Legion Legendaries don't sound too tedious to acquire after all

[Lucetia]

World Mobs? I assume you mean general mobs that we use for questing / grinding? I'm pretty sure legenderies can drop from those, just a really low, low drop rate

It was suppose to be a low rate on World Mobs and heard a few got them that way. OP says from his information that didn't seem to be the case and it was only World Bosses. We won't know for sure until Legion is out and Blizzard is done making modifications. Because the ones I heard get them from mob drops could've been before they changed it or OP just hasn't ran into anyone who has.

[Rotted]

It was suppose to be a low rate on World Mobs and heard a few got them that way. OP says from his information that didn't seem to be the case and it was only World Bosses. We won't know for sure until Legion is out and Blizzard is done making modifications. Because the ones I heard get them from mob drops could've been before they changed it or OP just hasn't ran into anyone who has.

well I assumed a low drop rate would be the case, or extremely low drop rate I should say , to me, that would make sense with how blizzard have changed the game over the years

[Lucetia]

well I assumed a low drop rate would be the case, or extremely low drop rate I should say , to me, that would make sense with how blizzard have changed the game over the years

Yeah, I think in theory they drop everywhere. Just a lot of them are in extremely low drop rates. Would make sense that way we are actively always doing something trying to get them instead of sitting around in cities.

[bufferunderrun]

Please do inform me as to what my "agenda" is. I don't care if you are a moderator, its none of your prerogative to belittle or down someone for having a differing opinion than you.

That being said, why should LEGENDARY items drop from the most piss easy watered down version of a raid? At the very LEAST instead of straight removing them, the item level should not be 895.

There is no reason a person playing the disney land version of the raid should be able to acquire items equal to what someone playing the mythic version of the raid. Period.

the reason is to not play with peoples like you, and there is a jaylock in almost all high end guild, i don't want to read our rambling in guild chat or ventrilo tnx.

[Jaese]

You all always fall into the "argue with Jaylock" hole. Just ignore his idiocy and move on.

[LordAmbrosia]

I'm gonna be real salty if my first legendary is Sephuz or Prydaz instead of a cool class specific one... I really am not interested in those useless legendaries that everyone can get...

[Tharkkun]

It's kinda ridiculous when joe blow just got a 10k dps boost from his awesome legendary 4 from a normal dungeon months ago while you're here doing mythic dungeons and mythic raids and all sorts of major content daily on 3 characters without legendaries.

- - - Updated - - -



The bad luck streak protection can never completely eliminate rng. As it is, people can still go a full 6 months or more without seeing a single legendary drop.

When you're doing 200-300k+ DPS 10K dps really won't factor into anything huge.

[nekobaka]

I'm gonna be real salty if my first legendary is Sephuz or Prydaz instead of a cool class specific one... I really am not interested in those useless legendaries that everyone can get...

If I looked at it correctly there are also spec specific ones which suck for hybrids that main one spec yet get the item in another slot. The raw stat bonuses are still useful while at the same time they lose the purpose of being legendary and with my luck I will probably get the one I want when content is already overgeared.

So I will just go in with my expectations low.

[Deleted]

When you're doing 200-300k+ DPS 10K dps really won't factor into anything huge.

It's that 1% whipe on progression difference. It's that 3-5% performance difference in a competitive environment.

It's kinda ridiculous when joe blow just got a 10k dps boost from his awesome legendary 4 from a normal dungeon months ago while you're here doing mythic dungeons and mythic raids and all sorts of major content daily on 3 characters without legendaries.

This will be me. I am sure I'll end up with gear in the lower half of ilvl of what is possible. As soon as luck is involved I always draw the short straw, in game and in RL.

[Tharkkun]

It's that 1% whipe on progression difference. It's that 3-5% performance difference in a competitive environment.



This will be me. I am sure I'll end up with gear in the lower half of ilvl of what is possible. As soon as luck is involved I always draw the short straw, in game and in RL.

Unless you're in the top 1% of players then gear is not the reason you are wiping at 1%. It's just an excuse to cover up poor execution when playing your class.

[tratra]

I remember the legendary from MOP that everyone had to have... That was the worst thing blizz ever made. I didn't have it and I had descent gear but people wouldn't accept me into raids cause of not having it.

Hope the new legendaries are not the same or blizz is going to lose quite a few people like me that like to come back to the game after some time.

[Magicpot]

Legiondaries aren't really something you plan around getting or go out of your way to get. Legiondaries are just if you get one awesome, if you don't its not like you can know how to farm a specific one yet. What proof do you have that they cannot drop off any mob out in the world? Blizzard has said that they can drop from literally anything that gives loot, even mining and herb nodes.

What is going to suck though, is getting a legendary you don't want. Like the one that gives you 50% increased damage on a mob above 90% hp. That legendary is useless for 90% of each fight.

You're kidding, right? They'll have +10-20% performance impact on some specs. It will be get the right one NOW or be benched, and people will do ANYTHING to get their Legendary before raids release, and pugs will start hard-requiring them instantly.

[ShiyoKozuki]

You're kidding, right? They'll have +10-20% performance impact on some specs. It will be get the right one NOW or be benched, and people will do ANYTHING to get their Legendary before raids release, and pugs will start hard-requiring them instantly.

It'd be fine if Blizzard didn't cater to hard to the pug/solo player playstyle. Pugging shouldn't even be possible beyond the first 1 or 2 raid bosses and leveling dungeons in a properly designed mmo(not heroics or mythic dungeons).

[Flaks]

Unless you're in the top 1% of players then gear is not the reason you are wiping at 1%. It's just an excuse to cover up poor execution when playing your class.

That doesn't excuse the massive swing in dps you get from legendaries. Sims are showing arms netting a 30% dps buff from their legendaries meaning that no amount of skill can overcome that gear gap.

Guild sniping is going to be on par with tbc this expansion depending on who gets lucky with legendaries. Most mythic guilds might make do but the try hard guilds (pretty much any progression guild out there) is going to start benching people on the basis of which legendaries they have if any.

[InfinityRogue]

Many of you have argued that gear doesn't matter for anyone except the ~1% of raiders in an elite raiding environment. You are right, and as a player that has raided in several top world guilds, allow me to explain why you are right AND why RNG LEGENDARY loot is terrible for EVERYONE.

SKILL DEFICIENT RAIDING
Most players, and when I say most I mean a VAST majority, are gear-capped. This means that they aren't playing their class at it's highest possible level and the amount of damage, the raid strategy, and their overall raid awareness and survivability are not at the highest level. When this happens, it makes it more difficult to kill a boss. As the raid improves, they can gather more gear by killing other bosses The more gear a skill deficient player has, the more mistakes that player can make before the mistakes become too great and the raid wipes. Somewhere in the mixture of getting more gear on a weekly basis, learning the fight, and improving as a player, the boss dies. This completes the progression cycle on that particular boss, and the gear that he drops then becomes part of the cycle for the next boss.

SKILL CAPPED RAIDING
There is a small percentage of players who are are considered skill capped. This term is typically reserved for the top 10-20 guilds in the world and it means that the raid and raiders do not fail or succeed based off of a players skill but rather the other limiting factors (time, strategy, gear). Personal and group mistakes are RARE and happen as the group learns a fight, and perfects their strategy. These guilds dictate the race to world first, and more often than not, the world first team is successful not because they are more skilled players than the second or third ranked guild, but because they excelled in another outside factor.

Strategy is a huge component and the team that stumbles into the best strategy can easily win solely based on this factor. I think arguments can be made that world first kills on Lich King, Yogg, and more recently Grand Empress Shekzeer were all the result of unique strategies that either were used on that boss, or a boss before that gave teams a head start going into the final boss.

A team that plays 7 days a week will almost always beat a team that plays 5 days a week, and this is why top raiders play upwards of 18-20 hours a day during progression (7 days a week). Wrist injuries, eye strain, headaches, cramps, exhaustion and sleep deprivation are all very real and very common among top players. This greatly impacts the success of a top raiding team (TRUST ME, I HAVE NEVER HURT THAT BAD BEFORE IN MY LIFE. MY WRISTS AND FINGERS FELT LIKE THEY WERE ON FIRE AFTER RAIDING).

However, the two largest factors by far, are gear and class optimization. Ultimately, when skill, strategy, and time are no longer factors the only remaining factor is math. Can you deal enough damage, heal enough damage, and mitigate enough damage to survive an enrage timer, or mechanics. This is why top guilds camp the black market auction house and do split raids. They will stop at nothing to make sure that they have the highest ilvl possible when entering into a raid. This small difference in ilvl can and often does make the difference in killing a boss one week earlier or later. If a boss can almost be killed one week, it will almost always die the following week because the ilvl increase from a full clear will make the difference. Guilds try to shave that time off, by entering into the dungeon with the highest possible gear level. When you see a world first kill and you notice that they also have the worlds highest ilvl as a guild, it isn't luck. They have killed more bosses than you AND they prepared themselves beforehand to have the highest ilvl before the raid even began.

When ilvl isn't enough, guilds class stack. World first Spine and Madness of Deathwing, Nefarian, and Blackhand all used some form of class stacking to break through the math barriers that were holding their guild back, and to push more damage than normally possible. In the case of Spine of Deathwing in particular, Legendary items were the main focus and the Korean guild used 5 rogues, 7 mages, and 4 shamans in their world first kill.

LEGENDARY RNG IS BAD
Now that you understand the difference between high end raiding and low end raiding, let me explain why RNG is bad for everyone.

No matter who you are, and no matter what level of raider you are, performing worse than another player who is not as skilled as you, feels bad. That is a universal truth that extends far beyond gaming or World of Warcraft. At work, or in life, when we perform better than someone, we expect to be rewarded equally. When that doesn't happen, we feel cheated.

Legendary items, gear, and class stacking have always been used by top guilds, but never before has RNG dictated so much of a raids success. This is the first time ever, that huge dps swings will be controlled by complete luck.

Never before has the RNG required to get those items been more drastic than the last three expansions. The Legendary cape in MOP had some players getting their cloaks months before other players who were in the same guild, and had the same number of boss kills. The legendary ring wasn't quite as bad, but still it didn't feel great to wait two or three weeks longer than another player, just because they got lucky with tomes. And now in WoD we are dealing with something just as bad, if not worse. Not only is the item based entirely on luck and randomization, but the items that you get are also random. It is HIGHLY possible that high end raiders will have to spend hours upon hours upon hours trying to get the right items, and still having no success. It is highly likely that casual players won't get the desired legendary they want, EVER.

This effects everyone negatively and there is no winner in this system. No matter what, there will be players who work very very hard who will get unlucky and never get the legendary they want, while other players will get the items almost immediately. For the casual player, this feels pretty bad and for the high end raiding 1% this could be devastating. We will see large disparities in ilvl and dps between equal players and we will see more class stacking than ever.

CONCLUSION

Considering how RNG the legendary items are, and the fact that raid buffs have been removed... you can pretty almost guarantee that the first tier world first will be the team that utilizes legendary items the best, and every other tier world first will be dictated by class stacking.

GG BLIZZ. GG.

[Butosai]

LOL at the mythic raiders complaining about LFR, as if people who run content they don't are beneath them in skill.
How about we bring back limited attempts on bosses like in ICC? After all, Mythic raiders are all about "skill", not throwing yourself at the boss untill it dies.
Make Mythic raids have set stats like PvP? After all, Mythic is all about "skill not gear"

I know your trying really hard to be smart but most mythic raiders would LOVE that

[Youn]

I would be pretty happy with set stats in Mythic and limited attempts. Nothing like spending 500+ attempts on something with 20-30 in a single night. Just learning the phases. Only to find out your group doesn't have enough damage quite yet to get past phase 3. It happens, then you farm heroic some more and kill the boss in like 5-6 attempts.

[Schizoide]

Set stats would short-circuit the core MMO reward mechanism, so that's clearly a non-starter. But limited attempts would be a fantastic thing, protecting players from themselves, wiping hundreds of times on a boss.

Not necessarily limited to a low number like 10, of course. Just limited to a point where people don't burn out.

[Tommi]

I know your trying really hard to be smart but most mythic raiders would LOVE that

I would like it as well. I remember ICC limited attempts, and we didn't just throw our heads against the boss all night like what happens today. We actually spent the night rewatching vids we made of the fight to see what went wrong, how it happened and how we could fix it for next time.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You will get one just playing the game.
The tedium comes in getting one you want.