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  1. #201
    Epic! marinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andz View Post
    I can already picture that:
    "Oh what we have 4 ret in the raid? The boss fight is only 1:30 longer, so ret start the taunting rotation. Before that we gonne sacrifice our weakest damage dealer. Hey second tank! Turn around and knee down so you get some crits up your a**. And after 30 secs: Hey you monk, run into the cleave!!! Oh and after that all paladins run into the fire for your shield exploding if it's still up!!!"

    Does that feel like a "Paladin class fantasy" to you dear developer?
    4 ret paladins? It will be a miracle if there is even 1.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by genai View Post
    Its even worse than forums make it out to be. I mean, on forums you have guys actually claiming its not all terrible while talking out of their asses saying stuff thats completely opposite of reality.
    Its terrible in aoe, cleave, target swap and lots of movement fights. Fights its not terrible on: patchwerk style. Combined with 0 utility, you can see the reason why its shit tier, right?

    Has no options, talents are insanely bad and dont change gameplay at all, artifact traits are by far the worst of all classes and specs and baseline is worst design of any class and spec since vanilla probably. On top of having like 1/3 of talents being terribly designed useless shit(equality and... well, most of those on the right), you have half of useful stuff that scales like shit(ES, JV) and will be useless after 1-2 months of exp and never to picked again without rebalancing.
    Pretty much only choice is: DP or crusade? With DP being the only fun improving option in whole spec and crusade being better for min-max stuff... actually making JV even worse as its useless without DP.

    This makes me terribly sad, I thought I found my class for legion. Oh well.

  3. #203
    Deleted
    give it 2-3 weeks before ret gets a buff and everyone will change their tunes.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleReady View Post
    This makes me terribly sad, I thought I found my class for legion. Oh well.
    well if your definition of fun is "be happy in the middle of the pack while struggling titanically against your spec's glaring flaws and weaknesses" then go for it.
    Fun is subjective, or so I'm told.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    give it 2-3 weeks before ret gets a buff and everyone will change their tunes.
    If.

  5. #205
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    give it 2-3 weeks before ret gets a buff and everyone will change their tunes.
    I think you mixed up buff and nerf. Ret dosen´t get buffed on short term base, the only thing you can expect short term for ret is nerfs. IF we get buffed it will be after any kind of meaningful progression and then it will only happen due to the lack of scaling and not because they "feel" we are to weak.
    Listen and listen well when 95% of the senior rets in this and all other forums predict a dark outlook. Then they do so based on statements from devs, test experience and a fuck load of experience. So please shut it.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    I think you mixed up buff and nerf. Ret dosen´t get buffed on short term base, the only thing you can expect short term for ret is nerfs. IF we get buffed it will be after any kind of meaningful progression and then it will only happen due to the lack of scaling and not because they "feel" we are to weak.
    Listen and listen well when 95% of the senior rets in this and all other forums predict a dark outlook. Then they do so based on statements from devs, test experience and a fuck load of experience. So please shut it.
    Hes allowed to say what he wants, its not like you contribute anything noteworthy. All Ive ever seen you do is say negative shit because other people are saying it, hence the bolded lines. Hes allowed to form his own opinions. There are people who have their own opinions believe it or not. Some people actually form there own opinions rather than form their opinions based on senior rets and their opinions like you. Not trying to flame you or anything, but no reason to be a dick to someone who has his own opinion.

    Not trying to say Rets in a good spot. Its not and it wont be until we actually get into EM, and when we do they will probably start changing stuff that would make us competitive. Thats how its been for the last few years for any class thats absolute shit including us, so Id assume thats how its going to be. As for pvp, not really sure if anything is going to change. They might make DS remove snares later, or they might make some things undispellable, but cant be sure about that.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-08-22 at 06:08 PM.

  7. #207
    Deleted
    never said that I belong to the 95%. Never stated stat I´m better than him. Nothing noteworthy you might be right about but from time to I do try to be constructive. I do take a bit of offence for your claim that I just parrot everyones negativity. I was and still am sufficiently negative on my own. Thank you very much.

    He is very much welcome to have his own opinion. But when he claims we will be buffed then he should at least provide something that at least hints that there will be something along that line.

    It just rills me when people come along and state "It will be fine." "Ashbringer will fix it." "Blizzard wouldn´t dare to let us hang in there again." while there is crushing evidence against it. the first is the mantra since early alpha and has yet to be remotely true. The second was invalidated by a Blizzard employee in a recent interview. And finally the third ... just look at blizzards history and the other promises they made "There wont be any content drought". How often did they failed to deliver this? Do you expect that they will keep a promise to a fraction of the playerbase while they can´t even deliver on promises to the entire playerbase?

  8. #208
    Serious, no joking...

    Ret are or are not good on legion?

  9. #209
    Hey Knusper, tone it down a bit really, would you please kindly?)
    Even I am not such a raging bag of furious, salty erected manhoods

  10. #210
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    I think you mixed up buff and nerf. Ret dosen´t get buffed on short term base, the only thing you can expect short term for ret is nerfs. IF we get buffed it will be after any kind of meaningful progression and then it will only happen due to the lack of scaling and not because they "feel" we are to weak.
    Listen and listen well when 95% of the senior rets in this and all other forums predict a dark outlook. Then they do so based on statements from devs, test experience and a fuck load of experience. So please shut it.
    please using such elitist writing has diminished any valid points you may have made. bottom line is you are among the herd of sheep who are constantly fear mongering about ret paladins so anyone new to the spec will instantly shy away. if it is a playstyle they enjoy, then that is absolutely fine. ret will have a place in raids like it has for the majority of past expansions. if you do not like it that is fine but please dont say the 95% of senior rets? lol come on that is such a weird way to speak.

    stop fearmongering.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by CptKnusper View Post
    never said that I belong to the 95%. Never stated stat I´m better than him. Nothing noteworthy you might be right about but from time to I do try to be constructive. I do take a bit of offence for your claim that I just parrot everyones negativity. I was and still am sufficiently negative on my own. Thank you very much.

    He is very much welcome to have his own opinion. But when he claims we will be buffed then he should at least provide something that at least hints that there will be something along that line.

    It just rills me when people come along and state "It will be fine." "Ashbringer will fix it." "Blizzard wouldn´t dare to let us hang in there again." while there is crushing evidence against it. the first is the mantra since early alpha and has yet to be remotely true. The second was invalidated by a Blizzard employee in a recent interview. And finally the third ... just look at blizzards history and the other promises they made "There wont be any content drought". How often did they failed to deliver this? Do you expect that they will keep a promise to a fraction of the playerbase while they can´t even deliver on promises to the entire playerbase?
    As I said, not trying to flame you. Dont take offence to anything, Its not like I really offer anything noteworthy either. There isnt really much to add at this point, everything has already been said.

    Its a gamble really. Being buffed or staying the way we are, cant really predict whats going to happen. Shit bro, Im a senior paladin, Ive been holy since I started this game, but that doesnt mean I know exactly whats going to happen. Nobody does.

    If he wants to think we might get buffed, hes allowed to think so. We definitely could be, they usually fix shit during the first raid tier, so it would be during EM. Throughout the past, thats what they have done to under performing classes, but then again its blizzard, so we dont really know whats going to happen. Based on the past and that alone, we will eventually get buffed along with any other class thats underperforming. Thats usually what happens each expansion. If you dont like the way ret plays in general though, thats a whole different issue and most likely wont be fixed until the next expansion.

    I get where youre coming from, I dont really enjoy seeing *its only alpha!* or *chill, artifacts will fix it* either, but if someone feels that way they are definitely allowed to have that opinion. Its not like he was really even saying that, he was just saying that he believes we may get buffed eventually. Either way, I get what youre saying.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-08-22 at 06:58 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    please using such elitist writing has diminished any valid points you may have made. bottom line is you are among the herd of sheep who are constantly fear mongering about ret paladins so anyone new to the spec will instantly shy away. if it is a playstyle they enjoy, then that is absolutely fine. ret will have a place in raids like it has for the majority of past expansions. if you do not like it that is fine but please dont say the 95% of senior rets? lol come on that is such a weird way to speak.

    stop fearmongering.
    sheep? herd?
    We are providing arguments and facts to back our claims yet you dare call US sheep?
    Isn't it somewhat irresponsible and childish of you?
    Could you please stop with it or feth yourself kindly?

  13. #213
    Epic! marinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    Serious, no joking...

    Ret are or are not good on legion?
    Not good. We have 0 utility (GBoM is garbage) and both our ST and AoE dmg is lower from all other melee specs. There are some rumors going around about a tuning patch coming soon but they are just rumors and even if they prove to be true I don't think we will see major changes in our favor.
    Do you have a chance to do mythic raiding as ret? Yes but your dmg will be lower from the rest of your raid, assuming equal skill and your spot in the end might be at risk.
    For PvP, can't really say but from what I have seen you will perform better as Prot.

  14. #214
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoTorres View Post
    Serious, no joking...

    Ret are or are not good on legion?
    depends on what you are looking for and where you currently stand with your guild. Are you looking for server firsts? then I would recommend looking for another class. Do you raid in a 2 evening guild satisfied with eventually clearing the content? If you are already in that guild and the raidlead already knows you are good at your job you will be able to get by as a ret. If you are looking for a new raid you will have a harder time with ret compared to another class since raidleads will look at the guilds higher up for setup guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    Hey Knusper, tone it down a bit really, would you please kindly?)
    Even I am not such a raging bag of furious, salty erected manhoods
    will try

  15. #215
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    sheep? herd?
    We are providing arguments and facts to back our claims yet you dare call US sheep?
    Isn't it somewhat irresponsible and childish of you?
    Could you please stop with it or feth yourself kindly?
    Ret is fine when played by competent players. not much else to say lelz.

    too much salt is bad for you.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    Ret is fine when played by competent players. not much else to say lelz.
    define "fine".
    casul LFR dragonslaying? It matter a lot.
    Just as random BG heroing does.

    There must be a reason why you don't see Rets doing WFirsts or progress raiding.
    Just as there must be a reason you don't see Rets taken for Tournaments or Rated BGs.

    It's not rocket science to figure out actually.
    Even you might give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    too much salt is bad for you.
    I'm quite content with my salt levels.
    This is my normal.
    Thanks for caring.

  17. #217
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    define "fine".
    casul LFR dragonslaying? It matter a lot.
    Just as random BG heroing does.

    There must be a reason why you don't see Rets doing WFirsts or progress raiding.
    Just as there must be a reason you don't see Rets taken for Tournaments or Rated BGs.

    It's not rocket science to figure out actually.
    Even you might give it a try.


    I'm quite content with my salt levels.
    This is my normal.
    Thanks for caring.
    ret is great to play in its current state.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    ret is great to play in its current state.
    that's a very constructive and deeply argumented opinion.

  19. #219
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    that's a very constructive and deeply argumented opinion.
    thank you.

  20. #220
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    Ret is fine when played by competent players. not much else to say lelz.

    too much salt is bad for you.
    salt is what keeps your brain working. just saying. competence can be through the roof but if the framework that competence has to work with is underdeveloped you will shine against everyone working with the same framework but you will still fall behind mostly everyone.

    To use a different analogy, imagine you are Usain Bolt and you take part in the 100 meter finals. You start with everyone else on the same line allowing you to shine. Now imagine you have to start 20 meters behind everyone else. Do you still win or dominate the race? No you don´t you come in 4th or 5th place.

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