[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Alame]

Boomkin is 2 expansions older than Starsurge. I don't remember that ever being a hallmark of Balance playstyle, either. Dumping burst with as many buffs as you can get is hardly Balance specific.

Wait, what? I have no idea when you started playing Balance but "Boomkin" was a thing way, way before SS was introduced. I'm not sure if it was used in Vanilla but in TBC is was very common thanks to how Nature's Grace and PvP set bonus worked (+ Starfire actually hit quite hard) - it was common to kill people from 90 to 0 in a 0.1sec window

Always getting bogged down in the details - you can build around big crits without those crit specifically being Starsurge, but from Cata onwards those crits were starsurge. Boomkin was coined regarding huge crits in PvP, just as you describe Lappee - those big crits got shifted from Starfire onto Starsurge with it's introduction, and have now been removed entirely.

You yourself say that Nature's Grace & set bonus was used to cheese massive crits, which is the point I'm trying to make.

[Cyous]

they are trying to keep decimals out of the astral power bar.

[Nerxyrall]

Can somebody with theorycrafting knowlege (cyous *cough*) explain (in detail if possible) what the changes mean.

Was it a buff/nerf and in which scenarios respectivly?

LS/SW giving different Asp/s is really weird.
Is the >1target use LS still true?

And when du you use the lvl90 talent row now?
Before it was 2 targets ShootingStars ~ BoE. More targets ShootingS, less BoE...(BoA when you have a lot of downtime)
AC only if you needed burst(and/or FoE use).


Thanks @Everybody who has insights in that.

[Alame]

Can somebody with theorycrafting knowlege (cyous *cough*) explain (in detail if possible) what the changes mean.

Was it a buff/nerf and in which scenarios respectivly?

LS/SW giving different Asp/s is really weird.
Is the >1target use LS still true?

And when du you use the lvl90 talent row now?
Before it was 2 targets ShootingStars ~ BoE. More targets ShootingS, less BoE...(BoA when you have a lot of downtime)
AC only if you needed burst(and/or FoE use).


Thanks @Everybody who has insights in that.

1. Reversion of DoT buff they gave us a while back - Moonfire total periodic damage 440% -> 400%, Sunfire 330% -> 300
2. ~14% increase to Rating -> % mastery ratio
3. Change of SW/LS AsP generation from both @ 4AsP/s to SW @ 5.3 AsP/s & LS @ 4.8 AsP/s
4. Reduction in AsP gains from level 90 talents

From my perception it looks like the minimum number of targets for Shooting Stars to overtake BotA is the same / slightly lower, Lunar Strikes are less favourable now in single-target scenarios than they were before, and DoTs are slightly weaker. Doesn't look like there's any significant playstyle changes.

[Starsurge87]

It's a pretty potent AP generation buff

With BoE as talent, SW goes to 10 per cast (vs. 8.4) and LS goes to 15 per cast (vs. 14)

Should make FoE uptime much better since straight wrath spam now generates much more AP/S

In addition, with inc and BoE we generate 37.5 AP per SW+LS (vs. 33.6) this almost makes Starsurge + the two empowered casts cancel out during incarnation (fun for that last week of HFC)

[Deleted]

I quite dont get the point in saying our mastery is "crappy"

As i read it, it basically buffs the %-dmg of almost all spells we push, except our dots and unempowered builders. So how exactly is that crappy? Sure, its not outstanding, but "crappy" is something else to me.

[Deleted]

I quite dont get the point in saying our mastery is "crappy"

As i read it, it basically buffs the %-dmg of almost all spells we push, except our dots and unempowered builders. So how exactly is that crappy? Sure, its not outstanding, but "crappy" is something else to me.

it is "crappy" because it loses a ton of value when we use Fury of Elune, on top of being the weakest stat (together with vers) even when we don't cast FoE

[Deleted]

it is "crappy" because it loses a ton of value when we use Fury of Elune, on top of being the weakest stat (together with vers) even when we don't cast FoE

So, just the scaling is the issue and the fact, that it doesnt affect a talent, which iam no fan off anyways?

I can live with that

[thilicen]

So is FoE the go-to talent for pve dps on 110? Looks like a real interesting talent to have on the action bar..

[Lucrece]

So, just the scaling is the issue and the fact, that it doesnt affect a talent, which iam no fan off anyways?

I can live with that

It's the only talent you'll be using on any fight that doesn't involve a single target the whole time, which are basically nil. Most of the fights involve more than one target, so you'll take FoE regardless.

Stellar Drift is trash, and NB is only better single target.

If you're not using FoE, you're shooting your performance in the foot, so be aware of that.

[Tyze]

Yeah I'm hyped to try FoE to it's potential

[Deleted]

If you're not using FoE, you're shooting your performance in the foot, so be aware of that.

I just dont like the mechanic of it. If it were a simple cd that i can fire&forget for ~80AP or whatever, then sure. But to "channel" that thing through and lining up moonmoon and AC and what not else, is not my thing. Especially not if a Firemage or Unholy DK pushes 2 buttons on cd and do the same or even more dmg without the hassle you have with that talent, so i hope they will redesign it into a simple aoe cd with fixed costs and duration.

[Kyanion]

I just dont like the mechanic of it. If it were a simple cd that i can fire&forget for ~80AP or whatever, then sure. But to "channel" that thing through and lining up moonmoon and AC and what not else, is not my thing. Especially not if a Firemage or Unholy DK pushes 2 buttons on cd and do the same or even more dmg without the hassle you have with that talent, so i hope they will redesign it into a simple aoe cd with fixed costs and duration.

I think that might be causing the disconnect on the ability. It is a fire and forget it ability such as Blizzard is now for mages. You have a lot of Arcane Power and you plunk down a FoE. If things move you can use the ability again to quickly shift the circle of the ability to where the enemies go. But the main upside is laying it down and then firing off a lot of spells to continue to generate AP so it lasts longer.

I'm personally not a big fan of the spell either but the other talent options are kind of weak right now.

[Deleted]

I just dont like the mechanic of it. If it were a simple cd that i can fire&forget for ~80AP or whatever, then sure. But to "channel" that thing through and lining up moonmoon and AC and what not else, is not my thing. Especially not if a Firemage or Unholy DK pushes 2 buttons on cd and do the same or even more dmg without the hassle you have with that talent, so i hope they will redesign it into a simple aoe cd with fixed costs and duration.

they. wont.

[Deleted]

You'll be using NB for most raids. Only a few encounters actually allows you to utilize FoE properly.

[Tandris]

They need to drop the damage on FoE and make it scale with mastery, that would probably fix this entire mess with mastery still being our worst stat (even though it's supposed to be our best)

[lappee]

Always getting bogged down in the details - you can build around big crits without those crit specifically being Starsurge, but from Cata onwards those crits were starsurge. Boomkin was coined regarding huge crits in PvP, just as you describe Lappee - those big crits got shifted from Starfire onto Starsurge with it's introduction, and have now been removed entirely.

Thats because the details are just plain wrong.

You yourself say that Nature's Grace & set bonus was used to cheese massive crits, which is the point I'm trying to make.

Not quite what I said, we didn't need crits to inflict massive damage on our opponents in that timeframe.

[Xandrigity]

So do these shift in AP generation help up or hurt us or is it all the end in the same?

[Lahis]

My reaction to this AP generation nerf:

[Lucrece]

My reaction to this AP generation nerf:

AP generation didn't get nerfed, do you even read?

The nerf was to dots (which IS retarded, but whatever it's time to accept they're not good at tuning).