No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Mafic]

have fun doing the achives for flying, positive

Well for me that is hard to do.

No fly, no buy.

For others, yes it will be a long hard grind and I send my condolences to them if they bought into the compromise trap that Blizzard has set up.

[SirBeef]

If only you recognised the irony of your post.

Imagine if Blizzard did the very thing you're suggesting: Balanced flying and ground, instead of shoving it down everyone's throat. Or do you honestly not sew that's it's exactly what they're doing, even with pathfinder?

Blizzard described flying as a luxury. As a luxury it is not required. Difference between wants and needs are mixed up in this conversation. Not meaning you in particular.

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Well for me that is hard to do.

No fly, no buy.

For others, yes it will be a long hard grind and I send my condolences to them if they bought into the compromise trap that Blizzard has set up.

It won't really be that long, and certainly not hard. If they are going to allow flying I'd rather we have to earn it.

[Connll]

Blizzard described flying as a luxury. As a luxury it is not required. Difference between wants and needs are mixed up in this conversation. Not meaning you in particular.

The irony of criticizing features for being a "luxury" and thus, not needed... in a video game... is sharp.

[Mafic]

Blizzard described flying as a luxury. As a luxury it is not required. Difference between wants and needs are mixed up in this conversation. Not meaning you in particular.

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It won't really be that long, and certainly not hard. If they are going to allow flying I'd rather we have to earn it.

Based on what we know of only Legion patchfinder part 1, yes it will be long. Don't forget the other "unknown parts"

[Hexxidecimal]

Beehive was already poked tard otherwise I wouldn't have found it. Try taking your own advice.

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u pissed breh y ur eyes red cuz u been cryin

Man this just keeps getting better.

[Mafic]

The irony of criticizing features for being a "luxury" and thus, not needed... in a video game... is sharp.

If flying is such a luxury then why introduce a gimmick like the whistle for Legion? Blizzard has tried using gimmicks to fill the void of no flying in WoD and Legion and have failed and will continue to fail.

Flying is needed with the way the game is designed, the terrain design, and the archaic flight paths.'

Instead of fixing flight paths they choose to resort to gimmicks.

[Connll]

If flying is such a luxury then why introduce a gimmick like the whistle for Legion? Blizzard has tried using gimmicks to fill the void of no flying in WoD and Legion and have failed and will continue to fail.

Flying is needed with the way the game is designed, the terrain design, and the archaic flight paths.'

Instead of fixing flight paths they choose to resort to gimmicks.

As I said, to me its incomprehensible that the current dev team hasn´t been disciplined at the very least.

[clevin]

Look, the whole "flying is bad" stuff is irrelevant. The game had flying for almost 8 years and was fine. To me, that's the ultimate argument against all of those assertions. The game added millions of subs after flight was introduced. It stayed at that level or close to it for years. The removal of flight didn't bring millions back and keep them... if anything the opposite.

All of the anti flight arguments have been roundly debunked from immersion (feel free to ride on the ground, you don't get to tell me how to play) to trivializing questing and more.

Sadly, Blizzard hasn't yet delivered any awesome open world content that could only be done without flight. Perhaps they will in Legion. But I already think they're showing that they're talking the lazy way out with the Legion version of Pathfinder. Rather than develop a cool, long quest line that takes us through 7.0 and is based on us losing flight for some in game reason ("too much fel energy" or something) and then questing to counter that reason, it sounds like they're doing the whole "rep up" crap. Why would faction rep restore flight? I mean, talk about a missed opportunity...


However, they're not going to give us flight. They won't even tell us when we can complete pathfinder and if you believe that means we get it soon, there's a bridge here with your name on it.

[rebecca191]

We are not birds (except Druids). We should not be airborne any time we don't have a roof above us. Why is this hard to get? Flying is OP. You want everyone to accept it then you should be talking about ways to balance it not shove it down everyone's throat.

I made friends with dragons. It makes absolutely no sense that my dragon friends can't fly me around.

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Well for me that is hard to do.

No fly, no buy.

For others, yes it will be a long hard grind and I send my condolences to them if they bought into the compromise trap that Blizzard has set up.

The current stuff won't be *that* bad if you wait until flying is implemented or about to be implemented since better gear will be more easily accessible. Currently the only really time consuming part is Suramar since it takes a long time to unlock the entire story and there are aggroing mobs everywhere with big HP pools that can be annoying if they daze you since then you are forced to kill them. 100 unique world quests will be boring (since a lot of them involve killing the same mobs you killed doing the Loremaster achievement for the other zones) but there are tons on the map each day so it won't take *that* long. Suramar loremaster will be the worst part for sure. I think you even need to do an LFR raid to finish it unless they changed that...

Of course, the next part could be even worse, we just won't know yet!

[Dormie]

I made friends with dragons. It makes absolutely no sense that my dragon friends can't fly me around.

Yes, it does.

[rebecca191]

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't, no matter how hard you try. They flew me around for 8 years and suddenly can't? And you actually defend this as increasing immersion? ROFL.

[Oaky]

Personally, being grounded for the first part of an expansion does make me appreciate the new lands a bit more. It also brings back the sense of exploration, which was really why WoW captivated me to begin with. Fast forward 12 years and you get really complacent about parts of the game and flying just feels much better than the old slow mode of transport, the ground mount. Flying and the free teleports really detracts from the scale of the game, but it also makes it so you don't need to take that old beaten path for the 1000th time to get to where you've been 1000 times already.

No flying at the first part of a new expansion is perfectly fine, but the feature is inevitable at this point.

[SirCowdog]

Look, the whole "flying is bad" stuff is irrelevant. The game had flying for almost 8 years and was fine. To me, that's the ultimate argument against all of those assertions. The game added millions of subs after flight was introduced. It stayed at that level or close to it for years. The removal of flight didn't bring millions back and keep them... if anything the opposite.

All of the anti flight arguments have been roundly debunked from immersion (feel free to ride on the ground, you don't get to tell me how to play) to trivializing questing and more.

Sadly, Blizzard hasn't yet delivered any awesome open world content that could only be done without flight. Perhaps they will in Legion. But I already think they're showing that they're talking the lazy way out with the Legion version of Pathfinder. Rather than develop a cool, long quest line that takes us through 7.0 and is based on us losing flight for some in game reason ("too much fel energy" or something) and then questing to counter that reason, it sounds like they're doing the whole "rep up" crap. Why would faction rep restore flight? I mean, talk about a missed opportunity...


However, they're not going to give us flight. They won't even tell us when we can complete pathfinder and if you believe that means we get it soon, there's a bridge here with your name on it.

We'll said!

I'll only add that I understand the logic behind why they went for no-flying. It allows them to create a certain type of content which flying tends to break. Some of that grounded content is actually very good! But the mistake is in trying to apply the same type of content design to every aspect of the open world, especially when players have had so long to grow accustomed to having access to flying for so long.

[Dormie]

I think something like having to go to a flight master or some kind of stable before mounting up would be a thought in trying to balance flying.

[clevin]

I think something like having to go to a flight master or some kind of stable before mounting up would be a thought in trying to balance flying.

No. Stop this "well we could bring back flying but cripple it somehow" stuff. AGAIN, the game grew and was fine for years with flight around. I don't mind them delaying it a little (to the .1 patch) and I actually would prefer having an in-game reason to have flight not work and then have a long quest chain to get it working again... but when it's working, it should just work.

[MasterHamster]

Let me guess? You don't play on a PVP server.

Haha
Been playing main(s) on PvP servers since Jan 2006, Outland since BC. If people didn't try to bake no flight/flying into every single aspect of WoW, maybe you could see the dynamics of WPvP. Maybe the idea is "players not limited, flying = players out in zones = WPvP", World PvP is completely dead in Draenor despite flight being added again... could it be because players still have no real reason to be out in the zones unless they're on a new 100 clearing treasures for a couple of hours. Issues with WoDs world content design I've talked about many times. Invasions gave a ton of players, through transmog, pet, armor/weapon up to 720/725, reasons to be active in invasions. And surprise, WPvP happens as players are bunched up.

Maybe that's the thing in this topic? To players that refuse to see the reasons flight is removed/staggered in the beginning and actually require some effort to unlock, is because WoD, the apathy expansion, sadly got to set the standard. So an awful expansion with almost no non-raid content worth doing (no rewards) = no flight

Hell there are people that want to claim WoW lost 5 million subs because of no flight. What a joke.

... Devs that are hellbent to make another raid or die expansion.

The expansion where you can gear up to Mythic level gear without setting foot in a raid is a raid or die expansion?

I am not burned out about the topic...you are projecting because it seems you are burned out about the topic. I have been discussing this topic since WoD was in alpha.

I suppose I don't find it interesting to post thousands of times in one dull topic for two years
This topic is already dead and is on constant life-support. It had some influence in pre-release and on release when people just assumed flight would be handled like before, it took players by surprise. Blizzards vagueness in the topic further throwing shit on the fan. Now players have gone through pathfinder once, in Legion no one is really going to be surprised. Legions design seems many, many times better fitted for an expansion where flying is gone for a while... because players will actually have things to do for more than 2 weeks. And players that have things to do aren't going to spend the majority of their time bitching about flight being gone for a couple of major patches.

Flight is and remains a mid-to-late expansion luxury

[Mafic]

Haha
Been playing main(s) on PvP servers since Jan 2006, Outland since BC. If people didn't try to bake no flight/flying into every single aspect of WoW, maybe you could see the dynamics of WPvP.

I didn't realize I would have to explain it to you slowly but I guess some players really have a hard time comprehending the greater picture of how game systems are interlinked:

Flight makes world PVP far more better (eg Legion invasions) and it is conducive to more world PVP because you are able to go to PVP flare ups. Also, I do not know of a good world PVP player that wants Blizzard to ground other players indefinitely or for long periods of time. The only players that want to ground other players are bad world PVP players that whine about players escaping them and refuse to understand and learn how PVP mechanics work. Or how to improve themselves for world PVP, so instead they blame flying for their faults and also not recognizing that instanced PVP has dominated WoW for almost a decade now.

Maybe the idea is "players not limited, flying = players out in zones = WPvP", World PvP is completely dead in Draenor despite flight being added again... could it be because players still have no real reason to be out in the zones unless they're on a new 100 clearing treasures for a couple of hours. Issues with WoDs world content design I've talked about many times. Invasions gave a ton of players, through transmog, pet, armor/weapon up to 720/725, reasons to be active in invasions. And surprise, WPvP happens as players are bunched up.

World PVP may be dead on your server, but it is not dead on my server or other PVP servers Actually it was dead when there was no flying but has been active ever since flying was added back to Draenor continent.

Yes players are bunched up in invasions and most of then utilize flying mounts to reach Legion invasion hot spots. Does it stop players from doing world PVP in flying areas where flight isn't restricted? No. Thanks for making my argument and proving my point while you undermine your own argument! Sometimes, I wonder if the people that wade into this topic realize that you all undermine your own arguments without thinking through what you are arguing about in the first place? Moving on.

The expansion where you can gear up to Mythic level gear without setting foot in a raid is a raid or die expansion?

Participating in a skinner box system? Yeah no thanks, but I do find it disconcerting that you think that there is a remote chance most players will experience what you have outlined. Truth, is that it is a gimmick to keep players grinding against the players' interests. And thus, will induce a greater rate of burnout as it is against the player's interests and doesn't allow players to reasonably progress, but causes a massive stratification of the player base. For the most part, PVE and PVP gear in Legion is being gated behind raids and rated play with the illusion that players have a "chance" of being able to obtain mythic raid gear outside of those two endgame modes. But enough of that as this is the flying thread.

I suppose I don't find it interesting to post constantly in one dull topic for two years
Since this topic is already dead and is on constant life-support. It had some influence in pre-release and on release when people just assumed flight would be handled like before, it took players by surprise. Blizzards vagueness in the topic further throwing shit on the fan. Now players have gone through pathfinder once, in Legion no one is really going to be surprised. Legions design seems many, many times better fitted for an expansion where flying is gone for a while... because players will actually have things to do for more than 2 weeks. And players that have things to do aren't going to spend the majority of their time bitching about flight being gone for a couple of major patches.

You consider it a dull topic and yet you decide to post in it. Thanks for free bump I guess? Moving on, people kept proclaiming that the topic was dead and the debate was over, and yet the playerbase has spoken up several times ensuring the debate will never go away. Blizzard opened this can of worms without thinking through the ramifications for what they are trying to do and without trying to adjust entire game systems it hampers. Did they fix archaelogy in Legion to account for no flying for who knows how long? That is a big fat no so far, but hey we will have a RNG chance on top of a RNG chance for a RNG chance for Titanforged gear...who cares about having fun!

You must be in great denial if you think players are not going to be upset to be lead along like what happened in WoD and making Legion patchfinder part one more grindy than the entire WoD pathfinder achievement.

Flight is and remains a mid-to-late expansion luxury

A flight whistle is a luxury too using your broad definition of a luxury. So why is that in the game at the start of the expansion? So Blizzard cherry picks which luxuries to allow and which to deny player's access?

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No. Stop this "well we could bring back flying but cripple it somehow" stuff. AGAIN, the game grew and was fine for years with flight around. I don't mind them delaying it a little (to the .1 patch) and I actually would prefer having an in-game reason to have flight not work and then have a long quest chain to get it working again... but when it's working, it should just work.

The problem is there is no indication that it will be in the first patch. But we will learn soon enough wihen Legion launches and 7.1 goes on the PTR realms. The likely hood of flight being available for patch 7.1 seems unlikely as that doesn't really fit the criteria of mid expansion.

[MasterHamster]

I didn't realize I would have to explain it to you slowly but I guess some players really have a hard time comprehending the greater picture of how game systems are interlinked:

Flight makes world PVP far more better (eg Legion invasions) and it is conducive to more world PVP because you are able to go to PVP flare ups. Also, I do not know of a good world PVP player that wants Blizzard to ground other players indefinitely or for long periods of time. The only players that want to ground other players are bad world PVP players that whine about players escaping them and refuse to understand and learn how PVP mechanics work. Or how to improve themselves for world PVP, so instead they blame flying for their faults and also not recognizing that instanced PVP has dominated WoW for almost a decade now.

*watches the cloud of people safely afk above the invasion sites*
Yes, I suppose the bad PvPers can be upset that players are out of their reach to begin combat to begin with. Or that flying mounts are nearly impossible to beat compared to those escaping on a ground mount that are still at the mercy of the surrounding area and terrain. Escaping on a ground mount can be exhilerating, escaping on a flying mount is victory the moment you press spacebar

World PVP may be dead on your server, but it is not dead on my server or other PVP servers Actually it was dead when there was no flying but has been active ever since flying was added back to Draenor continent.

Look at all these subjective experiences and fit-the-narratives we can throw at eachother!
Where exactly do these PvP battles happen, when the only real congregation zones in Draenor is Kazzak and Tanaan Zone bosses?

Yes players are bunched up in invasions and most of then utilize flying mounts to reach Legion invasion hot spots. Does it stop players from doing world PVP in flying areas where flight isn't restricted? No. Thanks for making my argument and proving my point while you undermine your own argument! Sometimes, I wonder if the people that wade into this topic realize that you all undermine your own arguments without thinking through what you are arguing about in the first place? Moving on.

Understanding the game isn't black or white isn't undermining anything. However, trying to find the most common denominator apparently is. For me, the common denominator for world pvp to happen are design choices that make people compelled to go there. You're just hellbent on claiming that the fact that flying allows players to reach invasions faster is somehow balancing the issue that flight is almost completely disconnected from the plane where 99% of combat happens = the ground.

Flying is detrimental to WPvP but of course it isn't outright, 100% hindering it to happen... assuming there's something causing them to find it worthwhile to be there, like Invasions do thanks to Nethershards and gear that can be titanforged to 720 which to many players is an upgrade.

You consider it a dull topic and yet you decide to post in it. Thanks for free bump I guess? Moving on, people kept proclaiming that the topic was dead and the debate was over, and yet the playerbase has spoken up several times ensuring the debate will never go away. Blizzard opened this can of worms without thinking through the ramifications for what they are trying to do and without trying to adjust entire game systems it hampers. Did they fix archaelogy in Legion to account for no flying for who knows how long? That is a big fat no so far, but hey we will have a RNG chance on top of a RNG chance for a RNG chance for Titanforged gear...who cares about having fun!
You must be in great denial if you think players are not going to be upset to be lead along like what happened in WoD and making Legion patchfinder part one more grindy than the entire WoD pathfinder achievement.

You're welcome. Something else than endless echo chamber circlejerking.
And nah, it probably will never go away. Similar to people that still has to shoehorn "glory days of BC" into every post, or the evils or CRZ, or raiding changing from strict 40 or 10/25 to flexible. So much shit players feel worthwhile to complain about for months and years on end. Your entire "movements" strength was the failure of WoD to deliver content to keep players occupied, so No Flight essentially didn't accomplish anything. No Flight was supposed to re-focus how world content is tackled and experienced, but there were nearly none to experience after leveling.

There will always be group upset about something. And I see you're still not acknowledging that Legions Pathfinder encompasses more than just one patch. So of course it's going to be "more grindy".
Unlocking Flight in Legion is supposed to be a lengthy task spanning a sizeable chunk of the expansions timeline, just like maxing Artifacts or reputation. Working towards it instead of furiously awaiting the patch to "unlock flight". Feel satisfaction in accomplishing and not just hand over 1000 gold to unlock flight the moment you hit 110.

A flight whistle is a luxury too using your broad definition of a luxury. So why is that in the game at the start of the expansion?

Because it's more interesting than freeform flight. It has a cooldown, it makes you think, and consider which FP is the nearest. It encourages you to unlock all FPs. Similar reasons to why I had no problems with Aviana's Feather. Items like them causes you to THINK and PLAN A BIT.

So Blizzard cherry picks which luxuries to allow and which to deny player's access?

That's what game designers do, yes. Same way they will never give us teleports to every area in the game. Finding balance.
How is this an issue? Would you prefer if they gave us no luxuries?

[Azerox]

Its just for the money. You need more time to do things so have to buy more sub and keep playing longer before u get bored.

Thats the reason this is invented. Not for "ohh so u can see everthing beter" bs.

Imo it could just be a small Q when u reach max and get "Felflight?" for 200k or so.

[Sodniss]

Its just for the money. You need more time to do things so have to buy more sub and keep playing longer before u get bored.

Thats the reason this is invented. Not for "ohh so u can see everthing beter" bs.

Imo it could just be a small Q when u reach max and get "Felflight?" for 200k or so.

Maybe it's true every word you said..but i support this..i pass all WoD without flight license.. and it was really cool..get a little extra time to travel but nothing wrong with that!