Invasion Final Stage 'Bad Design'

[jellmoo]

Because if using it to level one loses a lot of xp. What is so hard for you to get here?

Ignoring the fact that I've not talked about levelling at all...

So? It's already a hyper quick way to level. Should there be zero risk at all?

[Jewsco]

For gear drops correct. For exp, wrong. Not sure about shards.

Need to tag for xp and shards but still get shards and boxes if dead but no xp

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Ignoring the fact that I've not talked about levelling at all...

So? It's already a hyper quick way to level. Should there be zero risk at all?

Zero risk versus instant death are two entirely different things but you seem unable to grasp that

[Auxora]

I would'nt even mind dying on the boss (over and over again), but if you are dead and the boss dies you won't get the kill XP.

This. It's lead to people below 100 staying at far ranged out of distance of all their attacks until the last 20% or so, which makes the fights take longer. I realize changing this would not be simple since it would be global and could affect other things. But the main thing is that the final bosses all seem to have a 1-shot unforgiving attack that tends to not scale well and instakills most sub-100s.

Overall I think the event is amazing and the best since the scourge event, which I began to doubt they could do an event as well again. In fact this one might even be better than that one, the best ever. But there are a few small things like this that are a bit off. They aren't that big of a deal, they can be worked around. But it would have been a bit better had sub-100s felt like they could contribute on world bosses, without risking big xp loss for getting 1-shot with no chance of avoidance.

A few more items to purchase with netharshards would be nice too. I have many thousands and nothing else to spend them on (already have all the xmog and other items) unless I just stock up about 50 fel bat pups lol.

[Amerissis]

Not entirely besides the point. While you can avoid most of the boss's AoE if you're careful, I see no way a melee staying near the boss can avoid the splash damage that comes from enemy players just fighting the boss - a problem you don't have with PvP disabled. So even at 100, I find myself retreating regularly from the invasion end boss as a melee, because the Alliance cleaves tend to wear me down pretty quickly.

Good point. But then that's not the boss being unforgiving, but the opposite faction I can see how it's annoying af and I'm happy I don't have to deal with that.

You do know it is much easier to avoid all that as ranged? In melee with the new camera distance pretty easy to miss all the junk the boss is spewing out. And one shit mechanics are hard to avoid and have no leeway.

Oh, yes, but I meant different mechanics that melee doesn't have a problem with, like the cones/cleaves or those fire patches. I never got hit by all that as melee (zoom out distance is more then adequate for me, I never zoomed out more then the UI would let me), but I did die on that as ranged. Well, a few times, I do learn :P

[jellmoo]

Zero risk versus instant death are two entirely different things but you seem unable to grasp that

I grasp it just fine. I just think it's entirely irrelevant. You have a system that let's you level really quickly, with the only risk being you might not get the whole bundle of xp. And that's only under the single condition of your toon being dead when the boss drops. Why is this a problem?

[Davemetalhead]

One thing that annoys me a little is when a DPS gets aggro and then proceeds to try and run away, pulling the boss away from everyone. Just stand still and die, the boss'll catch you and kill you anyway. A couple of times I've seen the boss go into evade mode but thankfully it doesn't seem to reset the encounter and the boss' health.

[Sansnom]

It might have been intended but any one who has ever wiped several times would tell you its not fun at all ..

Personally, I hate the removal of the self heal. I play as a shadow priest and it was nice to just be able to heal up in between combat. The heal is not efficient in a group setting but it works. I also remember the off healing as a shadow priest in low level dungeons before dual specs.

That is all gone now. I still do not know why the removal of self heal. Is it really that DPS with very limited heals gives them a significant advantage?

[tumppu]

For gear drops correct. For exp, wrong. Not sure about shards.

You get xp from each completed stage but this was lowered quite a bit. Now you probably get more xp from killing like half a dozen mobs than from the stage alone. Even just tagging mobs nets you partial kill xp which will quickly become more than the stage xp from idling.

You get shards from the stage completions (and lootboxes), but you will not get them from the mobs, unless you tag them (and this means the "rare"/named mobs which show up on the map).

**

Oh and on topic:

There's indeed plenty of abilities, which do not scale at all, or very very poorly. Those AOE things were already mentioned and then there's my personal "favorite", the Shits of Argus, which often linger long after the boss has been killed, oneshotting lowlevel chars who unknowingly land on the FP. It's amusing, unless that lowlevel character is you.

[Mehrunes]

The real bad design is the ultra crap scaling with levels. At vanilla levels the invasion is pretty much cakewalk other than iffy scaling coming in full force at the final boss. And some unbalanced exp gains. But levels 90+? Yes, sure, I'll take the 250k Doom from this named non-boss Doomguard when I have half of that.

[Deleted]

I grasp it just fine. I just think it's entirely irrelevant. You have a system that let's you level really quickly, with the only risk being you might not get the whole bundle of xp. And that's only under the single condition of your toon being dead when the boss drops. Why is this a problem?

Appearently it's a big problem as I see a lot of people complaining about others tagging the boss and go hiding in the building without participating in the fight at all.
So you get a lot of tag-and-hide players.
Leveling players that chose to participate in the fight, and help down the boss quicker have a big chance to be punished by getting less experience compared to the hiders. That is bad design.

[Puri]

A couple of times I've seen the boss go into evade mode but thankfully it doesn't seem to reset the encounter and the boss' health.

I might be wrong there, but I think the XP you get for the kill severly suffers when a mob evaded once, and you only get a fraction (perhaps the remaining health/max health fraction) when he dies. I only got 600XP for a final stage mob when he was evading at about 1% left.

[Deleted]

When I fight them as melee I invariably get aggro and die to one melee swing.

Apart from that though, it's not so bad. Fel Reaver is much deadlier than any final boss.

[Sansnom]

Tanks are there and we are trying our best. I can handle about a boss with no external heals for a while (I managed to keep one on me till I died at 9% QQQ) but they really hit hard. A single healer focusing the tanks would help but most healers don't really know what to heal people outside a group setting (their UI isn't set up for that).

Currently running a shadow priest to try to reach 100. But once done, I will definitely try as a healing on my Shaman. Especially now I am not use to the Enhancement changes.

Would be interesting to see how it runs as a healer.

[Puri]

Currently running a shadow priest to try to reach 100. But once done, I will definitely try as a healing on my Shaman. Especially now I am not use to the Enhancement changes.

Would be interesting to see how it runs as a healer.

If you want to heal somehow effectively outside your group and you use the default UI you have to activate friendly player nameplates (nothing new here) but you also have to reactivate the option to show all nameplates (Interface->Names) and not just the one you are targetting (which is somehow pointless but yet default since 7.0).

[Santti]

So far for me, the worst thing is that it ends so abruptly and the next part is not presented to us yet. I searched the forums to make sure it wasnt a bug because it felt like it just didnt give me the next part even though it gave me the context of it.

That is not good quest design at all.

I completely agree. It was very confusing to see demons suddenly attacking Dalaran after handing in the book with no follow-up. There was talk about a bug as well in the chat.

[Jewsco]

I grasp it just fine. I just think it's entirely irrelevant. You have a system that let's you level really quickly, with the only risk being you might not get the whole bundle of xp. And that's only under the single condition of your toon being dead when the boss drops. Why is this a problem?

I did say it is first world problems but none the less it is a problem to die from one shot hits. What can't you get here. Add in some bosses give that debuff that kills even 100s if not dispelled and one can and does die a lot and that was the point of this thread that you seem to not get.

[Puri]

Okay but isn't it fair then? If XP is that you are after, that means you are lower level and fighting a massive demon that is higher level, lowers your chances of survival. This is true when you start at level 1.

Then the mobs should not scale at all. Then you have the clear level difference. But by far the most things scale pretty well, only some abilities are off.
Which leads to what the people here describe: Low levels just tag the mob and get to safety, instead of helping.
And the relative power of low level players in full heirlooms is vastly superior to the average ilevel 700 player and would immensly help killing the boss faster.

[Eurhetemec]

The big problem here is the combination of:

1) "Somebody has to tank it" meaning somebody has to die, because you ain't getting no HEALS, count on it, and indeed I'm not even sure if you brought a grouped healer that they could keep you up (you might need multiple ones). So even as tank, I go in there knowing I'm going to die, just wondering when, and praying it's far enough from the boss' death that I get the XP (if leveling - I care a lot less at 100). I mean, I can survive a while with no heals, just blowing cooldowns and so on. Sometimes shockingly long. But death comes in the end. And if it comes seconds before the boss dies, well, BALLS.

and

2) Crummy graveyard placement, esp. w/hilarious boss knockbacks. I've been knocked back so far by stage 4 bosses that I wasn't even res'ing at a "res wave" GY. Really ALL the GYs in the zone, no exceptions, should be running res-waves. It's stupid that any aren't.

and

3) The whole rest of it can be done fine un-grouped and the whole event moves so fast that grouping up isn't terribly practical. So suddenly switching to ULTRAMEGADAMAGE from manageable seems crummy.

and

4) Some abilities scale really poorly. Very few don't scale at all, but many more scale poorly, for example, I have a Level 80 Prot Pally in heirlooms/dungeon gear - and one boss melee ability hit me (repeatedly) for 35k-ish. So no surviving that (well, not for long). Whereas the same ability hit my L100 for like 100k-ish. That scaling is clearly borked.

and

5) It's really hard to see what's going on, and DBM is hilariously bad at the events, too (I liked the "Shadow Blast" run away warning happening with 1 second left on the cast... GJ DBM WP - I'd already run away because I'd seen the purple but...).

So it's a mess, and it's really only stage 4 that's total disaster. I'd suggest they just tone down the main target damage and slightly tone down the AOE stuff (that's less vital). Also the knockbacks, whilst hysterical, need to be less, or all GYs need to have res waves.

And the relative power of low level players in full heirlooms is vastly superior to the average ilevel 700 player and would immensly help killing the boss faster.

Indeed! Going full burst damage on my L50 Survival Hunter is more likely to pull aggro than the same on my L100 DH or DK, and I seem to drop non-boss mobs faster. What's sad is it's really good fun until Stage 4...

[Jetstream]

Let's see... Annoying mechanics...

Slumber Fog... the Lightning Towers (those inst-gib you and have no warning, you're just dead)... Flamecallers in GENERAL...

[Deleted]

What is wrong with a little crazyness ? I enjoy it, and so do the vendors that repairs my armor :P