Fury Legion Discussion

[Bahm]

Didn't watcher say this on either Fatboss or Sloots stream during gamescon that the gap between melee and ranged should be smaller this expac, and he did also say we as a community should get of our high horse and stop saying something is 1% better and then claim it is the only viable option and everything else is garbage.

Obligatory caveat: Yes I know half of what he says should be taken with enough salt to cover Belgium but he does have a point.

He does have a point but it doesn't really apply to WoW. We've been promised better balancing before and both Watcher and the player-base know we aren't talking about 1% differences when it comes to not bringing classes.

[Deleted]

He does have a point but it doesn't really apply to WoW. We've been promised better balancing before and both Watcher and the player-base know we aren't talking about 1% differences when it comes to not bringing classes.

yes, if it would be 1% only then you would definitely see windwalkers or ferals aside from stuff like council or velhari or even maidens on progression guilds frequently, but you dont, cause they are significantly lower in dps AND their raidutility is lackluster. people only bring them if they do a lot more damage than the other classes else, they are not brought.

[Jngizu]

enhancement speed totem is kinda irrelevant as it is only a cooldown to get out of mechanics, not dodge/prevent mechanics entirely like all the others. so its not top notch.
stormlash is kinda ok'ish. ret blessings are ok'ish too like stormlash. darkness is insane, if you dodge a hit its 100% no damage thats pretty strong, especially if you put it under your tanks.
I would accept ret and even dk but only for soaking loot for dds but nothing else.
im talking about an ideal raid scenario.

I mean, Darkness can be great as it can be completely useless. Don't get me wrong I love DH and wish I will be able to main it (seems unlikely though). Their mobility as it stands is also pretty horrendous because of Fel Mastery.

The speed totem is as useful as Roar is/was, so I'd say it's pretty nice. As for Stormlash I think you undervalue it. Ret's blessing are also stronger than you think. Now, clearly if all you need out of you melee DPS is to do damage, you will only bring Rogues. And if we follow your reasoning, distance should only be Mages. But I guarantee you that Serenity is not going to run 10 mages and 4 rogues for EN, so the utility from other classes is definitely useful.

At the moment though, the only 3 melee specs I would bring if I had to choose would be Rogues, UH DK and War. DH don't deal enough damage and their utility is too situational as well as being RNG. Enh and Ret bring great utility but it might not be needed. Commanding shout on the other hand, is one of the best raid CD's so you will always want to have one. Rogues and DK for their insane damage and utility/survivability.

[Deleted]

I mean, Darkness can be great as it can be completely useless. Don't get me wrong I love DH and wish I will be able to main it (seems unlikely though). Their mobility as it stands is also pretty horrendous because of Fel Mastery.

The speed totem is as useful as Roar is/was, so I'd say it's pretty nice. As for Stormlash I think you undervalue it. Ret's blessing are also stronger than you think. Now, clearly if all you need out of you melee DPS is to do damage, you will only bring Rogues. And if we follow your reasoning, distance should only be Mages. But I guarantee you that Serenity is not going to run 10 mages and 4 rogues for EN, so the utility from other classes is definitely useful.

At the moment though, the only 3 melee specs I would bring if I had to choose would be Rogues, UH DK and War. DH don't deal enough damage and their utility is too situational as well as being RNG. Enh and Ret bring great utility but it might not be needed. Commanding shout on the other hand, is one of the best raid CD's so you will always want to have one. Rogues and DK for their insane damage and utility/survivability.

and you overvalue shaman totems 10x. I gave you the reason why speed boost is only 2nd choice.
you overvalue blessings, its 3% damage each player that has a blessing approx, and we dont have arcane mages-like damage dealers in legion that are super far ahead of the others that they would gain significantly more out of their blessing than others.
you didnt even understand why you would bring rogues, not for their damage dude wtf.
if we follow my reasoning you bring, 2x rogue 1x dh 1x war for 4 melee spots, and for 5 you bring 1 more of x that can be anything, but its rather a second warrior or a dk/ret, than some other melee. (cause armor)
DH surivivability > everything else but rogues because netherwalk is a 5 second immunity, perfect for some soaking job.
I never said dont bring anything else than rogues, I am just crafting some really good raid setup, and that doesnt need shamans beside healing ones or windwalkers or any crap of that kind.

[Deleted]

Hello, is there any movies from beta with fury warrior on mythic + or so ?? was looking on YT but cant find any interesting materials.
Thinking to main fury, but first wanted to see some legion action with him.

[GT4]

When talking about Enh and Ret I think a lot of people are missing that Stormlash and GBoM are direct damage increases that Blizzard will take into account when balancing their DPS. When Blizzard is done balancing (or if they don't change anything from the current state), Enh and Ret are pretty average after taking into account Stormlash/GBoM. If an outlaw rogue is already doing more DPS than either when including their buffs (as currently seems to be the case), there's no reason to bring them either.

Going by current numbers, if I was to make an "ideal raid comp" at 110, I'd probably go with Rogue > Warr >= DK >= DH > Rest when it comes to melees.

Having said that, I'd expect some things to change as they seem very extreme (e.g. outlaw boots, outlaw run through artifact trait, arms FR/DC/AM synergy, execute ring, arms gloves all seem significantly over budget).

[Nefarious Tea]

Yeah Blizzard never ever nerfed a spec into the ground for an entire expac, ever.

Not that they're Warriors, but Frost DK's are going on three expansions of being virtually garbage now :P

[Deleted]

Is there a sim to know at what % uptime klling machine is better than endless rage?

[Jngizu]

and you overvalue shaman totems 10x. I gave you the reason why speed boost is only 2nd choice.
you overvalue blessings, its 3% damage each player that has a blessing approx, and we dont have arcane mages-like damage dealers in legion that are super far ahead of the others that they would gain significantly more out of their blessing than others.
you didnt even understand why you would bring rogues, not for their damage dude wtf.
if we follow my reasoning you bring, 2x rogue 1x dh 1x war for 4 melee spots, and for 5 you bring 1 more of x that can be anything, but its rather a second warrior or a dk/ret, than some other melee. (cause armor)
DH surivivability > everything else but rogues because netherwalk is a 5 second immunity, perfect for some soaking job.
I never said dont bring anything else than rogues, I am just crafting some really good raid setup, and that doesnt need shamans beside healing ones or windwalkers or any crap of that kind.

I think you completely misunderstood me. Of course you don't only bring Rogues for their damage, which is why I added utility/survivability. For the best 4 melee setup, you don't bring a DH but an Unholy DK, they are superior in pretty much every aspect at the moment.

I also mention that Ret and Enh's utility might not be needed at all. Clearly, in a 4 melee setup, I would bring neither. But I sure as hell wouldn't bring a DH either.
The best 4 melee setup would be 2 Rogues, 1 Warrior, 1 Unholy DK. 5 setup is a bit more up in the air. It will depend on what you need for the kill. I don't see a world where you bring 2 warriors unless you really need 2 shouts though.

[Deleted]

I think you completely misunderstood me. Of course you don't only bring Rogues for their damage, which is why I added utility/survivability. For the best 4 melee setup, you don't bring a DH but an Unholy DK, they are superior in pretty much every aspect at the moment.

I also mention that Ret and Enh's utility might not be needed at all. Clearly, in a 4 melee setup, I would bring neither. But I sure as hell wouldn't bring a DH either.
The best 4 melee setup would be 2 Rogues, 1 Warrior, 1 Unholy DK. 5 setup is a bit more up in the air. It will depend on what you need for the kill. I don't see a world where you bring 2 warriors unless you really need 2 shouts though.

tell me why dk is superior over dh beside armor class. because of his 1 target deathgrip?lol or because of his movement? dont make me laugh

[Jngizu]

Well, you clearly haven't played the beta or watched logs if you don't even know that. No point really to keep this discussion going. Unholy is better in every aspect. They are better at ST, MT, sustained AoE, and I'd even argue their surivability might be better. The only aspect where DH might be better at, is AoE burst and even then it's debatable. Yeah, Unholy has shitty mobility but in its current state so does DH because of Fel Mastery.

[infinitemeridian]

Just be thankful you're not Windwalkers, who only bring a pitiful 10% speed boost, made irrelevant by druids and shamans (who bring other things as well).

I've yet to see one guild even attempting to venture into mythic looking for a windwalker. I guess if you had the legendary that increases Windwalking to 25% that would be great, but that's a corner case.

[Creatinebrah]

Just be thankful you're not Windwalkers, who only bring a pitiful 10% speed boost, made irrelevant by druids and shamans (who bring other things as well).

I've yet to see one guild even attempting to venture into mythic looking for a windwalker. I guess if you had the legendary that increases Windwalking to 25% that would be great, but that's a corner case.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post41952951

"So you're saying that movement speed isn't useful in practice for melee and tanks only in theory? The buff lasts for 10s after leaving the 10y range, so its not quite the same as just 10y range.

A fight like Xhul is a great example where you have to avoid void zones, run out to drop fire and avoid the fire constantly throughout the fight, not just at set intervals where a cooldown like Roar would benefit. The 10s buff of the movement speed would allow you get out of fire and void zones, or out to drop fire and back into the fight 10-25% faster, thats a pretty big deal."

[Anbokr]

One week out from launch and we get a PvP stat template update... no fury changes :/. Looks like I'm going Arms. Sometimes it feels like Blizzard doesn't test their own game and just peruses the forums to see what to buff/nerf, and every PvP warrior is just going to be content rolling Arms so Fury just gets ignored in the PvP realm. Damn shame, Fury was pretty solid in PvP in WoD (and loads of fun).

The honor talents are also very interesting for Fury but the spec just isn't worth playing in PvP with gimped self-healing, 30% damage amp, and lack of mortal strike. It's too much. Makes me sad man.

[Deleted]

Fury's Enrage is great damage but high risk.
If it has to be choice, please change Furious Slash with Heroic Strike, and make the attack prevent enrage for 6s so Fury can actually use more abilities then Whirlwind and Raging Blow.

[Eninya]

Question about the rotation:
Is there any situation where delaying Raging Blow for Enrage is worth it? (About to have enough rage for Rampage, or another cast of Bloodthirst.)

Is using Furious Slash over Rampage while Enraged, to stack the Bloodthirst crit chance buff up, worth it over just immediately using Rampage?

I've been playing with the rotation to extend Enrage uptime as much as I can and minimize droughts, but this means delaying Rampage uses, and sometimes even Raging Blow by 1 GCD (at most).

[Archimtiros]

Question about the rotation:
Is there any situation where delaying Raging Blow for Enrage is worth it? (About to have enough rage for Rampage, or another cast of Bloodthirst.)

Is using Furious Slash over Rampage while Enraged, to stack the Bloodthirst crit chance buff up, worth it over just immediately using Rampage?

I've been playing with the rotation to extend Enrage uptime as much as I can and minimize droughts, but this means delaying Rampage uses, and sometimes even Raging Blow by 1 GCD (at most).

Not if you're following the priority.

Yes, until Legion and the priorities change.

Delaying Raging Blow should be rare, only when it and BT happen to be off cooldown at the same time, or Rampage is available, and you're not enraged. In that case, delaying it is the right thing to do.

[Eninya]

Not if you're following the priority.

Yes, until Legion and the priorities change.

Delaying Raging Blow should be rare, only when it and BT happen to be off cooldown at the same time, or Rampage is available, and you're not enraged. In that case, delaying it is the right thing to do.

Alright. Thank you, Archimtiros.

[mistahwilshire]

What do good Fury players get for typical enrage uptime? I've been averaging around 65-70%. Obviously fight length has an impact here but is 70ish% what I should be aiming for?

[Archimtiros]

What do good Fury players get for typical enrage uptime? I've been averaging around 65-70%. Obviously fight length has an impact here but is 70ish% what I should be aiming for?

Broad question which depends on your gear, level, and fight mechanics.

In single target fights, during pre-patch most mythic geared players are ~80-85%, while in Legion raid entry leveled players will see closer to ~50%.