Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf...

[Deleted]

You got it wrong. What you are describing is a player in a top 100 guild. Everyone else will most likely progress just fine (in Heroic and above) with the class and spec they choose.

believe there were like top 100kills of M archi with ferals and such, and they still were able to kill it, and lower end guilds wil usaly benefit more from just folowing tacts better then people playing spec thats bit stronger.

[Dracovian]

i agree with most you say, but non mythic people who dont play best spec can also care about performance like getting best possible numbers out of that spec. dk utlity is chains of ice a very good slow, double grip for unholy, corpseshield for UH, a ranged stun and posisble CS for being able to dmg more from rnaged then other mele spec, and on some fights utility is better then stait up dps. f
ire may be best dps spec , but can change that later other classes will beat it. and For burst aoe uh is better then fire, 3times epidemic, dnd/Defile + SS cleave.beats DB or Flamestrike. and for spread aoe aslong dot is on the mobs unholy is best of all with 100yard range of epidemic.

I agree that people on lower difficulties can care about their performance but we were discussing people who care about progression. DKs utilities are the grips. Everything else you listed are defensive cooldowns and CS being a talent. The developers already said at gamescom they won't be changing specs hierarchy. If Fire is the best now it will remain so for the foreseeable future. You can read about in this site's front page. Unholy possibly has more AoE potential than Fire depending on the procs but I already said Unholy is very good. Frost is not and that's what I've been saying. Even so, Fire's overall damage is borderline OP.

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You got it wrong. What you are describing is a player in a top 100 guild. Everyone else will most likely progress just fine (in Heroic and above) with the class and spec they choose.

There are always players who get carried, sure. I personally prefer to contribute to my raid instead of getting carried by the superior specs but if you don't mind doing less damage than you could be doing that's your choice.

[Deleted]

I'm a sad DK but maybe this will cheer you guys up as well.
Hopefully DH's get the nerfs next.

Side note the nerfs that are annoying me the most.
The recent changes to blood (why???)
Across the board we need better mobility not less.
Buff Unholy overall damage.

Change class or cry less. Nothing else to say to you really.

[Deleted]

I agree that people on lower difficulties can care about their performance but we were discussing people who care about progression. DKs utilities are the grips. Everything else you listed are defensive cooldowns and CS being a talent. The developers already said at gamescom they won't be changing specs hierarchy. If Fire is the best now it will remain so for the foreseeable future. You can read about in this site's front page. Unholy possibly has more AoE potential than Fire depending on the procs but I already said Unholy is very good. Frost is not and that's what I've been saying. Even so, Fire's overall damage is borderline OP.

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There are always players who get carried, sure. I personally prefer to contribute to my raid instead of getting carried by the superior specs but if you don't mind doing less damage than you could be doing that's your choice.

they said per class the number 1spec of that class will stay number 1of that class, they dint say anything about class/spec thats number 1 of all, wont necesary stay number 1 dps of all specs.


And with second youre basicly saying people in top 100 get carried, yeah lol not all.

[Dracovian]

they said per class the number 1spec of that class will stay number 1of that class, they dint say anything about class/spec thats number 1 of all, wont necesary stay number 1 dps of all specs.


And with second youre basicly saying people in top 100 get carried, yeah lol not all.

The way Ion said that can be interpreted different way but okay, let's assume it's as you say. Fire will still be a top 3 dps considering how far ahead of everyone else it is at the moment.

It has happened that players with inferior specs can be successful. You can definitely be suboptimal and still get the job done in a top 100 guild but it can't be denied that if such players were using a better spec you could have cleared a few seconds/minutes on some bosses which could be relevant in tight races.

[Deleted]

people confuse nerf with tuned.

[Deleted]

people confuse nerf with tuned.

this ^ tuning isnt done yet, it will be when raids are out on live adn even then we can see changes.

[oplawlz]

this ^ tuning isnt done yet, it will be when raids are out on live adn even then we can see changes.

Tuning will be essentially stopped once Legion hits about a week from now. Bliz is specifically leaving specs alone once the artifacts are in because they can't be bothered to implement an artifact power refund, meaning players are committed to the spec they main if they care about personal performance.

[Deleted]

Tuning will be essentially stopped once Legion hits about a week from now. Bliz is specifically leaving specs alone once the artifacts are in because they can't be bothered to implement an artifact power refund, meaning players are committed to the spec they main if they care about personal performance.

i mean spec that top for their class will stay so, but if spec does now say 800k dps, they could still change it that it does say 500k dps, while that spec still remaing best of their class

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The way Ion said that can be interpreted different way but okay, let's assume it's as you say. Fire will still be a top 3 dps considering how far ahead of everyone else it is at the moment.

It has happened that players with inferior specs can be successful. You can definitely be suboptimal and still get the job done in a top 100 guild but it can't be denied that if such players were using a better spec you could have cleared a few seconds/minutes on some bosses which could be relevant in tight races.

how good player is makes more difference often then using a spec. also this is a game, you cant force people to play X spec cause its bit better.

[Deleted]

Tuning will be essentially stopped once Legion hits about a week from now. Bliz is specifically leaving specs alone once the artifacts are in because they can't be bothered to implement an artifact power refund, meaning players are committed to the spec they main if they care about personal performance.

tuning for WoD didnt finish until 6.2.4

please do not spread misinformation.

Blizzard have never said they can't be bothered to tune artifact weapons so live with what you get. Legion is not even out and you seem to have made up your mind about everything to do with it. Quite strange but a common attitude for a lot of people.

[Holofernes]

lol u dks are the first melee in wow that says movement is a problem.

[Deleted]

this ^ tuning isnt done yet, it will be when raids are out on live adn even then we can see changes.

Yeah Blizzard have never failed our trust in tuning

[Deleted]

Yeah Blizzard have never failed our trust in tuning

Legion isnt even out yet and in each expansion before raid and even when they were out there were Always changes till end of expanison, tuning keeps going till end of expansion

[Nemesquish]

I think they said that on a twich stream. you have to look it up for yourself. sorry bro it would be too much to do. Furty or Deepshade or someone like that

This was most likely well before testing with Legendaries went in...Warlocks are in a better spot than mages on spread fight...Literally no reason not to bring them.

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lol u dks are the first melee in wow that says movement is a problem.

You probably dont raid very much, but melee movement has always been something on that radar for everyone in PvE...

At this point, Dks can barely make it out of a 1 shot mechanic if there 45 sec CD isnt up, not to mention the added benefit of being last to get back to the Boss after a wipe, when everyone else is buffed/fed and ready to go, you're just gettng back...

Some of the runs in the next 2 raids are ridiculous.

[Holofernes]

This was most likely well before testing with Legendaries went in...Warlocks are in a better spot than mages on spread fight...Literally no reason not to bring them.

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You probably dont raid very much, but melee movement has always been something on that radar for everyone in PvE...

At this point, Dks can barely make it out of a 1 shot mechanic if there 45 sec CD isnt up, not to mention the added benefit of being last to get back to the Boss after a wipe, when everyone else is buffed/fed and ready to go, you're just gettng back...

Some of the runs in the next 2 raids are ridiculous.

I think the problem is that Dk players are used to their enhanced movement speed and are therefore slower in reacting to this stuff compared to other classes players.
The whole movment speed crazyness ,it ended in rogues in stealth beeing faster than epic mounted players, startet with dk introduction, and now its back to normal for everyone, caster got their on the move casting stopped, most melees got rid of their baseline movement speed stuff (like dps warrior for example no friendly target charge anymore, which is hurting a lot too, or hunters with chetah being a short sprint with 3 min cd, or rogue sprint beeing VERY slow compared to a few weeks ago).

And last time as i checked all melee classes can still attack mobs while moving. casters cant. And i dont only raid very much because we clear hfc myth last two bosses on thursday and thats about it.

But one question still remains: why should a dk be 10 % faster than everyone else? i fail to see any reason why some class should be faster than everyone else in this game.

[Deleted]

I think the problem is that Dk players are used to their enhanced movement speed and are therefore slower in reacting to this stuff compared to other classes players.
The whole movment speed crazyness ,it ended in rogues in stealth beeing faster than epic mounted players, startet with dk introduction, and now its back to normal for everyone, caster got their on the move casting stopped, most melees got rid of their baseline movement speed stuff (like dps warrior for example no friendly target charge anymore, which is hurting a lot too, or hunters with chetah being a short sprint with 3 min cd, or rogue sprint beeing VERY slow compared to a few weeks ago).

And last time as i checked all melee classes can still attack mobs while moving. casters cant. And i dont only raid very much because we clear hfc myth last two bosses on thursday and thats about it.

But one question still remains: why should a dk be 10 % faster than everyone else? i fail to see any reason why some class should be faster than everyone else in this game.

'Sometimes its fun to be different from other classes you know. Being unique

[Hoeth]

'Sometimes its fun to be different from other classes you know. Being unique

You can be unique by "donating" an extra 10% of your income to the government in taxes.

Doesn't make it fun.

[Deleted]

You can be unique by "donating" an extra 10% of your income to the government in taxes.

Doesn't make it fun.

Thats why we want to be unique in a fun way

[elfporn]

people confuse nerf with tuned.

Dankestbud.

[Dracovian]

how good player is makes more difference often then using a spec. also this is a game, you cant force people to play X spec cause its bit better.

Again, all my points are under the assumption that all players involved are of equal skill in which case the superior spec just wins. Of course, you can't force anyone to play a spec. Competitive players choose to play the best spec to help their group as much as they possibly can because to them getting the kill is more important than having the most fun.

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lol u dks are the first melee in wow that says movement is a problem.

So I guess you've never made it past LFR huh? Yeah, in your case you can just stand there and get healed through all the mechanics. It doesn't work that way in the higher difficulties.