Does exclusivity make a better game? Gating content

[Ghostile]

The problem is that it created a situation where top guilds were poaching players from each other because nobody else was attuned. If people had to stop raiding for whatever reason, you were fucked because the only other people who would be attuned/geared were other people from top guilds.

That and, attunements were highly alt-unfriendly. Grinding to Revered with multiple reps on multiple characters was not fun at all.

Yeah, poaching was the downside of it and the impossibility of rerolling.

They should do something like an attunement, but one that doesn't encourage poaching and one that is account wide.

[Eurhetemec]

Again, with the Wildstar fallacy. Wildstar failed because it was broken on release, bugged to all hell, and unfinished. I myself had to grind the last few levels on zones because the entire last zone was an "underwater fatigue" bug that treated my character as if he were drowning. Adventures were bugged, dungeons were bugged, itemization was not correct, classes were broken. Stop with the Wildstar myth, people.

I take your point re: bugged, but my point would be that exclusivity/grind/etc. was clearly not enough of a draw to get people to hold on past that, nor to return once it was fixed.

[Eleccybubb]

Again, with the Wildstar fallacy. Wildstar failed because it was broken on release, bugged to all hell, and unfinished. I myself had to grind the last few levels on zones because the entire last zone was an "underwater fatigue" bug that treated my character as if he were drowning. Adventures were bugged, dungeons were bugged, itemization was not correct, classes were broken. Stop with the Wildstar myth, people.

Wildstar was a failure because it appealed to a hardcore playerbase with a sub as well. You just cannot do that in this age especially with a sub model. There has to be something for everything from Casual to Midcore to Hardcore. Also yeah that shitfest was buggy as hell on launch. I tried to run Stormtalon and it decided it didn't want to actually load me in or spawn a boss when I did eventually get in.

[Xheoul]

I think everyone should be able to see content. Even casual players should be able to see the raids, experience the lore and do the boss fights. If your enjoyment of the game is limited to simply seeing content then there is no point in doing anything above LFR. However, even now, people that want to have their characters decked out in the strongest gear, will push through and get the best in slot. People that queue for LFR only might get epics, sure, but it's nowhere near the scope of power a hardcore raider will obtain.

[MrKnubbles]

I don't care. I just want enough stuff to keep me busy.

[Raelbo]

the bigger issue lies with Blizzard always going from one extreme to the next without stopping at a middle ground. MoP had literally over 40 dailies per day at max level until you got enough rep for all the factions so you could buy JP and VP gear.

Ironically the only problem with this system was how players took things to the extreme.

The reality of the MoP reputation system was that weekly VP cap meant that you didn't need to do a lot of dailies per day in order to spend your VP on the reputation rewards. While we had the option to tackle all four factions (plus the farm) simultaneously and get it done in two weeks of flat out playing, doing it over 8 weeks worked just as well while ensuring the content lasted longer, and we didn't burn ourselves out....

[anon5123]

The guild poaching aspect was a bit rough, but attunements served a purpose beyond time-sinks. They kinda proved you were capable of handling some of the mechanics for the next tier. Want to start raiding? Fine, finish 2 of the hardest Heroic Dungeons (at launch) we have. Want to progress into T5, prove you can handle T4, because if you couldn't handle right-clicking a cube on Mag you probably weren't going to be much use doing cores on Lady Vashj. Want to see Illidan and Archi, prove you can handle their underlings in T5. Cause if you couldn't handle the adds/items on KT you weren't going to do well with Illidan's adds or Archi's tears.

As far as the alts aspect goes, some of the attunements were part of the natural progression (as a person who had 2 toons attuned to T6 and 2 to T5) but if it was that much of an issue Blizzard could just make attunements account wide.

Mm. I wouldn't mind TBC-type attunements if they were account wide.

Doing stuff like the Onyxia attunement quest chain was fun once; having to do it on every character was cancer.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Ironically the only problem with this system was how players took things to the extreme.

The reality of the MoP reputation system was that weekly VP cap meant that you didn't need to do a lot of dailies per day in order to spend your VP on the reputation rewards. While we had the option to tackle all four factions (plus the farm) simultaneously and get it done in two weeks of flat out playing, doing it over 8 weeks worked just as well while ensuring the content lasted longer, and we didn't burn ourselves out....

The problem is that the system was set up in a manner that enabled and encouraged players take it to that extreme. This is why rules and restrictions exist, there are always going to be people who go to the extreme limit of what can be done. The system should be set up in a manner that doesn't let these people reach that point, and it would've just required any number of changes to avoid that. If only cosmetic items had been locked behind exalted/revered, it wouldn't have been nearly so widespread an issue. If they had locked you into only being able to do dailies for one or two factions per day that would've also prevented the issue from being so pervasive.

A system that is set up poorly isn't somehow the fault of the players, the players aren't the ones who created that system and structured the rewards to require you doing 40+ dailies a day to proceed down the most efficient path.

[Deleted]

There should always be multiple paths to the same content and rewards. Different people have different skill sets and interests, and WoW has evolved into a game where these need to be acknowledged.

Now, it may not be the same amount of time or the same timeframe, but the content should be available to all. Cutting edge progression raiders may get their firt, but there absolutely needs to be a path for others to get there in other fashions as well.

I disagree completely with everything you just said, there is a way to get there but if you're not willing to then you're not entitled to it either. This is the way any progression system works time invested = results.

[Sansnom]

I don't get the "LFR only" community All they want is the epics. They don't want to raid, so why be there?

That is what you think. You think raiders do not want epics? If that was the case, why did they complain about having to run LFR? For giggles? Remove epics from the other difficulties and see how raiders continue to raid that.

I do think that some of the LFR are not that interested in raiding. So, yes, why be there. Because there is little character progression outside raiding. If players wants to acquire gear, the only place get them is raid. Because Blizzards wants players to raid.

Whether you like it not that more players are getting into raid, that is what Blizzard is focusing on. Because otherwise, Blizzard will need to focus on something else. If that happens, you can kiss your "exclusive raids" goodbye.

Be happy that you are getting what you want. Yeah, you don't get to be that special snowflakes in shiny raid gear in front of the bank anymore. That is the price YOU have to pay for having raids. The others are paying more because they are not getting the content that truly want.

[Demithio]

So then, why make LFR? If WOTLK worked as well as you claim, why the need for LFR?

To them, this a game. They play when they feel like playing. Not because they have to so others can play. As you said, work. This is a game to them. Why should they put any effort into it? You and others like you may derived enjoyment from it. They do not.

So what you're saying is it should cater to the no effort crowd where it all just drops out of the sky and into their laps. Well, I suppose you got your wish, and I suppose wrath-like game play level would be entirely too much for the new WoW playing crowd that the game (temporarily) attracts these days.

[Demithio]

It's not "locking up", it's not "exclusivity" it's called progression and having something to work towards in the game. No one is excluded from anything. Stop this bullshit about things being "locked up" or people being excluded.

No, you see, you used that ugly word. You know the one called "work". We dont like that here, its ... bad. Progression? Does that mean I have to think? Put in a slight amount of effort? Nah. Sounds too much like *gulp* "work"... ugh! Just give us epics!

[Jewsco]

Again, with the Wildstar fallacy. Wildstar failed because it was broken on release, bugged to all hell, and unfinished. I myself had to grind the last few levels on zones because the entire last zone was an "underwater fatigue" bug that treated my character as if he were drowning. Adventures were bugged, dungeons were bugged, itemization was not correct, classes were broken. Stop with the Wildstar myth, people.

Yes being buggy didn't help but all games are at first. Same shit happened in vanilla wow. But show me one example of a hardcore centered game working nowadays? People do not want that anymore unforunatly.

[Deleted]

As long as there is a decent amount of content, as well as a lasting progression/reward structure, for most levels of effort/time invested, I don't see anything wrong with exclusiveness. In a manner of speaking I actually like having "something above me" (be it mythic raiding, high rated PVP, what not...), since there's something to strive for if/when I outgear/outskill/outwhatever my current level of content.

[Eleccybubb]

Yes being buggy didn't help but all games are at first. Same shit happened in vanilla wow. But show me one example of a hardcore centered game working nowadays? People do not want that anymore unforunatly.

Vanilla wow wasn't hardcore though.

[Demithio]

Yes being buggy didn't help but all games are at first. Same shit happened in vanilla wow. But show me one example of a hardcore centered game working nowadays? People do not want that anymore unforunatly.

I dont think WoW necessarily needs to be 'hardcore', but it also doesnt need to be mind numbingly easy and convenient like it is now. No moderation is the issue, and what balance they once had has since been destroyed. Wildstar was just bad, I tried it thinking I may like it, but its theme sucked, the game play sucked (full of technical issues), it just sucked all around. The 'silly slapstick' theme killed it for a lot of people as well. Had nothing to do with being "hardcore".

[ItachiZaku]

I have "legendary ring" and I don't really remember doing anything to get it. When you have end game content, like THE end game content avaialble for everyone, it damages the game. Mystic Archi is not in and of itself, THE end game, just archi is. I don't see a point in doing the same content, but on a harder difficulty, as being content or being more of an end game. I'm glad it is there, but it doesn't make it exclusive. Especially, when anyone with 500K can pay for a carry.

[Demithio]

I have "legendary ring" and I don't really remember doing anything to get it. When you have end game content, like THE end game content avaialble for everyone, it damages the game. Mystic Archi is not in and of itself, THE end game, just archi is. I don't see a point in doing the same content, but on a harder difficulty, as being content or being more of an end game. I'm glad it is there, but it doesn't make it exclusive. Especially, when anyone with 500K can pay for a carry.

Thats funny. I was just looking at my "legendary ring" thinking the same thing. Where did that come from? Oh yeah, the umm "legendary" quest chain, I think. Well, I suppose I'll DE it.

[Ringko]

They did and they stepped into normal raids because that was the only avenue for them to take if they wanted to see raid instances. As I said, in wrath most casual players could see raid content with a bit of work (omg that nasty 4 letter word!) and preparation because it was balanced to allow it without cheapening and rapidly making obsolete the content. Label this whatever you wish, but it gave people (yes and casuals) something to strive for that was actually doable. It also kept them playing and paying sub fees.

Not according to Ghostcrawler: "Most of the players doing LFR just didn't raid at all before. [...]"

[Thelin]

You do realize most of the things u listed has been around since WoW released right?

Hell the expansion most of ur group praises (TBC) started the easy epics.

TBC Started easy epics? False. You were heavily gated in TBC you had to kill Vashj/Kael to get into BT/Hyjal which a lot of guilds couldn't do. They ended up nerfing the fights and then later of scrapping the attunement all together but that wasn't for quite some time.

Yes epics existed easier in TBC in terms of crafting and heroics having 1 epic on the last boss but that was it in terms of ''ease''.