How should the blood elves react to Suramar & the nightborne

[Beloren]

I'm curious - , I know I should probably be asking that concerning the highmountain which is the horde sub-race, but presenting proper arcane night elves has got to be interesting for them after the pathetic shen'dralar showing.

disclaimer: yes I know it's the night elves turn for attention and they haven't had real focus for 14 years blah blah, and blood elves have gotten lots of attention and have demon hunters too, still, it would be interesting to see if any friendly overtures are made.

So far it seems blood elves are been shown to hate even the highborne if cata is to go by, so it's not looking good - I know some of you are excited to see a nightborne vs blood elf in your classic dark elf v light elf, and seeing that the dark elves are on the alliance side and the light elves on the horde, it should make a previously 1-sided contest far more intriguing. But what if in another AU, there wasn't all this fighting - no elves picking sides in horde v alliance.

Or lets forget hostilities, and try not to view everything in horde v alliance language, do you think the blood elves would like the nightborne? be jealous of them? want to cease their power? make friends with them? dominate them? or a mixture of all the above? The elven nations keep growing, now we have like 6 sub-groups, night elf, highborne, nightborne, high elf, blood elf, darkfallen - they'are beginning to be as varied as the various human nations or orc clans.

Human nations/groups
Stormwind, Gilneas, Arathor, Kul'tiras, Dalaran, Lordaeron, Alterac = 7

Orcs:
Frostwolf, Warsong, Dragonmaw, Blackrock, Shadowmoon, Shattered Hand, [Mag'har, half-orcs] = 6, 8


Elves:
althought they are split into two main groups:
Elves of the night: night elf, highborne, nightborne:
Elves of the day: Blood elf, High Elf, Darkfallen

and it's split across both factions, it's still 6.

What if the Elves united? and became a faction two of their own? What races amongst the horde and alliance do you reckon will join them?

[Aucald]

I think the Blood Elves would probably view the Nightborne as kin, given their arcane dependency and heritage as well as the common refrains of their history. The Nightborne, well, they would probably collectively look down their noses at the Blood Elves as they seem to do with the other "outsiders." They're not really in any position at the moment to make war on any of the other factions, however; and I doubt either the Night Elves or Blood Elves would move on their holdings without causing a diplomatic incident.

[Deleted]

Personally, I don't think the blood elves would hate the Nightborne. As far as I understand, the Blood Elves hate the Highborne because they were welcomed back into Night Elven society while they, who actually switched sides in the WotA and helped the Night Elves against the Legion, were exiled.
To top it all off, the Night Elves were apparently not content with just exiling them, but thousands of years later, they would sabotage them and deny them a place in the Alliance. And a few years later, they welcomed those back into their ranks who the Blood Elves consider worse.

About Blood Elves and Nightborne, I don't think they will share that animosity with them, as they are not affilliated with the Night Elves or the Alliance.
They might even feel some sort of sympathy since the Nightborne suffer a similar fate like the Blood Elves with the Withered and the Wretched, respectively (even though it's reversed; the Nightborne mutate by deprivation of the Nightwell's energies while the Blood Elves mutated by overindulgence).

[Mace]

I responded to your other topic, from a normal perspective, blood elves should have been happy with the highborne of Dire Maul (Eldre'thalas), and should also be with the nightborne of Suramar even though they are related to the night elves - because it was the Hyjal group that exiled the highborne - and while the Shend'relar have not held that against the night elves but actually came to them, the high elves and blood elves hold it against them.

but hate is funny, and things don't always turn out logically, furthermore, this is a story based on a game, and the game objectives will dictate the narrative. and in the game, you have the horde vs alliance, and at the moment, the night group are on one side, and the day group are on the other side largely. So it's more likely they are not going to get along too well. Blizzard will want to maintain the horde/alliance conflict and nighborne aligning with the night elves and thus enemy to the blood elves fits that paradigm a lot better. It may change in a WC4, or WoW 2, but it's unlikely it would change in wow.

[Colonel Sandor]

"I feel you bro."

[ravenmoon]

"I feel you bro."

whiles that may be funny, there's very little to feel - very different circumstances

nightborne - isolation for 10k years
v
Blood elves - living in the world


nightborne - cocooned in a night elf city
v
Blood elves - free to move around

nightborne - corrupted source
v
Blood elves - dispersed source (later restored)

nightborne - dependent on nightwell energy for food
v
Blood elf - addicted to arcane energy for feel good/and power

nightborne - if they don't eat (i.e. drink the nightwell energy) they Wither into mindless being and then die (nightfallen state that ends in Withered), they have no choice
v
Blood elf - if they don't control themselves and absorb binge on too much arcane energy, they turn into addict fiends known as wretched, they choose.

nightborne - night based elves
v
Blood elf - day based elves

nightborne - night elven moon stars
v
Blood elf - sun based

nightborne - continue the night elven arcane tradition
v
Blood elf - abandoned everything to do with Kal'dorei culture and started their own utopia as high elves before becoming blood elves


nightborne - leader felt she had no choice but to join the legion to save her people
v
Blood elf - leader joined the legion to grow powerful and glorious

nightborne - the bad guys held the city, while the good guys were exiled
v
Blood elf - the good guys held the city, while the bad guys were elsewhere

nightborne - night elf
v
Blood elf - high elf


- I don't feels you bro

[Friendlyimmolation]

nightborne - leader felt she had no choice but to join the legion to save her people
v
Blood elf - leader joined the legion to grow powerful and glorious

Shes no better of a person than Kael'thas The Writers are just more careful now.

[Aucald]

Shes no better of a person than Kael'thas The Writers are just more careful now.

I wouldn't say Kael'thas' sole motivation was power and glory for himself (though I wouldn't discount it as a factor, either). He didn't trust Illidan to do what was best for the Blood Elves, and rather than serve a mortal master saw a chance for a greater future by allying with the Legion. It was foolhardiness, of course, but he was also beset by the twin madnesses of arcane addition and the need to revenge himself on behalf of his people.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It would be like invading a country, while being a pawn in a great war, and randomly encountering your blood-related grandparents whom you never met but heard stories of... that you assumed were long since dead... Pretty much.


Oh, and your grandparents are super rich via owning the cooled place in town (Suramar) and are sided with the enemy that you're there to kill. So, you're probably met with confusion before they fire a mana-charged RPG at you and tell you to get off their lawn.

[Deleted]

Oh, and your grandparents are super rich via owning the cooled place in town (Suramar) and are sided with the enemy that you're there to kill. So, you're probably met with confusion before they fire a mana-charged RPG at you and tell you to get off their lawn.

These are those in charge though, I think the OP is referring to the broad populace of the Nightborne, that have nothing to do with the Legion. The ones you actually help out.

[ravenmoon]

Shes no better of a person than Kael'thas The Writers are just more careful now.

what makes you say that? They really turned KAel'thas bad - it was shocking, but hey, he joined Illidan to help and save his people, but that's not why he joined the legion he got corrupt with power. That is not Elisande at all, I'm pleased they didn't make the nightborne reckless, magic addict, corrupt group, it would be the first genuine arcane based night elven group that didn't become corrupt. Seeing the shen'drelar did take on Immol'thar and the those that didn't die or were cursed like Nar'thalas became satyrs or naga - really a dark stain on the otherwise glorious arcane legacy. She's very different, and i'm glad she actually comes round after our encounter. I do find Elisande, Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan and Thalyssra quite unique and interesting characters. They do a good job when they focus on the night elves, and a terrible job when they do not.

- - - Updated - - -

These are those in charge though, I think the OP is referring to the broad populace of the Nightborne, that have nothing to do with the Legion. The ones you actually help out.

you're right, so easy to forget the main point of the post.

I don't think the blood elves will partifularly like the nightborne. The nightborne you will see stil have that highborne arrogance you see in the Shen'drelar group when you click on them in the night elf zones, even the comments from the guards - like calling night elf players lowborn etc is bad, this is in stark contrast to the likes of Lunastre and the ones you end up helping - it's the guards that have that evil attitude. Thalyssra too and those in the nightfallen reisstance outside ain't like that also.

Still, nightborne civilization is very very night elven, and whiles the high elves didn't want anything to do with Kalimdor groups new approach to their lives - i.e. a life without the arcane, their rejection went well beyond that, they rejected Elune, night cycle, moon/star focus - basically all the key things that make a night elf Kal'dorei it was total reset, they would build a new kingdom, a utopia that would surpass that which came before.

So I suspect there will be a dislike - it's more like rivals, worthy rivals too, touch of jealousy/ They may even suck up at first. Blood elves have been very disdainful of night elves because of the past, but it seems that prejudice was carried over to the highborne in cata - you get one blood elf terrified at the prospect if the night elves were to fully embrace their arcane heritage, and you get the other that pours scorn all over their nascent efforts and thoroughly humiliates them and their highborne teacher.

So with the nightborne and the level of consistency and excellence and expertise in the group, when you add that the moonguard remnant have now also joined the nightborne/nightfallen resistance, the night elf circuit is going to be competitive amongst the blood elves versus the night elf, in particular the nightborne.

IT also doesn't help that they're on opposite sides too, they would hate the nightborne getting along with the night elves, and may try to sabotage it, but for a change i'd like to see the night elves and in particular the nightborne outsmart them. I think the night group have looked silly compared to the blood elves for a bit too long now. i tihnk a bit of the reverse is due. It's in appropriate that humans should show up elves, if you want to make the blood elves look stupid you should use the nightborne/highborne, if you want to make the night elves looks stupid, use the blood elves. Let them check each other out.

[Friendlyimmolation]

what makes you say that? They really turned KAel'thas bad - it was shocking, but hey, he joined Illidan to help and save his people, but that's not why he joined the legion he got corrupt with power. That is not Elisande at all, I'm pleased they didn't make the nightborne reckless, magic addict, corrupt group, it would be the first genuine arcane based night elven group that didn't become corrupt. Seeing the shen'drelar did take on Immol'thar and the those that didn't die or were cursed like Nar'thalas became satyrs or naga - really a dark stain on the otherwise glorious arcane legacy. She's very different, and i'm glad she actually comes round after our encounter. I do find Elisande, Tyrande, Malfurion, Illidan and Thalyssra quite unique and interesting characters. They do a good job when they focus on the night elves, and a terrible job when they do not.

She joins the legions out of desperation and a future for her people, the same thing Kael'thas did. The only reason She does not become a whacky corrupt goon like Kael'thas is because The writers have a better time at writing out stories. You couldn't be serious and say that if she first showed up in Burning crusade. She'd suffer the same as Kaelthas.

I think the night group have looked silly compared to the blood elves for a bit too long now

As soon as they make several thousand years of catch up then they probably can. Don't forget Blood elves also never stop learning. Anything the night elves learn from the Nightborne, the Blood elves will obviously as well, just as they did from temptest keep and the Naruu.

[Deleted]

It's in appropriate that humans should show up elves, if you want to make the blood elves look stupid you should use the nightborne/highborne, if you want to make the night elves looks stupid, use the blood elves. Let them check each other out.

I fully agree with this, it's quite boring that the humans get to be the best at everything. I would like to see the two main elven factions outsmart each other from time to time. Sometimes have the Night Elves win (like recruiting the Nightborne or something like that) and on another occasion have the Blood Elves be the victors (like securing some special artifact both factions are after or w/e).

Shouldn't be on a 1:1 ratio though, because that's boring. I'd like them to have some sort of rivalry. I would also like to see some Lor'themar/Tyrande or Rommath/Tyrande interactions.

Unfortunately, if Blizzard for once decide to not have humans antagonize the Blood Elves, they usually use High Elves instead.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I fully agree with this, it's quite boring that the humans get to be the best at everything. I would like to see the two main elven factions outsmart each other from time to time. Sometimes have the Night Elves win (like recruiting the Nightborne or something like that) and on another occasion have the Blood Elves be the victors (like securing some special artifact both factions are after or w/e).

Shouldn't be on a 1:1 ratio though, because that's boring. I'd like them to have some sort of rivalry. I would also like to see some Lor'themar/Tyrande or Rommath/Tyrande interactions.

Unfortunately, if Blizzard for once decide to not have humans antagonize the Blood Elves, they usually use High Elves instead.

Tyrande fighting Lorthemar makes more Sense. Rommath would be fighting whatever arch mage the night elves or nightborne have.

[Deleted]

Tyrande fighting Lorthemar makes more Sense. Rommath would be fighting whatever arch mage the night elves or nightborne have.

Fair enough. I mentioned Rommath because in my opinion, he's one of the strongest (personality-wise) blood elven characters and I would love to see him do more. They could use that opportunity to elevate Mordent Evenshade to a more prominent Night Elf character and have those two become rivals though.

[The5thVegetable]

I'd imagine the Blood Elves and Nightborne would get along quite decently well because of their common fondness for arcane. And yes, the Shal'dorei are far closer to the original night elves than the Blood Elves are, but in all fairness, the night elves themselves have changed a lot since then. I imagine at least some of the Night Elves- at least the Highborne, getting along with the Nightborne, but at the same time, I feel like the nightborne may have a somewhat disdainful attitude towards them. Either way, I imagine the Nightborne would prefer to remain neutral, should they turn against the legion(I don't know if they do, and don't intend to find out 'til Legion hits), so I don't think their relations would be better with one or the other. Though we'll have to see!

[Alanar]

Shes no better of a person than Kael'thas The Writers are just more careful now.

Kael`thas showed no remorse even got a second chance, he was not strong enough to resist hes hunger for more power, while Elisande shows to be different and even want to help us kill Gul`dan.
But to counter that Kael`thas didnt have time magics to reverse hes last moment and use the horde. Shame he was so desparate in the end, when I think about it I am still bitter about hes story.

[Tenjen]

Personally, I don't think the blood elves would hate the Nightborne. As far as I understand, the Blood Elves hate the Highborne because they were welcomed back into Night Elven society while they, who actually switched sides in the WotA and helped the Night Elves against the Legion, were exiled.
To top it all off, the Night Elves were apparently not content with just exiling them, but thousands of years later, they would sabotage them and deny them a place in the Alliance. And a few years later, they welcomed those back into their ranks who the Blood Elves consider worse.

About Blood Elves and Nightborne, I don't think they will share that animosity with them, as they are not affilliated with the Night Elves or the Alliance.
They might even feel some sort of sympathy since the Nightborne suffer a similar fate like the Blood Elves with the Withered and the Wretched, respectively (even though it's reversed; the Nightborne mutate by deprivation of the Nightwell's energies while the Blood Elves mutated by overindulgence).

What i find odd concerning this part of the lore is that the blood elves ancestors were highborne too, and were the same group that the Shandrala belong to as well as that the current generation would even care.

Though iam curious as to the "sabotage them and deny them a place in the Alliance" part

[Friendlyimmolation]

Kael`thas showed no remorse even got a second chance, he was not strong enough to resist hes hunger for more power, while Elisande shows to be different and even want to help us kill Gul`dan.
But to counter that Kael`thas didnt have time magics to reverse hes last moment and use the horde. Shame he was so desparate in the end, when I think about it I am still bitter about hes story.

I just poin out that villains were villains in burning crusade because "they drop epics" story for bosses was an afterthought. Not like now

[Deleted]

Though iam curious as to the "sabotage them and deny them a place in the Alliance" part

I was referring to the Blood Elf starting area, where they at first tried to join the Alliance, but then this whole Prospector Anvilward/Night Elves sabotaging the sanctums stuff happened, pushing the Blood Elves to the Horde in the end.