Need advice Prot or Ret?

[Verreck]

Hey everyone,

I cant seem to decide what spec is going to be best for me to play when legion hits, normally I switch off between the two but my playing time this expansion is going to be decreased drastically. And with how artifact weapons work i am afraid of making the wrong choice for my main spec.

I pretty much just want to know what everyone thinks in terms of which spec is going to be more optimal for mythic + dungeons (i think that is what they are called). And normal/heroic raiding. I know Prot will prob help me find groups faster but if it sucks and Ret is in better shape id rather play that, not to mention Ashbringer is pretty dam cool.

Anyway any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thank you

V

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

I'd lean toward prot, Its pretty easy to lvl and if you are on a pvp server, people will think twice before attacking you. I don't feel Ret will be in a good place starting the first raid, It will need some changes or tuning for mythic if they expect them to be picked. My opinion is Bear and Prot tanks are the best at 110 atm.

[PeopleReady]

I am assuming you are mainly going to do LFG and LFR, maybe PuG Mythic or a Normal raid from what you are saying (i.e. you are not in a guild that organizes runs for instanced content).

As you do not sound like the person who will take initiative to form his own group, I would suggest picking up prot and tanking so that you actually get to do some Mythic dungeons. Ret is right now at best middle of the pack. On the other hand while Prot can be good as a tank it will likely be a tank with a significant performance gap between good and great players. And because it has the smallest of health pools it can be very punishing to play.

So if you are interested in learning your class and maybe picking up a decent PuG group in Oqueue, pick prot. If you expect you will end up doing LFG/LFR and maybe the odd Mythic (+1) dungeon you are better off picking Ret.

Btw the Ashbinger is all looks and little power (it adds a very solid 30sec AoE burst to your rotation and that's it when it comes to scaling). Meanwhile Truthguard is a powerhouse of an artifact.

Do you feel Ret will not see any higher mythic+ dungeons?

[OrcsRLame]

Prot is incredibly strong in mythic+. Possibly the strongest tank at higher gear levels. 5 Target AS legendary is fucking stupid with the new Bulwark of Order.

While I don't think ret's damage is as terrible as many would have you believe, their utility is not good compared to other melee for mythic+. Lack of AoE stuns or any other meaningful non-damage based abilities really hurts ret compared to specs like Fury that bring commanding shout and an AoE stun and competitive damage and better mobility.

[PeopleReady]

Prot is incredibly strong in mythic+. Possibly the strongest tank at higher gear levels. 5 Target AS legendary is fucking stupid with the new Bulwark of Order.

While I don't think ret's damage is as terrible as many would have you believe, their utility is not good compared to other melee for mythic+. Lack of AoE stuns or any other meaningful non-damage based abilities really hurts ret compared to specs like Fury that bring commanding shout and an AoE stun and competitive damage and better mobility.

Its odd I've watched Sloot clear +6-+9 on stream with a random collection of classes and players, 2-3 of which are just viewers at any given time. He wasn't exactly min/maxing the crew.

[Splatter]

Don't worry about struggling to keep an OS artifact up to standard, its very easy to do. I played the beta quite a bit and had my Prot, Ret and Holy weapons all on roughly equal footing. It took more effort to get suitable OS trinkets than keeping the artifact to a suitable level.

[Project 501D13R]

Its odd I've watched Sloot clear +6-+9 on stream with a random collection of classes and players, 2-3 of which are just viewers at any given time. He wasn't exactly min/maxing the crew.

min/maxing in mythic plus isn't as critical as mythic raiding, the pruning has left a lot of specs fairly close.
Success in mythic+ is more about everyone knowing the dungeon and how to deal with the modifier mechanics than anything else.

[yango]

I ve the same question. I will mainly play my Pally, but with artifact, u just need to know, how to save and use ur AP.
Normally I play as Ret in Raids and as Prot for 5 Mans. So my question is; Does it makes sense to level as prot and spend some Points in Prot and use the first weeks after hitting 110 for Ashbringer? I just saw here some people say, u can use AP for 13 traits, since then the AP increase extrem for the next traits, I guess the cost was 1-13=trait 14, so I could fill Prot until 13 and then go for ashbringer?
I love the whole artifact thing for Legion but maaaan, the whole pooling of AP is really shitty. Dont know if my plan is ok?

[OrcsRLame]

Its odd I've watched Sloot clear +6-+9 on stream with a random collection of classes and players, 2-3 of which are just viewers at any given time. He wasn't exactly min/maxing the crew.

Indeed. Just so we're clear, I am not saying ret cannot clear 6-9 mythic+. I am saying that mechanically, ret is inferior to some other melee concerning overall utility. Lack of an AoE stun, AoE grip, mobility or any kind of group wide CD makes ret less good than some other options.

Take that how you will.

[Deleted]

Yeah it will be fine. You could even stop with Truthguard once you have Bulwark of Order (9 points?), since that is pretty much the only "must have" trait there. Coincidentally, this is also about where you will end up after hitting 110.

[OrcsRLame]

All specs are viable for the first 10 levels of Mythic if the player is decent. Again I ask, how are you planning to play in Legion? You were not particularly specific in the OP. If you have a group of friends and are planning to run Mythic+ Prot is probably quite stronger than Ret but that doesn't mean Ret is bad unless you want to rank out of this (lvl 15 keystones will likely be possible with all specs when we get our hands in Nighthold gear and double legendaries for instance).

I agree with this but I'll be a bit more extreme. I think any combination of specs, (so long as they conform to 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps with a bloodlust and a BR) will be able to clear at least 20 once we're rocking BiS Nighthold gear. Wouldn't be surprised to see top clears being 25-30. People are clearing 12+ with ~865 ilvl, sub optimal comp, 1 legendary, no tier, ~25 traits and very little special gear from CoS/Arcway. Jack it up to 920 ilvl with 4PT19, 2 legendaries, OP gear from CoS/Arcway and 54 traits with a really optimal comp and perfect play, then who knows.

[Orator]

I just started playing again and feel dreadfully lost, I haven't raided seriously at all since the first tier in Cata and I quit near immediately after hitting level 100 at WoD launch. I know pre patch doesn't mean dick but what are my stat weights, what should my rotation be, am I better off putting on full invasion gear even if I have or can get pieces with better secondary stat weights?

For example I got Gaze of Superiority in LFR tonight and the 94 Crit and 242 Haste seem better than the blue helm I have with 141 Crit and Haste but the Invasion helm gives 214 Crit and 214 mastery and from what I think I understand the stat weight is Str > Haste to 30% > Crit > Mastery=/=Versatility. But does losing 2-3% haste justified that extra boost to strength and crit?

Character name is Squiddab on Thrall, it won't let me link my armory because I never bothered to make an account here over the years.

For rotation I have been just been trying to get to 5 HP and then using judgement at 4/5 or 5/5 depending on my crusader strike cooldown then use TV from there I don't know if I am suppose to cast one more crusader strike to get another TV out while I have my judgement debuff up. So to clean that up a little I am basically just doing

CS>BoW>Cs>Judgement>CS>TV>CS>TV

Like I said depending on CS cooldown ill judgement at 4 or 5. Any help is appreciated I have played this same paladin since vanilla and was a pretty good player when I had the time to raid back in Wrath/Cata I use to know every class and spec inside and out so it's quite sad to feel so lost coming back but it's also been nice.
Any advice is appreciated and hopefully this isn't to out of place for the thread, very sorry for the sloppy writing/formatting of the post as well.

PS Final Verdict or Execution Sentence?

[OrcsRLame]

I just started playing again and feel dreadfully lost, I haven't raided seriously at all since the first tier in Cata and I quit near immediately after hitting level 100 at WoD launch. I know pre patch doesn't mean dick but what are my stat weights, what should my rotation be, am I better off putting on full invasion gear even if I have or can get pieces with better secondary stat weights?

For example I got Gaze of Superiority in LFR tonight and the 94 Crit and 242 Haste seem better than the blue helm I have with 141 Crit and Haste but the Invasion helm gives 214 Crit and 214 mastery and from what I think I understand the stat weight is Str > Haste to 30% > Crit > Mastery=/=Versatility. But does losing 2-3% haste justified that extra boost to strength and crit?

Character name is Squiddab on Thrall, it won't let me link my armory because I never bothered to make an account here over the years.

For rotation I have been just been trying to get to 5 HP and then using judgement at 4/5 or 5/5 depending on my crusader strike cooldown then use TV from there I don't know if I am suppose to cast one more crusader strike to get another TV out while I have my judgement debuff up. So to clean that up a little I am basically just doing

CS>BoW>Cs>Judgement>CS>TV>CS>TV

Like I said depending on CS cooldown ill judgement at 4 or 5. Any help is appreciated I have played this same paladin since vanilla and was a pretty good player when I had the time to raid back in Wrath/Cata I use to know every class and spec inside and out so it's quite sad to feel so lost coming back but it's also been nice.
Any advice is appreciated and hopefully this isn't to out of place for the thread, very sorry for the sloppy writing/formatting of the post as well.

PS Final Verdict or Execution Sentence?

This guide is a pretty good starting point. http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classe...ution/overview

I don't agree with everything in it and I think the talent descriptions lack nuance compared to some guides I've seen for other specs, but it's not bad. The thing I disagree with the most is the way to spec the artifact, as I think any serious raider will take the long way around to Ashes to Ashes as that allows you to get all 3 major traits 3 ranks faster.

Concerning gear, when in doubt go by item level. If you don't know exactly what you're doing and why it's not worth it to try and play with your secondary stats to that level.

At level 100 Execution Sentence is close to Final Verdict on strict single target, but when we get Ashbringer that will change very quickly in favor of FV.

[Deleted]

Ret pally will be fine for mythic raiding, stop fear mongering.

[marinos]

Ret pally will be fine for mythic raiding, stop fear mongering.

Ofc ret will be fine for mythic raiding, 5-6 months after everyone has cleared it and is on farm.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Ret pally will be fine for mythic raiding, stop fear mongering.

You make some hilarious jokes, do you also think that Ret will be fine in high-end PvP too?

[OrcsRLame]

Ofc ret will be fine for mythic raiding, 5-6 months after everyone has cleared it and is on farm.

Ret will be fine outside of shit like top 20 world. If you're not putting attempts on mythic Xavius within the first month of mythic being available, then your players are bad enough that a skilled ret will do just fine.

- - - Updated - - -

You make some hilarious jokes, do you also think that Ret will be fine in high-end PvP too?

Statistically speaking, high end pvp is much more exclusive than mythic raiding, and historically the balance has been much worse in a relative sense.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Statistically speaking, high end pvp is much more exclusive than mythic raiding, and historically the balance has been much worse in a relative sense.

Is that supposed to be soothing?

[OrcsRLame]

Is that supposed to be soothing?

No, I was just saying that equating high end pvp with mythic raiding concerning viability is fucking retarded. You have my condolences that ret sucks so badly in pvp.

[Morally Grey Storm]

No, I was just saying that equating high end pvp with mythic raiding concerning viability is fucking retarded. You have my condolences that ret sucks so badly in pvp.

a fine point.

Though it is not "fucking retarded", I would assume, to want to have your spec be viable there , or there, or at both sides of game.
Rets are upset we're not top-dogs in both, and barelysemikindaviable at best.