Arms Legion Discussion

[Unholyground]

Don't forget nothing is truly balanced until you have a fully upgraded artifact weapon regardless of what Blizzard is saying, until we have enough data at 110 with fully upgraded weapons most points are moot.

[TummyBoy]

Oh my goodness, what year is it? Bad latency on WoW has caused me to read most of this entire thread.

I was super torn trying to decide which spec to play (still am) so I spent quite a bit of time on the Beta (definitely not as much as most, but I leveled up to 110 as both specs and played at 110 for a bit). Here's my 2cents on the matter regarding this Arms discussion...

o) Arms definitely is only standable (for me) after you obtain the WotFK artifact talent, and just gets better after that. I find the spec extremely boring and has way too much spam at 100, but this isn't necessarily the case at 110. Both Arms and Fury each have their pro's and cons for leveling (Second Wind + Victory Rush vs. Charge + Blood Thirst ... Bladestorm vs. Meatcleaver). The big issue I have with the "funness" of the spec is that, at its core, its only 3 buttons. CS > MS > Slam. This is fine, because you have lots of procs (at level 110 w/ Artifact filled out) on CS/MS and if you take OP then thats just another proc (how Arms used to be back in Wrath. when I really enjoyed it). However, I don't understand the harm of making it a 20s CD if it's meant to be reset often anyways.

o) A lot of people are discussing liking FR or not, and its the exact same as FR for prot: (To me) It doesn't feel good. An ability that buff's X dmg by Y% is not fun. This, along with Furious Slash for Fury, is a bad attempt at replacing Heroic Strike (R.I.P. HeroicStrike.org). IMO it should be a talent that you would go to if the fight has a lot of movement or need for high burst windows where you would have time/want to stack it.

Side note:I also hated MoP fury at first because I thought it was very clunky and awkward until I practiced with it and got better gear. This is probably the case for FR, so once I get better at the IftK/Trauma playstyle, I will certainly work on the FR playstyle to see if I get used to it. This aside, when they nerf Hamstring and when Legion is actually live, I would love to see how FR competes with IftK.

Me personally, I'm probably going to level fury to 13 artifact traits and then switch to Arms and get 13 for that. During that time, more info will be out for the two specs and I can decide then. I absolutely love Titans Grip, but I find the Fury weapons to be sup-par. I love the Arms swords, but I find the spec to be not as engaging as fury at the moment. But who knows... I'm a warrior at heart.


Major side note... what class trinket are you referring to? If it's Archi's, then won't it be nerfed at 110 and not used?

Major side note (but without a quote because I didn't want to find it)... To the guy who complained about Bladestorms 1.5minute CD: Bladestorm in Wrath was 1.5min CD

Thanks, this was a really nice post to read.

[nyjl]

Don't forget nothing is truly balanced until you have a fully upgraded artifact weapon regardless of what Blizzard is saying, until we have enough data at 110 with fully upgraded weapons most points are moot.

What? When we'll have fully upgraded artifact, content will be deprecated anyway.

[Unholyground]

What? When we'll have fully upgraded artifact, content will be deprecated anyway.

A lot of the synergy arms gets is from traits, so if no one is willing to wait they will never really be able to enjoy it.

[Ellianar]

What? When we'll have fully upgraded artifact, content will be deprecated anyway.

I highly doubt Legion is gonna be a 3 months expansion.

[reakwon]

Quick heads up.

Slam is now king.
FR sims really badly.
FoB is not worth using, for single target.

This is the build that sims the highest, at level 110, don't care about 100 any longer.
Mas>>Vers>Crit>Haste

Have yet to test Legendaries nor have I done Trinket comparisons.

Does this mean that Fury is ahead of Arms for DPS in terms of single target?

I am a little out of the loop.

[Deleted]

Does this mean that Fury is ahead of Arms for DPS in terms of single target?

I am a little out of the loop.

No, Arms seems to be ahead of Fury by a fair margin.

In case anybody is interested, the latest Simulationcraft version (unsurprisingly) had some glaring Arms bugs. MS cooldown was not being properly reduced by haste and tactician resets from MS were not properly resetting MS. Collisionc has since fixed them, leading to a significant increase in Arms' simulated DPS.

Going by quick testing, the strongest build for both pre-raid and mythic gear now seems to be Overpower/Avatar/FocusedRage/DeadlyCalm/AngerManagement by a significant margin.

With that build, Arms sims higher than Fury for single target DPS in pre-raid gear (284k vs 242k after swapping crit and mastery for arms' default profile) and mythic gear (443k vs. 355k with arms not having quite optimal stats still, fury using the execute ring and arms using the mortal strike gloves).

Compared to other classes, that'd currently put Arms just below Outlaw/Assa, equal to Fire and above all other specs currently implemented for pre-raid gear. Using mythic gear and legendaries, Arms now sims second highest after outlaw rogues and ahead of everything else for single target.

It's worth mentioning that the spec used here is terrible for AoE but can be really good for 2 target cleave if Overpower is replaced with Sweeping Strikes (378k DPS against 2 targets in pre-raid gear).

Edit: Stat values seem a bit wonky. Going through different combinations, Mastery > Vers > Crit is always the case. Haste seems to be very valuable until you reach certain breakpoints.

[Deleted]

So Arms wants Mastery and Versatility? Jesus, thats awful,Emerald nigthmare has like 1 plate item that gives our best stats

[Jadieon]

Arms is looking amazing for Legion with the talent that increases duration by 18 seconds of Colossus Smash, on top of Strom'kars ability.

[Gorgrom]

So Arms wants Mastery and Versatility? Jesus, thats awful,Emerald nigthmare has like 1 plate item that gives our best stats

Sure it was mentioned haste to about 6900 is top priority so I'd be going haste and mastery in en

[Deleted]

Really glad to hear the positive comments on Arms PVE, Really want a spec which I can do PVP and PVE in and not fall behind with Weapon. Arms seems the way forward. Been playing it since TBC as my "main" alt, but this expansion it's becoming my main

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Put 13 points into Arms then go to Fury for 13 points. The 14th trait starts the exponential jump in trait costs. Traits 1-13 cost a total of 6,500 AP. The 14th alone costs 6840.

So instead of getting Arms 14th trait, you can go and get Fury's first 13 for a bit cheaper.

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I don't see how you're getting that. I got the COMPLETE opposite impression. Thanks to the stupid artifact power system not being character wide, making class changes could make people suddenly feel like their spec now sucks and all the artifact power they spent on it was wasted. I don't see them making any worthwhile changes to the specs at all in Legion to not set off a wave of "GIVE ME A FREE ARTIFACT POWER RESPEC, YOU RUINED MY DPS"

100% agree, only a matter of time after the launch this happen.

[ReD-EyeD]

I feel obliged to say that I like that temporary limitation on spec power through the artifacts. It makes you focused on your "class" more and figuring out how you can grow within it. We all know that it's already a game about 36 "classes", not 12. For me it's like whining about not being able to respec warrior into rogue or something like that. And it's even temporary, not permanent.

It's not necessarily a bad thing and there are people who honestly love this change. Or I'm just too old fashioned, I don't know...

[thefatty01]

I feel obliged to say that I like that temporary limitation on spec power through the artifacts. It makes you focused on your "class" more and figuring out how you can grow within it. We all know that it's already a game about 36 "classes", not 12. For me it's like whining about not being able to respec warrior into rogue or something like that. And it's even temporary, not permanent.

It's not necessarily a bad thing and there are people who honestly love this change. Or I'm just too old fashioned, I don't know...

The issue is... with the way the gear transfers between specs, and having unlimited respecs to any of your specs, it just doesn't fit in with how blizzard has catered to those who want to play multispec. Taking it away from them now through AP will undoubtedly cause an uproar.

[Lebanese Dude]

Are the Arms simulation numbers based on that cheesy spamstring exploit?

[ReD-EyeD]

The issue is... with the way the gear transfers between specs, and having unlimited respecs to any of your specs, it just doesn't fit in with how blizzard has catered to those who want to play multispec. Taking it away from them now through AP will undoubtedly cause an uproar.

It's still not "taking away", but "building up to it".

[thefatty01]

It's still not "taking away", but "building up to it".

Yeah, but it's still harder than it was before. I mean I agree with it completely. Especially with the legion changes making each spec feel very independent (proper word choice?), I find the fact that you're tied to a single spec (unless working for it) to be a great idea that they're going back to.

[Sethanor]

yes, spamstring contributes about 10% dps as far as i remember

[ReD-EyeD]

A lot of classes don't even have that option to choose build from. Druids, Monks, Shamans, Paladins and now Demon Hunters with Survival Hunters they all don't have such luxury as changing dps specs. Well, some of them can, but not without changing the whole archetype from melee to range caster.

And now warriors, rogues and mages etc whine about not being able to switch fast to the flavor of the month spec.

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yes, spamstring contributes about 10% dps as far as i remember

Do we have any confirmation about it being fixed or everyone just assume that Blizzard will change it?

And while we are at it, how to properly spam it? What macroses are you using for it?

[thefatty01]

And while we are at it, how to properly spam it? What macroses are you using for it?

I just did a basic:
/cast hamstring
/cast Focused Rage

but I really haven't played with the FR spec too much yet.

[Sethanor]

you can also macro slam to that one and only use it during BC...

and no, we dont have confirmation yet, but we're all hoping as it really doesnt seem like an intended mechanic.