Karazhan and the Timeline(s).

[Kralljin]

Ever since BC i have wondered what the Burning Legion wanted in Karazhan, while an actual was never given during Burning Crusade, Patch 7.1 will most likely give an answer.

Speculations ahead.

Prince Malchezaars presence atop Karazhan has been a mystery, his quote mentioning all dimensions rather cryptic...by the time.

All realities, all dimensions are open to me!

Since WoD we know, that the Burning Legion works outside of reality, that there is just one Legion, giving the speculation that the Netherspace was actually in the Twisting Nether some substance, especially if you take into account that Prince Malchezaar is one of the few famous demons that have yet to be seen in Legion.

Now here are the interesting part(s).

Archmage Alturus makes quite a comment on Karazhan, in hindsight.

Archmage Alvareaux once wrote a treatise exploring a fascinating theory. He proposed the existence of an exact copy of Karazhan in a world other than our own and that both somehow shared the same space.

He went mad soon after. A real pity.

During BC anyone would have put this comment aside for some random trivia, but with the knowledge from WoD and the Legions interest in Karazhan, this comment actually gives a lot to speculate.

About the exact meaning you could probably debate, but it most likely means that Karazhan works outside of time, similiar to the Legion.

This would obviously bring Medivh into question, but Medivh doesn't seem to really work like anyone else in matters of time.

During the Karazhan pre quest, you had to bring your Karazhan Key to Medivh in the Black Morass to receive his enchantment and thereby grant entry into Karazhan.

Instead of enchanting yours, he simply gives you his own, while this not really special, this dialogue from the quest pretty much basically says that Medivh knows what he will do and what will happen.

That key, I recognize it. That is Khadgar's key... of course I haven't given it to him yet.

I seem to have memories about future events surrounding you and this key.

<Medivh looks at you like he's just seen a ghost.>

You have trying times ahead of you, <name>. Let us hope your strength does not fail you.

Regarding the key, I am to hand it to Khadgar when he's sent to me. I couldn't hope for a better apprentice.

I suppose you will need a key of your own.

<Medivh reaches into his robe and hands you his own key.>

Now the final interesting thing about this is Khadgars comment on you presenting Medivh's key.

His own key? That's incredible!

I do not sense any disturbances in our timeline, so I suppose it was meant to occur all along.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Return_to_Khadgar

This was apparently bound to happen all along, bringing Khadgars key to Medivh in the past, nor taking his key with you to the future caused any disturbances in the Timeline, further hinting that, at the very least, that the rules of time do not apply to Medivh as they do to us.


Finally, during the Karazhan quest currently on Live, an Echo of Medivh also makes one comment that might be interesting on this subject:

Echo of Medivh yells: That which was foreseen has come to pass. The circle nears completion. Sentries, attend to our "guests"!

And to move that answer out of the way as well, the "Master" Moroes spoke of in the Karazhan trailer seems to be Medivh:

Thar'zul yells: You can't stop us, mage! Your former master opened the way to our victory! Karazhan will be ours!

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Hiding_in_the_Stacks

[Aucald]

My personal theory, borne out in a few places, is that Karazhan is a special place not just on Azeroth but perhaps special even in comparison to the wider Warcraft universe itself. Karazhan serves as an aperture into the multiverse granting access to other timelines and/or dimensions - a unique tool that the Legion would most certainly wish to control as it would serve as a staging point that would substantially increase their abilities to traverse all of time and dimensional space.

[Aquamonkey]

What if it's Azeroth's antenna and all titans have them.

[Shortsy]

Very interesting. This has a lot of clout.
I also wonder who the "Great One" Thar'Zul mentions is.

I would imagine that would be Sargaras, since Khadgar makes a comment on him shortly after Thar'zul says that.

[Leih]

Do you think Draenor's Grom will appear to help us with the last boss and somehow lose Gorehowl to Melchazaar?

[Aucald]

Do you think Draenor's Grom will appear to help us with the last boss and somehow lose Gorehowl to Melchazaar?

I think it's doubtful, but I would love an in-game explanation as to why Prince Malchezaar had a copy of it in the first place.

[denzildk]

bit off topic but does anyone know how karazhan was built, i remember reading that medivh told khadgar that he needed it and the it appeard... i always thought of that as it will be build in the furute and then sent back in time for when he needed it, or maby time is moving backwards in the tower somehow (that could explain the gorehowl being there...somehow)
anyone who know's something about this? or is there a book written about karazhan i could read?

[Deleted]

My personal theory, borne out in a few places, is that Karazhan is a special place not just on Azeroth but perhaps special even in comparison to the wider Warcraft universe itself. Karazhan serves as an aperture into the multiverse granting access to other timelines and/or dimensions - a unique tool that the Legion would most certainly wish to control as it would serve as a staging point that would substantially increase their abilities to traverse all of time and dimensional space.

Can't the Legion access other timelines anyway, though? Since they're supposed to transcend all realities etc.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Legion already reached out to Gul'dan by the time Garrosh opened the pathway?

[Aucald]

bit off topic but does anyone know how karazhan was built, i remember reading that medivh told khadgar that he needed it and the it appeard... i always thought of that as it will be build in the furute and then sent back in time for when he needed it, or maby time is moving backwards in the tower somehow (that could explain the gorehowl being there...somehow)
anyone who know's something about this? or is there a book written about karazhan i could read?

According to Chronicle, Aegywnn built Karazhan in Deadwind Pass (which in the past had been subject to a magical explosion of some kind that had already destabilized reality in the area and perhaps exposed the Ley line network at its foundation) as a place to hide from the Council of Tirisfal. It's assumed that her semi-possession by Sargeras may be the reason why Karazhan is as strange as it is, and he may be the reason why it functions in the way it does. With the revelation of Satiel being the first Necromancer and stationed in Deadwind Pass, it may be possible Sargeras was also responsible for the creation of the mystical nexus in the area on which Karazhan was later built.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't the Legion access other timelines anyway, though? Since they're supposed to transcend all realities etc.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Legion already reached out to Gul'dan by the time Garrosh opened the pathway?

They seem to be able to, yes. Karazhan may ease that somewhat by allowing instant transfer, or there may be another reason why they're so interested in possessing it. As for Gul'dan I'm unsure of the timeline as to his contact with the Legion in the AU version of Draenor. The method of time travel and the functioning of the alternative echo-universes aren't clear as to whether Gul'dan's contact with the Legion is functionally concurrent with his Prime universe self (e.g. both versions of Gul'dan communing with the Legion simultaneously from the Legion's perspective) or if it was a completely different set of occurrences.

[Aquamonkey]

All the ley lines of Azeroth led to Karazhan before Malygos redirected them.

[Deleted]

he method of time travel and the functioning of the alternative echo-universes aren't clear as to whether Gul'dan's contact with the Legion is functionally concurrent with his Prime universe self (e.g. both versions of Gul'dan communing with the Legion simultaneously from the Legion's perspective) or if it was a completely different set of occurrences.

After watching the Gul'dan harbingers video I always suspected it was something like this: Assuming MU Gul'dan had very similar origins, he would have gone to the throne of the elements and actually been accepted by the elements. After that he went and became a shaman, and joined the Shadowmoon Clan at some point. That way the Harbingers video wouldn't contradict MU Gul'dan's story too much actually.

Since the Legion had knowledge of Gul'dan's thirst for power and resourcefulness as opposed to Ner'zhul, they decided to take a shortcut and contact AU Gul'dan directly and skip all that trouble concerning Ner'zhul.

Thus, they already sought Gul'dan out at the throne of the elements, scaring the elements away and recruiting him way earlier than they did with MU Gul'dan.

That's how I interpreted Harbingers though.

To clarify, as I see it, the Legion experiences the whole WoD thing as we do, e.g. MU stuff happened first and now they concentrate on AU Draenor.

[cocoapuffs]

the Gul'dan short made it seem like Gul'dan was in touch and powered by the Legion after he was exiled from his home

[Aucald]

After watching the Gul'dan harbingers video I always suspected it was something like this: Assuming MU Gul'dan had very similar origins, he would have gone to the throne of the elements and actually been accepted by the elements. After that he went and became a shaman, and joined the Shadowmoon Clan at some point. That way the Harbingers video wouldn't contradict MU Gul'dan's story too much actually.

That's interesting, as the "Harbingers" video for Gul'dan actually made me think that in the AU version of Draenor Gul'dan wasn't of the Shadowmoon Clan and never really knew Ner'zhul or served under him as a Shaman. He was instead part of a now-defunct clan, and was cast out for his physical weakness (and his winning personality) and events happened as they did. It's not too different a story, but it does return some mystery to the character of Gul'dan - why or how Kil'jaeden seduced him directly on Draenor, as opposed to the events of "Rise of the Horde."

[Deleted]

Honestly, I think that the explanation is a simple one. The fact that Karazhan is built upon the strong connection of the leylines, it creates a dimensional rift that reaches the Nether (as we seen on the top floors of the tower).

In other words, Karazhan exists in Azeroth and in the Nether.

[Deleted]

Medivh is in warcraft lore but he has never been in the game?

why is he not alive and inside karazhan, instead we get random no explanation undead.

[Gaucho-]

Aegwyn built Karazhan on very potent lay lines, there's no special mystery mentioned in Chronicle atleast.

[Twistedelmo]

All the ley lines of Azeroth led to Karazhan before Malygos redirected them.

was that not the reason for netherspite and nightbane(cant remember his original name.) for being in kara?

Edit: Nightbane was Arcanagos before being turned undead

[Gaucho-]

Medivh is in warcraft lore but he has never been in the game?

why is he not alive and inside karazhan, instead we get random no explanation undead.

With "random undead" you mean Moroes? I suggest you reading the books or wowpedia before you make comments like this.

- - - Updated - - -

was that not the reason for netherspite and nightbane(cant remember his original name.) for being in kara?

Didnt read other books about Karazhan except the part in Chronicle.

[Deleted]

Medivh is in warcraft lore but he has never been in the game?

why is he not alive and inside karazhan, instead we get random no explanation undead.

Go away, lore troll.

[Deleted]

With "random undead" you mean Moroes? I suggest you reading the books or wowpedia before you make comments like this.

- - - Updated - - -


e.

don't be rude or will report you.