The wealthy have nearly healed from recession. The poor haven't even started.

[Hooked]

People need to start somewhere, I would first advise cleaning up the litter in the poor inner city neighborhoods and reducing violent crime. Without the heavy violent criminal activity in poor areas many, many, more kids would be able to succeed in life. The mindless off the scale crime in inner city neighborhoods is the real oppression of poor people.

[Deleted]

It's the new standard tbh. The times that you could get away with being a no/medium skilled worker and get paid a decent wage are behind us.

I wouldnt expect things out there to change. If people want more, they will have to become more.

[Hooked]

It's the new standard tbh. The times that you could get away with being a no/medium skilled worker and get paid a decent wage are behind us.

I wouldnt expect things out there to change. If people want more, they will have to become more.

No its impossible, with machines replacing low paid jobs and mass immigration from the 3rd world, there is no way we can recover. They are just planting the seeds for western destruction.

[PC2]

No its impossible, with machines replacing low paid jobs and mass immigration from the 3rd world, there is no way we can recover. They are just planting the seeds for western destruction.

More advanced machines is proving his point that people have to apply themselves to be competitive. Higher skills expectations and mass migration being bad can both be true at the same time.

[Hooked]

More advanced machines is proving his point that people have to apply themselves to be competitive. Higher skills expectations and mass migration being bad can both be true at the same time.

Another issue is young poor inner city males, without factory jobs to tire them out. They have a lot of spare time and a lot of excess energy to commit crimes and ruin it for everyone. We need the crappy jobs if not just for crime control.

[kamuimac]

No its impossible, with machines replacing low paid jobs and mass immigration from the 3rd world, there is no way we can recover. They are just planting the seeds for western destruction.

machines still need people to operate them and more important service them - workers just need to be more educated then 20-30 years ago - and if you cba to learn well you lost before you even started.

the age of simple handicraft work is slowly ending - educate yourself of die in poverty that will be the main theme of wok in 21st century if i have to guess.

- - - Updated - - -

Another issue is young poor inner city males, without factory jobs to tire them out. They have a lot of spare time and a lot of excess energy to commit crimes and ruin it for everyone. We need the crappy jobs if not just for crime control.

we dont though - its the society as whole job to find them something to spare this strenght at - maybe its time to reintroduce public works for unemployed - like if you want to keep your social security you have to clearn river banks, parks etc etc - other idea would be opening free to public gyms with very basic equipement but where its the state that sponsors memebrship fees

[rogueMatthias]

I wouldnt expect things out there to change. If people want more, they will have to become more.

And how do you suppose they do that?

The problem is, this whole modern dream that "Anyone can make it if they work hard enough" is just a myth, to pass the blame for poor people onto the poor. It's an excuse for rich people to abscond themselves of any responsibility. A man can work for you until he's 80, and then you can leave him broke because "if he'd worked harder he would have been rich too".

Even college/uni diplomas aren't worth the paper that they're printed on anymore (let alone the debt acquired to get them).

[kamuimac]

Even college/uni diplomas aren't worth the paper that they're printed on anymore (let alone the debt acquired to get them).

thats because they never were - what has value is the knowledge you gain during those classes - a lot of young people are lazy . during university dont learn and barely pass on weak marks but then after obtaining the diploma they expect emplyers to kiss they ass just because they have piece of paper which is idiotic

learn learn learn all your life only this way you can get somewhere in life if you dont have rich parents - when you come from work dont waste time watching mindlesly tv only spend 1 hour a day learning something whether its new language or new skills - take afternoon courses in post-highschools schools / weekend courses on nerby univeristy - but majority is to lazy to do it nly prefer to complain how crappy their life is yet they do nothin to change it.

few months ago i had a discussion with the girl that cleans my office - she was complaining how much she hates this job , the way people n office treat her etc etc and i asked her what do you do to change it ? do you look for some evening courses to teach you new skills which would allow you to change your job ? and she was like "no i dont " i aske her why ? she " i dunno" - how a person with such mentality can achieve anything in her life ? there are so many oportunities to learn nowadays yet people refuse to do so. why should we feel sorry for them its their own choice

[Hooked]

And how do you suppose they do that?

The problem is, this whole modern dream that "Anyone can make it if they work hard enough" is just a myth, to pass the blame for poor people onto the poor. It's an excuse for rich people to abscond themselves of any responsibility. A man can work for you until he's 80, and then you can leave him broke because "if he'd worked harder he would have been rich too".

Even college/uni diplomas aren't worth the paper that they're printed on anymore (let alone the debt acquired to get them).

The urban poor dont help their cause with rioting and calling for a race war. Its up to them to make a change, because they can starve to death as far as im concerned.

[Dundebuns]

thats because they never were - what has value is the knowledge you gain during those classes - a lot of young people are lazy . during university dont learn and barely pass on weak marks but then after obtaining the diploma they expect emplyers to kiss they ass just because they have piece of paper which is idiotic

learn learn learn all your life only this way you can get somewhere in life if you dont have rich parents - when you come from work dont waste time watching mindlesly tv only spend 1 hour a day learning something whether its new language or new skills - take afternoon courses in post-highschools schools / weekend courses on nerby univeristy - but majority is to lazy to do it nly prefer to complain how crappy their life is yet they do nothin to change it.

few months ago i had a discussion with the girl that cleans my office - she was complaining how much she hates this job , the way people n office treat her etc etc and i asked her what do you do to change it ? do you look for some evening courses to teach you new skills which would allow you to change your job ? and she was like "no i dont " i aske her why ? she " i dunno" - how a person with such mentality can achieve anything in her life ? there are so many oportunities to learn nowadays yet people refuse to do so. why should we feel sorry for them its their own choice

So much of this is true. I went to Uni to learn Physics. It became apparent to me that the prestige of earning a degree was going to drop over the upcoming years because so many more people were being funneled into University. Incorrectly so as well. Kids would do better learning vocational skills, as Uni is pretty much the theory of a subject, and depending on the course doesn't tend to have a lot of transferable skills. So I did physics for 10 years and earned a PhD, then jumped ship to another industry (IT) where I applied myself to learning a lot of new stuff. Still doing so today as well, as I recently created my first JavaScript page just from looking at an example and StackOverflow.

It does scare me how many people just aren't bothered about self improvements. You don't even need to go to night classes to learn skills these days. Google has links to loads of free content and courses. Want to be a 3D modeler or animator? Download Blender and hit up some of the awesome tutorials on YouTube etc.

[Deleted]

Lots of people here think of "the wealthy" as millionaires living in mansions, while they count themselves as "the poor" when all they can afford is an apartment and going out only once a week and maybe the occasional travel holiday

I'll put this here for context, it's a map of energy consumption from a few years ago, still holds:



See all those light coloured bits?

That's the poor people - the people who consume 1/6th the electricity, oil, heat, food, etc of the average "Westerner"

They don't need $20 minimum wages, or cushy retirement packages, or better work/family balance etc - they just want the basics, and are willing to work very hard indeed

We live in a global world, where most of the manufacturing is done very cheaply in places where workers are paid very poorly and have barely any rights

We allow this because there is no other way we in the west - and that includes the people who think of themselves as "the poor" - can afford their apartments, and their cellphones, and their heavily subsidised food, etc

There is a global context to inequality that we often miss when thinking in the narrow confines of our own countries

What I'm saying is that if we were to tax and consume and equalise on a global level - then almost everyone in this forum would be worse off than they are currently, with less income and more taxes than they have currently

[Ghostmcghosty]

So much of this is true. I went to Uni to learn Physics. It became apparent to me that the prestige of earning a degree was going to drop over the upcoming years because so many more people were being funneled into University. Incorrectly so as well. Kids would do better learning vocational skills, as Uni is pretty much the theory of a subject, and depending on the course doesn't tend to have a lot of transferable skills. So I did physics for 10 years and earned a PhD, then jumped ship to another industry (IT) where I applied myself to learning a lot of new stuff. Still doing so today as well, as I recently created my first JavaScript page just from looking at an example and StackOverflow.

It does scare me how many people just aren't bothered about self improvements. You don't even need to go to night classes to learn skills these days. Google has links to loads of free content and courses. Want to be a 3D modeler or animator? Download Blender and hit up some of the awesome tutorials on YouTube etc.

Adding to this, I had a recent awakening.

I have gotten lazy/comfortable at my work. I make enough to have like $500 spending cash a month, and I didn't really save. I work security, which is notorious for low pay and no upward mobility. Many people hate this industry.

Well, after shit hit the fan this month, i realized I am not fine. I realized I have gotten lazy as fuck, and I have not tried to improve myself in 6 years. So now I am struggling to right my ship, and actually have a fire under my ass and I am motivated to do better. At first I looked into a career swap, but after doing some research, I realize that I am the problem, not my shit job.

My friend makes Police money. He pulls in 70k a year. As a Security officer at a church I used to work at with him (he used to be my boss before I quit and came back). He had been telling me what to do to make money and I have been ignoring his advice. Now when I look into it, I look back and I can only kick myself in the ass.

I see a job right now for $15 an hour starting as an armed guard. All you do is work in an office of a govt building and escort employees to their car once in a while downtown. All they require is Level 3 certification, and 1 year supervisor experience.

- Level 3 Cert is 1 week and $150. And my friend knows the owner of the school so for me it's actually 2 days cause I skip the bullshit.
- I turned down a supervisor slot last year cause it paid me 50 cents less an hour.

Another job with that same company is looking for a security supervisor for a university staff. $18 an hour. They require a few more certifications, but i checked up on them and things like CPR training is a day course for $60. The more advanced stuff I see will run me $200 per test, but that allows me to apply for the next job...


I saw a job offered for (I forget the title) but the salary is $50k per year with benefits. Now, that isn't balling money, but that is hella good for someone with only a highschool diploma. And I am in my last year at Uni I am 100% sure I can leverage more and higher paying positions. And that is before I realized my license is mine and allows me to offer my services directly to anyone willing to hire me. I have been acting like a lazy "drone" when i should be acting like an independent contractor.

The fact that i make crap money now is 100% entirely my fault. And I am going for my level 3 in the 1'st and then my CPR cert as well as talking to my boss for a supervisor slot at a new site. And all this is only for the experience I need to start moving to those higher paying jobs.


Edit: Just for fun I calculated my expenses if I were able to get that second job I was looking at. Basically, If I had gotten on the ball 1 year ago.

With a 1,000 going towards a house and expenses per month (Calculated a home instead of rent), 380 for school loan payback, 400 per month for a car (Don't wanna get into that -_-), and all basically all my bills I forsee having (phone electricity etc) I would take home $1500 per month in disposable money. And yes, I accounted for $1,800 + 15% in taxes. I'm fucking stupid and lazy and I hate that.

[kamuimac]

Adding to this, I had a recent awakening.

I have gotten lazy/comfortable at my work. I make enough to have like $500 spending cash a month, and I didn't really save. I work security, which is notorious for low pay and no upward mobility. Many people hate this industry.

Well, after shit hit the fan this month, i realized I am not fine. I realized I have gotten lazy as fuck, and I have not tried to improve myself in 6 years. So now I am struggling to right my ship, and actually have a fire under my ass and I am motivated to do better. At first I looked into a career swap, but after doing some research, I realize that I am the problem, not my shit job.

My friend makes Police money. He pulls in 70k a year. As a Security officer at a church I used to work at with him (he used to be my boss before I quit and came back). He had been telling me what to do to make money and I have been ignoring his advice. Now when I look into it, I look back and I can only kick myself in the ass.

I see a job right now for $15 an hour starting as an armed guard. All you do is work in an office of a govt building and escort employees to their car once in a while downtown. All they require is Level 3 certification, and 1 year supervisor experience.

- Level 3 Cert is 1 week and $150. And my friend knows the owner of the school so for me it's actually 2 days cause I skip the bullshit.
- I turned down a supervisor slot last year cause it paid me 50 cents less an hour.

Another job with that same company is looking for a security supervisor for a university staff. $18 an hour. They require a few more certifications, but i checked up on them and things like CPR training is a day course for $60. The more advanced stuff I see will run me $200 per test, but that allows me to apply for the next job...


I saw a job offered for (I forget the title) but the salary is $50k per year with benefits. Now, that isn't balling money, but that is hella good for someone with only a highschool diploma. And I am in my last year at Uni I am 100% sure I can leverage more and higher paying positions. And that is before I realized my license is mine and allows me to offer my services directly to anyone willing to hire me. I have been acting like a lazy "drone" when i should be acting like an independent contractor.

The fact that i make crap money now is 100% entirely my fault. And I am going for my level 3 in the 1'st and then my CPR cert as well as talking to my boss for a supervisor slot at a new site. And all this is only for the experience I need to start moving to those higher paying jobs.


Edit: Just for fun I calculated my expenses if I were able to get that second job I was looking at. Basically, If I had gotten on the ball 1 year ago.

With a 1,000 going towards a house and expenses per month (Calculated a home instead of rent), 380 for school loan payback, 400 per month for a car (Don't wanna get into that -_-), and all basically all my bills I forsee having (phone electricity etc) I would take home $1500 per month in disposable money. And yes, I accounted for $1,800 + 15% in taxes. I'm fucking stupid and lazy and I hate that.

thats very very wide problem - people dont look at wider perspective of 10-20 years ahead only think about what is now and what they want to buy now - its the fault of school and teachers but mostly parents who didnt tought them to plan ahead