For those who tank Vengeance and other tanks...

[Kaykay]

I'm rerolling from DK to DH. I enjoy the self healing aspect that they share, but DH just have far better mobility, and I really, REALLY hate Wraith Walk, it's terrible. The animation is just the Brewmaster idle, since it's channeled you can't cast anything without cancelling it, and you can't jump, so I really hope there isn't a tiny pebble in front of you because if there is you just wasted wraith walk.

the increased mobility is only for world questing, in dungeons, DH mobility revolves around being near the souls you've fractured. Everytime you leave your souls, you lose the ability to counter burst untill you've rebuilt the souls. This is the most dangerous time to be a DH, the first 4 seconds on pull, bad rng leaving you with no souls. Could lead you into having to throw away meta just to buy time.

On top of that, your strongest passive mitigation comes from the chance to 5 sec meta form, everytime you pick up a soul, This too takes a while till you can consistently keep it up.

DH has the least mobility of any tank right now. Only rivalled by the DK needing death and decay to do aoe, but atleast that only hurts damage, while DH's moving from their souls remove both their active healing, and their strongest passive mitigation (meta proc + 3% stacking reduction talent)

[Anterra]

I really like the DH tanks gamepplay. geared him at 715 or someth, and closed all mythis dungeons on this week.

My main is a ProtWar, so the comparison to him is main idea of my post. DH has a lot of utility, selfhealing and mobility. Quite dynamic gameplay.
BUT!
Right now, dunno, phps i'm wrong, DH feels a bit fragile. HP looks like cardiogram, if Spikes are not up. And this isn't what healers like.
I mean, in situations where you know - "Now will be a damn very hard strike" - and you simply don't have buttons to press to Avoid or Mitigare it.
Then your hp bar goes down, and you try to heal it as much as possible, and pray that your healer was prepared to it.

As a warrior - you simply use IP, and... that's all. You re Ok, Healers are Ok, Absorb was destroyed, but you are almost at full hp, under block, everything is ok.

Plus - DH simply doesn't have such passive defences like Warrs have. Simple passive profits from Warr's plate armor and benefits from Defensive stance covers most of passive and active DH's tools. And 120% armor rating? Boomkins have 200%, guys...

So, warr offers some kind of Stability in tanking-healing process. DH is kind of extreme right now.
It's pretty cool, for some players, but i think it should be rather a choise. Because for progression - Stability and predictability is preferred.

Hope that at 110 situation goes more stabile for DHs, cuz i realy plan to level him first

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

DH tanking feels very RNG to me. Sometimes you won't get souls after 4 uses of generator, especially on AoE it feels bad when Immo aura is on CD.

On DK I have way more control over my healing and have many CDs to use while tanking multiple mobs.

I must say at 100 I feel very limited with self-heals. It's fine if I have targets in range for Soul Cleave and no impediments to pooling pain, but let me get CC'd at the wrong time, health dips and I'm not able to immediately Soul Cleave coming out of it... I do feel like my other tanks have more "oh shit" buttons. But I've only tanked at 100 and surely more options await by 110.

[Deleted]

I've never really liked tanking as Warrior or Pally. My main has always been Blood DK ever since they where avaible. But after the new revamp is Blood unplayable.
I've been testing what tank to play and DHs mechanic feels old DKs in some ways with great mobility. I love it and I will for sure be DH as main in this expansion.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I must say at 100 I feel very limited with self-heals. It's fine if I have targets in range for Soul Cleave and no impediments to pooling pain, but let me get CC'd at the wrong time, health dips and I'm not able to immediately Soul Cleave coming out of it... I do feel like my other tanks have more "oh shit" buttons. But I've only tanked at 100 and surely more options await by 110.

Maybe Fel Devastation is the button I'm waiting for. I'm looking at this build. What are others thinking?

[Deleted]

Ok. I can't post links right now, so I'm just sharing my thoughts without a link.

T1:
I'd go for Agonizing Flames, what else. Razor Spikes could be good with better gear. Not sure yet, and haven't tested on beta.

T2:
My favourite is Fallout, it's just nice to have a few Soul Fragments after the Pull.

Feast of Souls is a Talent that I personally find quite boring, if it will be the best I would take it but I try to avoid it.

T3:
I really like the procc of Flameblade, something else to do than just spam Shear. My favourite in this row.

T4:
I love Fracture, it makes everything so much smoother, build up some Fragments and when you get a harder hit or drop below 75% go for Soul Cleave. Worked fine till Mythic +5 after that the not 100% uptime from Demon Spikes was hard to compensate. I will see how it works out on live. Maybe I have to wait for the 4 Set Bonus to take it.
Otherwise Feed the Demon. Up to 100% uptime, nothing more to say.

T5:
Sigil of Chains is awesome in Mythic+. In Raids one of the other 2 depending on the encounter.

T6:
Fel Devastation

T7:
Last Resort, maybe Soul Barrier for some fights if it gets a bit more tuning, since the last time i tested it.


At all I love the DH tank.
Maining Tank since BC, mostly my Warrior i'm going to main the DH now.

[Kaiede]

the increased mobility is only for world questing, in dungeons, DH mobility revolves around being near the souls you've fractured. Everytime you leave your souls, you lose the ability to counter burst untill you've rebuilt the souls.

I thought this scenario is exactly what Infernal Strike helps with. Giving you a way to get back into the right position after knock back or other effects more quickly so you don't have to leave the fragments behind. To me, that is part of mobility when you are a tank. I honestly think the only tanks not rewarded for keeping mobs nailed to the floor in Legion is maybe the Warrior and Druid. DKs and Paladins have their ground effects, Monks and DH have healing orbs. Although DH probably has the highest value in keeping stuff still once the fight starts as you say, but it needs mobility in order to do it.

I will say fights like Mannoroth make me prefer my DH to DK. Better options for getting back in range after Massive Blast or Shadowforce, and after Shadowforce it is important to avoid boss movement. After Massive Blast though is usually when I needed to burn Wraith Walk so Shadowforce didn't send me over the edge by catching me on the run back... with DH I can burn a charge on Strike for both mechanics.

I'm rerolling from DK to DH. I enjoy the self healing aspect that they share, but DH just have far better mobility, and I really, REALLY hate Wraith Walk, it's terrible. The animation is just the Brewmaster idle, since it's channeled you can't cast anything without cancelling it, and you can't jump, so I really hope there isn't a tiny pebble in front of you because if there is you just wasted wraith walk.

Honestly, DK utility in general in raids is just weak right now since almost all of it only works on trash and adds, and that includes the bits used for positioning while tanking. But I think the rotation itself is more interesting than it has been in ages. It's rough, but I'm used to the toolkit with Immune stamped all over it, so I'm not quite as bitter at where DK is right now.

So, warr offers some kind of Stability in tanking-healing process. DH is kind of extreme right now.
It's pretty cool, for some players, but i think it should be rather a choise. Because for progression - Stability and predictability is preferred.

This part sounds a lot like what people said about DKs back in Cata. The reality was more that good DKs were fine, bad DKs were really bad. The bigger problem is that our mitigation scales really well with gear, so expect a roller coaster ride through the raid tiers as Blizzard sees the end result. Thankfully, we probably won't see 100% uptimes on spikes in Legion (I hope). That would be nuts with high mastery as well.

As for the "big hit" button, have you tried aligning your fiery brand if you know the fight has this sort of mechanic? Although if it is physical, at 100, mastery with demon spikes tends to mitigate more damage.

[Deleted]

After playing alot of veng tank @ Live, i would say they ain t that fragile, People just tend to play with their AM / Sigils wrong.

Myself sitting at 711 ilvl, have no problems what so ever with mythic dungeons, heck sometimes i dont need much heals.
Play with the AM / Healing spikes correctly and it shouldnt be a issue, guess its the same @ Legion, with the higher vers/Mast you'll get the passive dmg reduction to be able to suck up those first seconds with ease.
Later you get Fracture, makes souls management way easier.

[Sliske]

RIGHT NOW in 7.0, DH feels fine to me. One thing I notice is that if you have a healer with you that doesn't rely on hots (pala for example) they will freak out when you hit 60% hp, and cast a huge heal on you, but half way through the cast you'll soul cleave and heal it all back up.

I watched my GF do this like 20x on her paladin in Mythics earlier. With our ridiculous levels of self healing at 110, I wonder how DHs will actually work out. I find myself making my healer obsolete, or during periods of heavy group aoe in mythic dungeons, i'll just pop a cd and self heal myself allowing the healer to ignore me entirely.

Over all, DHs are very fun. I like the choices and independence I feel I have when coming from a warrior tank, who basically just cycled through cds while rotting from trickle damage.

[Zugz]

Veng DH is the most enjoyable tank class for me. I also like being GCD locked. Honestly it feels like a monk/dk/war/rogue hybrid tank. I find it fun as hell and the mobility, Double Jump/glide for world questing and leveling have put it at the top spot for me going into legion to main.

I had no issues tanking all WOD mythics at ilvl 690 starting stacking Vers/haste with mastery/crit being after. If I got in too much trouble I could cc packs w/ sigil of misery and jump away to buy the healer some time to help heal me up.

In Beta I had the most fun in mythic+'s on Veng DH vs other tank classes. The burst is insane on aoe and you can kite around better than a warrior.

[Jazzhands]

the increased mobility is only for world questing, in dungeons, DH mobility revolves around being near the souls you've fractured. Everytime you leave your souls, you lose the ability to counter burst untill you've rebuilt the souls. This is the most dangerous time to be a DH, the first 4 seconds on pull, bad rng leaving you with no souls. Could lead you into having to throw away meta just to buy time.

On top of that, your strongest passive mitigation comes from the chance to 5 sec meta form, everytime you pick up a soul, This too takes a while till you can consistently keep it up.

DH has the least mobility of any tank right now. Only rivalled by the DK needing death and decay to do aoe, but atleast that only hurts damage, while DH's moving from their souls remove both their active healing, and their strongest passive mitigation (meta proc + 3% stacking reduction talent)

The very first talent for artifacts generates 2 souls on a 40 sec. CD, in Mythic+ higher levels this may be an issue with super fast pulls, but otherwise you can generally start any encounter with this, and if you're moving that fast in mythic+ you probably have a few souls laying around anyways.

And you don't need to actually move to consume souls, Soul Cleave does this for you, part of the reason it costs 30-60 Pain is because you're suppose to pool pain to use when you need it, and even if you use Soul Cleave because you're about to cap on pain, you still have enough left for an oh shit soul cleave, demon spikes, or a few other self mitigation buttons because you're left with 30-40 pain. If you find you're running out of souls super quickly, either use your other mitigation tools better, get a better healer, or maybe look at your own capabilities.

DKs have Wraith Walk, a crappy channeled(I.E cannot do anything or it breaks) 3 second/70% sprint with a 45 sec. CD, or 4.5 sec though talents, and are limited to DnD for for decent AoE, especially with the recent BB nerf. Getting the full benefit of Wraith Walk is going to be limited, because often times as a tank you want to move and do things at the same time. You cant use any active mitigation/attacks during wraith walk.

DHs can get 2 charges of a 30 yard leap attack that does damage on a 20 sec. CD, or 40 yards/15 sec with talents. Or instead of that Talent, they can take one that makes Immolation aura a 30% sprint for 6 sec. on a ~13 sec. CD. Personally I like Immo aura, because I still have leaps and now a sprint, and 30% is a pretty decent speed boost for such a short CD. Immolation aura also travels with me.

Also, something a lot of people may not realize, but double jump>Glide makes you move a lot faster during the gliding portion, and during the jumping portion you lose no speed according to my addon. So you can literally spam glide and move faster than others. If you time it well enough you can also single jump>glide, which is even faster.

Edit: Checking in game, normal run speed for my Vengeance DH is 120%, during glide i'm at 178.6. Literally a spammable ~1 sec 58.6% speed boost, easily usable in combat.
Edit2: DH leap is also off GCD. This is amazingly useful, as you can always have an on demand snap aggro that can hit anything anywhere.

They can also get Sigil of chains, far and away a better version of Gorefiend's Grasp.

Honestly, I don't think you've spent much time playing a DH or DK tank. Nearly every other tank has better movement options than a DK. If Wraith Walk wasn't channeled, it would be pretty decent, but every other tank has either a better sprint, or a charge. DKs have their own utility in 5 mans/raids, but in terms of mobility they fall behind.