Fury Legion Discussion

[volgon]

Didnt test it in beta but in pre-patch i barely every got chance to use execute, as enrage uptime is more immportant so i use rampage for rage. Now the thing is in this thread many people suggest going Juggernaut as second instead of Rage of the Valarjar in artifact traits. Why is that so ? With even lower crit chance in start of Legion our uptime on enrage will be terrible so you would have to execute outside of enrage to keep the 6sec buff for Juggernaut which will only futher decrease enrage uptime. I dont get this logic, anyone can explain ?

Massacre will be the raiding talent of choice in T75, so you spam Execute whether you have Enrage up or not since a crit procs a free Rampage.

[CSINada]

That would make sense but i never seen someone suggesting masscre as default talent to go into raids, mostly carrnage. I guess i might missread something, thanks!

[Warriorsarri]

Carnage has been the better one now in the pre-patch. Come Legion Massacre will be the default choice for almost all raid content.

[Archimtiros]

Carnage has been the better one now in the pre-patch. Come Legion Massacre will be the default choice for almost all raid content.

Even that's not really true. Carnage is still weaker than Massacre even for short fights. Unless you're in a guild which sees sub 1m kill times (which the vast majority of people on this forum are not), and even for those players on the "harder" fights such as M Archimonde, Massacre is still very much competitive if not outright better.

[TylerWildstar]

What is the artifact path to take for fury leveling?

[Jngizu]

Even that's not really true. Carnage is still weaker than Massacre even for short fights. Unless you're in a guild which sees sub 1m kill times (which the vast majority of people on this forum are not), and even for those players on the "harder" fights such as M Archimonde, Massacre is still very much competitive if not outright better.

Wait, I thought it was the opposite? That's what the Icy-Veins guide claims and most warriors from top guilds run Carnage too to my knowledge. I can see Massacre being better for EN, but as of right now, Carnage clearly seems the better choice to me.

[Archimtiros]

Wait, I thought it was the opposite? That's what the Icy-Veins guide claims and most warriors from top guilds run Carnage too to my knowledge. I can see Massacre being better for EN, but as of right now, Carnage clearly seems the better choice to me.

No, it's not what it says. What is says is "Massacre is the best choice in encounters that have extended periods of Execute use, but is weaker on shorter ones.".

While that is fairly ambiguous (which is how IV writes, as their guides are more designed to be starting points for players unfamiliar with the content, rather than min/max guides), it's also exactly what I said. Keep in mind that weaker =! weakest.

As for the rest, reread what you quoted:

Unless you're in a guild which sees sub 1m kill times (which the vast majority of people on this forum are not), and even for those players on the "harder" fights such as M Archimonde, Massacre is still very much competitive if not outright better.

Consider that those "top players" are by and large in guilds which are stacking DPS and nuking fights in 30s; it's not due to min/maxing, and neither skill nor talent choice make a difference, put even the worst Warrior in a group with 12 Mages and they're gonna end up with a top 10 rank.

So once again, I'll repeat myself; Massacre is better for all but the shortest of fights, or the few fights which see a high amount of sustained cleave, assuming those extra targets don't die immediately (eg: it might have been good for Iskar/Xhul progression).

[Jngizu]

Do you have sims to back this up or is it your personal experience? Because unless you're still progressing on Mythic HFC, bosses should die really quickly. I can see maybe Archimonde (Manno as well I guess) having a long enough exec phase but aside from that, everything dies extremely fast on live if your group has 740+ ilvl.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some proofs behind your claims, instead of believing you blindly.

[Warriorsarri]

He's the main theorycrafter for Fury, and the main Sim-C guy for Fury. He know's his shit around Fury.

[Jngizu]

He's the main theorycrafter for Fury, and the main Sim-C guy for Fury. He know's his shit around Fury.

Yeah, but at the same time, he only killed Archimonde 5 times. Not to say he's not a great player. I just don't like to believe people blindly, unless they can prove their claims, which I think is what everyone should do.

[Deleted]

Do you have sims to back this up or is it your personal experience? Because unless you're still progressing on Mythic HFC, bosses should die really quickly. I can see maybe Archimonde (Manno as well I guess) having a long enough exec phase but aside from that, everything dies extremely fast on live if your group has 740+ ilvl.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some proofs behind your claims, instead of believing you blindly.

Well he is THE fury theorycrafter, the guide you've read on IcyVeins is his, so he has proven since I know him (start of WoD) that he knows his shit...BUT atm on live I wouldn't play massacre simply because in every normal casual raiding guild like mine bosses like reaver where you would think are worth being played with massacre die too fast that you see a difference in play.
I think you could even run just a random talent setup and end up with a top 100 rank on any boss with the right composition around you.
Anyways lv100 content is over in a week, so get used to massacre at least for non-heavy cleave combat. (I think carnage is superior on cleave)

Edit: Didn't see Sarri's quick answer mb. And one more thing: there is a difference between not blindly following stuff and accepting facts.

[Jngizu]

That's exactly my point though. Stating things like that can never be accepted as fact, unless there are proofs to back those claims. Which to my knowledge, he hasn't provided. Anyone can make mistakes and be wrong, which is why I'm asking the maths behind it or if it's what he believes.

[Ianus]

That's exactly my point though. Stating things like that can never be accepted as fact, unless there are proofs to back those claims. Which to my knowledge, he hasn't provided. Anyone can make mistakes and be wrong, which is why I'm asking the maths behind it or if it's what he believes.

to me you are anonymous pleb and your opinion is irrelevant..sorry but archimtiros knows his shit

[Archimtiros]

Do you have sims to back this up or is it your personal experience? Because unless you're still progressing on Mythic HFC, bosses should die really quickly. I can see maybe Archimonde (Manno as well I guess) having a long enough exec phase but aside from that, everything dies extremely fast on live if your group has 740+ ilvl.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some proofs behind your claims, instead of believing you blindly.

To address this and all your other posts:

• First, I know what I'm talking about, as has been pointed out, I've done all of the work on this subject to date. If that's not enough in the way of credentials for you, I'm not sure anything else said would matter.
• Second, I do have the sims to back it up, and you would too if you put in a modicum of effort to prove others wrong, instead of demanding others prove themselves right.
• Third, amount of kills doesn't really mean much when they were all before the pre-patch, and before what we are talking about was relevant.

Lastly, as I stated before, if you're in one of those guilds that is speed killing bosses, Carnage might come out on top. I believe I said that three times so far, so I'm not sure why you're still harping on it. Regardless, I believe you are vastly overestimating the impact of this talent choice. If you're killing the boss that quickly, the difference between Carnage and Massacre isn't going to make a lick of difference. As stated, any idiot in a group that kills the boss in 30s is going to get a top 10 rank, it's not a matter of skill or talent choice, but a simple measurement of burst damage divided by time. Also remember that the vast majority of players that frequent these forums aren't in guilds like that, therefore it's more apt to give them advice tailored to their needs, ie: treat as if they're still struggling on the boss, because if they're not, it really doesn't matter.

As an addendum, I like how you're sitting here demanding "proof", after making a claim that's based on your own supposition. If you want proof, go download the latest version of SimC, run it with both talents, and you can have your answer within about 5 minutes. At the risk of sounding haughty, I'm not going to stop and show my work to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that poses a question; they come around so often that I'd never get anything else done.

[Flytanx]

As one of the idiots who is killing bosses in 30 seconds, it really doesn't matter

[lilaum]

Guys, I am thinking about playing as warrior (fury) on Legion. I've been reading some comments (not so good) about the class, fury included. Would you guys advice me playing as fury warrior anyway or what? I do PVE and PVP.

Regards.

[Knifttar]

To address this and all your other posts:

• First, I know what I'm talking about, as has been pointed out, I've done all of the work on this subject to date. If that's not enough in the way of credentials for you, I'm not sure anything else said would matter.
• Second, I do have the sims to back it up, and you would too if you put in a modicum of effort to prove others wrong, instead of demanding others prove themselves right.
• Third, amount of kills doesn't really mean much when they were all before the pre-patch, and before what we are talking about was relevant.

Lastly, as I stated before, if you're in one of those guilds that is speed killing bosses, Carnage might come out on top. I believe I said that three times so far, so I'm not sure why you're still harping on it. Regardless, I believe you are vastly overestimating the impact of this talent choice. If you're killing the boss that quickly, the difference between Carnage and Massacre isn't going to make a lick of difference. As stated, any idiot in a group that kills the boss in 30s is going to get a top 10 rank, it's not a matter of skill or talent choice, but a simple measurement of burst damage divided by time. Also remember that the vast majority of players that frequent these forums aren't in guilds like that, therefore it's more apt to give them advice tailored to their needs, ie: treat as if they're still struggling on the boss, because if they're not, it really doesn't matter.

As an addendum, I like how you're sitting here demanding "proof", after making a claim that's based on your own supposition. If you want proof, go download the latest version of SimC, run it with both talents, and you can have your answer within about 5 minutes. At the risk of sounding haughty, I'm not going to stop and show my work to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that poses a question; they come around so often that I'd never get anything else done.

I'm also not sure why we are making such a big deal about anything regarding live content at this point.

For arch, in your opinion, is Fury still seeming to be clearly above Arms for pve content (ie mythic dungeons) or is the difference pretty small as of today?

[Archimtiros]

I'm also not sure why we are making such a big deal about anything regarding live content at this point.

For arch, in your opinion, is Fury still seeming to be clearly above Arms for pve content (ie mythic dungeons) or is the difference pretty small as of today?

I think Fury is better for Mythic+ dungeons in general, even with Arms higher ST potential. Like in CM's before them, on demand AoE matters a great deal in Mythic+, and Fury deals with variable targets much better than Arms in general, and especially its FR build.

[Hoodzilla]

Question about legendaries and artifact weapon, is it feasible that down the line frothing berserker could surpass carnage or massacre?

[Archimtiros]

Question about legendaries and artifact weapon, is it feasible that down the line frothing berserker could surpass carnage or massacre?

If it isn't right now (and it isn't), it's unlikely.