1 Legion in all realities? CONFUSING!

[Combatbutler]

From what I understand the Warcraft Cosmos is made up out of 6 of such 'power plates', or to give it a less scientific name: 'energy'.
Arcane, Fel, Holy, Nature, Necromantic and the Void. All 6 of these exist in all realities and dimensions and so too do their main 'champions': The Titans, The Burning Legion, The Void Lords, The Wild Gods, The Naaru and a yet unknown 'Undead' force. They live or find their origin at the source of these energies so they exist outside the reality where these forces meet.

Actually there are only two forces that matter and everything derives from them, Light and Void. All the universes, including the twisting nether are merely a byproduct of a clash of these two forces.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The second Caverns of Time got involved, you have to consider alternate realities. WoD mostly just made it more obvious and opened the door wide open. The Burning Legion composing of all realities is a easy answer for the well question Blizzard opened themselves up to. Of course this also makes you wonder


Does Archimonde/Kil'Jaeden and Mannoroth know of the alternate versions of Draenor and such. Not to mention is Azeroth special in those alternate timelines or just another planet? It's not confusing but it just makes more questions.

[Teaon]

Actually, no. While it's true that "we might change that" does open the possibility of them changing its canon status, "might" is not "will" - so it's what it was supposed to be. Of course, I agree that one can argue that this only means it's uncertain. However, the second point come forth.

In the Warlock Destruction Artifact quest chain, if you have never killed Archimonde in Mythic (= don't have Mythic Archimonde achievement), Gul'dan will just said "Ah, Jergosh, at last! Bring me the book!" when you arrive, and "Congratulations on your "promotion", Jergosh <...> . However, if you killed Archimonde in Mythic, Gul'dan will instead said "Ah, the Book is here, at last... borne by one whose meddlesome handiwork I know well! Come to join the winning side, "hero"?", "Even the slayer of Archimonde has accepted this world's fate! Come closer, then" and "Not surprising that you came out the victor, I considered aiding Allaris against you, but your resourcefulness may prove useful. Consider this... a promotion! Do not disappoint me!" (you can see one with the M-Archimonde achievement version here, and the ones without it almost everywhere on youtube).

If they have changed their mind, which means Archimonde is alive in both version, why would there be a difference between M-Archimonde kill and H-Archimonde kill? If the Mythic version is supposed to be non-canon, then why would there be special lore dialogue for it?

there is a quest in the druid camping related to archi

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=107215/gu...e-dream#starts

one can argue how this works if he is forever dead

[Nurvus]

It was present Legion.

Once again, DC Comics. Apokolis invaded Earth 2 at the same time Darkseid attacked Prime Earth. Five years later, Darkseid attacked Earth 2 and consumed it and then attacked again Prime Earth (and was killed by Anti-Monitor).

Confusing? Yes, but easy to understand if one follows the "timeline" of the invader.

That's irrelevant to my point.
We're not talking abou traveling between realities.
We're talking about dude from PRESENT reality A, goes to PAST reality B only to return to PRESENT reality A.

What if "Present" Legion could give crucial information to "Past" Legion? That'd be insane.

MU Azeroth is "now".
AU Draenor is "back then".
MU present Garrosh traveled to AU past Draenor.
If that Archimonde was from the present, then the Legion was time-traveling. How? Help from Kairoz?

The Legion cannot possibly time-travel at will. If it could, the whole Warcraft story would implode on its own stupidity.

If Kairoz did help, perhaps the Infinite Dragonflight is somehow connected to the Legion?
Afterall, Kairoz did want an infinite army. Isn't that what the Legion is supposed to be?
Perhaps Kairoz was being manipulated?

[Sylreick]

Think of it like this. The timeline in WoW: MU is the original line from which all others spawned. It is the one the Titans and demons and everything originated in, but the demonic fel energies tied the demons to the nether. Through which they were tied to all their "other selves". In effect this is what makes them immortals, they just swap their "presence" or soul or whatever with another version of themselves in other universes. So they can only effectively be eliminated by destroying their soul or whatever in the nether, binding them to separate realities and thus no longer a problem for the MU.

They can mess and tamper with all the other realities they want, but it remains their goal to get the MU Azeroth. This is why they went through the hassle of leading Garrosh back to AU Draenor, because they had a use for Gul'dan in bringing them into MU. Obviously plans went crazy, but in the end they got what they wanted.

[Deleted]

Unfortunely it doesn't make any sense.

We can just say that if Archimonde showed up in alternate Draenor and gets defeated, why doesn't he send multiple versions of him in the future to the past so instead of 1 archimonde we have to fight 2 or 3 and lose?

It makes no sense. Its a complete mess.

Theres only a few ways to fix this. Either this is all a dream that Anduin is having in that tavern in Pandaria (or some crazy spell cast by Khadgar) and we rewind all this crap, or Blizzard just has to give up on this Legion in all worlds thing and have a different legion on each dimension. Though even that could be a problem cause then different legions could join up and we'd have 2 Sargeras. But, on the other hand, thats what makes sense.

I so prefer the dream option and lets just can all this. >.< This is ruining the WoW lore big time. Retcon!!!

I guess as nurvus says, if they can at least establish the condition in wich the legion can time travel or move to other dimensions maybe some semblence of sense can be obtained. But it's such a mess.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Alright so if there is one legion across all timelines, how does that exactly make sense? There are multiple Velens but only one Kil'Jaeden and one Archimonde? If I am right about that, they put in a massive paradox.

[My User Name]

Alright so if there is one legion across all timelines, how does that exactly make sense? There are multiple Velens but only one Kil'Jaeden and one Archimonde? If I am right about that, they put in a massive paradox.

I remember seeing a really cool theory about that in the forums. It was "what if all Kil'jaedens and Archimondes across timelines became one when they turned to demons" or something like that.

[Leviatharan]

From what I've understood, the AU Draenor is in its own "bubble". For all intents and purposes, it was a "possibility" that didn't really "exist" until the moment Kairoz bound it to the MU Azeroth, and the bubble Kairoz wove together didn't bring its own corresponding AU Azeroth. He picked a moment where part of the main timeline splintered off (otherwise forever dooming it to remain a "possibility"), and wired it back in to the ongoing timeline later down the line.

And in some ways if you think about it, the fact that the ONE Legion exists across multiple realities actually puts context to their strategies. Sure they could attempt to invade all alternate timelines... but remember, that takes time and resources for them. There's one Legion, moving in lockstep with the alpha timeline (if it's to be believed that this Archimonde is dead "permanently", then he already visited Azeroth even though that wouldn't happen in the AU history for decades), and infinite beta timelines for them to campaign against; take away their resurrective immortality and there's actually a limited number of demons. Every one of those campaigns has potential to kill off their members for real through unforeseen weapons created by the deviation or freak occurrences - if we're to accept that Archimonde was killed off permanently at the end of WoD because he received a killing blow in the Twisting Nether (on Mythic) and/or the Black Gate was "sufficiently" steeped in fel, then imagine other commanders making similar mistakes across an infinite number of timelines. They would wear thin, making further campaigns more difficult. Tactically more sound to focus your efforts on one at a time.

[Trassk]

More to the point of how stupid this kind of writing is, it basically means it doesn't matter if you were able to stop the legion in one timeline, they'd just attack another and another.

It feels to me that same annoying mary sueing player character worship Bullshit blizzards been doing lately, where now it seems the only reality the legion seems interested in attacking is the reality your character presides in. Your sooooo special they have to fight your PC because you are the only one who can be a threat to an omniversal entity like the legion.

Sometimes, I really would love to walk into the blizzard HQ, find the writing staff, grab their ears, and scream into it TONE IT THE F**K DOWN!

[Deleted]

Well I think it is just how it is, there is no trick to it, devs said that there is only 1 Legion so there is only 1 Legion

[Gaucho-]

This actually makes the most sense of all the theories.
- The "Main" universe is the one that has a world soul. That's the timeline that is important.
- Not all world souls are in the same reality
- The Twisting Nether unifies them all. It's the "blank space" between, the "glue".
- Void Lords and Titans (and by extension the Legion via Sargeras) occupy the Nether naturally.
- The original mission of the Titans, Void Lords, and now the Legion is to find all of the world souls and awaken / corrupt / burn-purge them. This requires sifting through all possible realities, which takes... Literally... Forever.
- The Aspects were created by a Titan to protect Azeroth. Specifically MU Azeroth; so the Bronze and Infinite can use tools from alternates if they need to (Blackmoore), but ultimately it's the outcome of ours that counts, and the outcome that resists the Legion the longest that is the "best".
- The Garnish / Iron Horde story is probably more on the level of personal power than Titanic, since nobody got reborn out of the Nether, and they're all copies, not singular entities. It was of most concern to us because it was an invasion of Azeroth.
- AU Gul'Dan and the Legion are a union of convenience... When Garrosh / We altered the timeline from the "original lore", the Legion took more interest in the situation because it opened a new opportunity different from the previously established "dead end" it the First/Second War.

Now the Legion has a new "in" on invading our world, and presumably the channel Gul'Dan is using to portal them in is more powerful than their options in the Third War... Perhaps more in line with the scale of the War of the Ancients.

What we don't know much about is Argus. Why were the Eredar so advanced? Why did Sargeras choose their leaders to be his lieutenants? Did Argus have a world soul? AU Velen seems to imply he understands the multiverse better than most during the Shadowmoon quests, but ultimately he's not a Titan and not a singular being (as Archi and KJ appear to have become), and his sacrifice is for a very "local" reason. Likely there are no "good" A/KJ's because once they went Legion, all their duplicates ceased to be.

You're like 90% wrong in every single text line. I suggest you reading Chronicle.

[Tyraena]

If the nether is central and the binding agent of any and all timelines, then creatures once bound to the nether become essentially unique, and indestructible to a degree since their true forms are bound in the nether to be reincarnated into new bodies at need. Hence the need for the keystone to seal the nether, thereby banishing the creature s of the nether for eternity (or until the next convenient plot twist) as locking them from escaping the nether removes thier ability from rentering the normal space-timeline for an world or branch due to their "unqiue" form of existence.

None of this is fact or even possibly based on anything other than my own conjecture that ties all the fantasy elements together cohesively, but it explains a fair amount.

[Galathir]

If you want to stick to it, here's a question: if there is only 1 Burning Legion, with a single Archimonde, KJ and Sargeras, and almost close to infinite amount of pararell/alternate universes, we've got a single Burning Legion needing to destroy not only our Azeroth, but Azeroth of each of those universes. Good luck with that, guys.

According to Illidan novel Demon Hunters claw their eyes out because their demons show them visions of just that happening.

- - - Updated - - -

there is a quest in the druid camping related to archi

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=107215/gu...e-dream#starts

one can argue how this works if he is forever dead

No need to argue, the quest answers it.

Remember, <name>, we are trapped in Malorne's nightmare. There is no telling what will manifest here, but we MUST do something.

[Okacz]

According to Illidan novel Demon Hunters claw their eyes out because their demons show them visions of just that happening.

Okay, so what about, for example, Sargeras himself? If Legion spans all universes, that means there is just 1 copy of Sargeras against possibly infinite amounts of Azeroths. So during the War of the Ancients, when he was trying to enter Azeroth via portal, did he just single out this particular Azeroth we live in? Were all other Azeroths totally cool, with their queen Azsharas trying their best to summon Sargeras to no avail, since he was busy with our Azeroth? Or did he have a detailed schedule? "Monday 10:30 - failed invasion of Azeroth #581235, 11:00 - failed invasion of Azeroth #581236".

I generally dislike the multiverse plots, unless they are just for laughs (Back to the Future). In other cases it's just some nonsense so illogical that plot of "Batman v Superman" starts making sense. And if Blizzard is actually going with "one singular Legion against all other universes" it's probably the stupidest multiverse plot I've ever heard.

[Grenzstein]

I believe that there aren't infinite amounts of Azeroths. Only one.
Another Draenor was created when Garrosh went back in time thus creating another timeline. And that's it. Now we will be closed off the alternate draenor and will be back to only one "reality".

[Wries]

Not their greatest moment of lore-creating (over twitter, no less). But, even though we have NPCs quoting "infinite realities" I sort of want to think about it like some of you do. That there is only one Azeroth and an alternative timeline/universe only starts existing once we venture into it like on Draenor. Else, the Burning Legion would have had their behinds handed to them infinite times over.

[Qualia]

Okay, so what about, for example, Sargeras himself? If Legion spans all universes, that means there is just 1 copy of Sargeras against possibly infinite amounts of Azeroths. So during the War of the Ancients, when he was trying to enter Azeroth via portal, did he just single out this particular Azeroth we live in? Were all other Azeroths totally cool, with their queen Azsharas trying their best to summon Sargeras to no avail, since he was busy with our Azeroth? Or did he have a detailed schedule? "Monday 10:30 - failed invasion of Azeroth #581235, 11:00 - failed invasion of Azeroth #581236".

Yes, he did single out this particular Azeroth we live in, which wouldn't be too unbelievable seeing we are supposed to be the main universe. We don't know what happened to other universes at that time - maybe the Legion sent some minor lieutenants there, or it's also possible that the Legion weren't involved with them at all (if they can destroy everything by destroying our universe, why bother wasting any significant effort on others?). Is there anything wrong about that, going with what we know so far in lore?

I believe that there aren't infinite amounts of Azeroths. Only one.
Another Draenor was created when Garrosh went back in time thus creating another timeline. And that's it. Now we will be closed off the alternate draenor and will be back to only one "reality".

It doesn't really matter what you think or believe. What matters is that Blizzard confirmed, at the moment, that there are other Azeroths, other universes existing as well. They weren't just "created when Garrosh went back in time".

[lockybalboa]

Just don't take Blizz seriously these days, they simply make use of time traveling BS when they cannot be arsed to create new lore content, and recycle old stuff again and again and again.

[Gheld]

The lore of WoD really isn't meant to be taken seriously and it would probably be best for the game if it was dropped from the canon altogether.

It was a bad gimmick to try and bridge the plot of the game with that of the movie (which went on to be delayed for a couple of years). Some genius at a board room table probably thought this would equal "X new subscribers".

The only thing that really advanced in the canon from WoD was that Gul'dan is now alive again. They didn't need an entire wasted expansion to accomplish that. So I am going to pretend WoD never happened. We just got back from Pandaria and a wizard resurrected Gul'dan and now he's summoning the burning legion.