to over correct to the max.

[Demithio]

Its so easy to blame Blizzard, saying it is their fault things aren't balanced. Try balancing things for 5 million people or more.. It has to be a nightmare. As the old saying goes, you cant please everyone, so why the fuck even try... Yet they do. I think they do a good job of balancing. Are things perfect, hell no and they never will be. Is there any other game that does balancing any better, not that Ive seen/played.

The fact is, they had a good formula in wotlk, by no means perfect but good. I went from TBC to wrath and watched the more casual types that had trouble doing TBC raid content do fairly well in wrath, but still remained challenging and rewarding. Raids still meant something AND were available to the more casual, but they wernt complete face roll gimmies like now. People still had to work, but were doable for casuals who put in at least some effort, so there was a greater sense of accomplishment in actually getting to see a particular raid. On top of that, the more hardcore types like myself still felt like wrath content was challenging enough to be entertaining. The trouble is now, they've almost completely catered to super casuals (save from the upper level difficulty raids). They went from white knuckle grind teeth type content ala TBC to feeble face roll mind numbing ease with the current game (this applies to just about all aspects of the game). What balance?

[Deleted]

@Jtbrig7390

This is all i have from TBC
A survey of 2 million players (81 000 guilds). 99.45% of those guilds cleared Karazhan.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles...-than-it-helps

I don't have the information about the other 6 million players. But the statistics are not looking bad for people who "entered karazhan" and raided.
Rest of the article:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles...-it-helps-pg-2
http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles...-it-helps-pg-3

[Zoreyai]

I hate gating. All it does is let them be lazy with content as it takes longer to complete it. I'd love to spend the weekend after Legion comes out in my man cave literally doing nothing, but playing this game till my arms give up. But alas I can't really.

[Jtbrig7390]

Making LFR just for the sake of sight seeing is a ridiculous concept. "I want to see". Godamit Billy go see it in a video on youtube or something.

It wasn't made for the sake of sight seeing. It was made to justify the budget that go's into raiding. Once again read the whole quote and its not the only quote of them saying LFR justify's raiding for hardcores and casuals alike.

This is a fact that people like you keep trying to be blind to.