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  1. #261
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I know plenty of people who regretted becoming parents. Its anecdotal, but to deny this is a possibility is a tad absurd.

  2. #262
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    Occam's razor it - what other factors are at play in that time frame
    Thousands, literally. Everything changed in our life in the last 30-40 years: all kinds of technology, economy, society, mobility, culture, immigration patterns... For example, this difference could be partially explained by increased immigration flows from sexist countries, so there are a lot of foreign families here that discriminate against their female members more than people in 70-s in the US did.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Thousands, literally. Everything changed in our life in the last 30-40 years: all kinds of technology, economy, society, mobility, culture, immigration patterns... For example, this difference could be partially explained by increased immigration flows from sexist countries, so there are a lot of foreign families here that discriminate against their female members more than people in 70-s in the US did.
    Except that, as the data says, this is happening in all countries - including those "sexist countries" in the third world, which by the way are also behind on all the technology, mobility, culture stuff (not to mention those things also affect men, who are relatively happier)

    However, feminism has been a factor globally throughout that time frame, and that is the factor that specifically and universally affects women

    It's not hard, it's not complicated, it's maybe not "nice" but it's just true; just like evolution for a catholic, to understand the truth you have to give up on the false quasi-religious paradigm in which you were raised, and to which you are still emotionally attached

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    I mean you can be insulting and hysterical if you want, I get that science offends your irrational beliefs, but that is the logical (and rather obvious) explanation for the observed phenomenon
    Prove it then, don't backpeddle now... And your cute little assumptions about my mood can be left out, thanks.

    Prove it to me, that feminism and more freedom for women to choose their lifestyle not involving staying at home to be a mother, is to blame for their unhappiness, and I will concede everything, and accept it as fact, regardless what my personal feelings for it are.

    I mean I don't particularly like abortion, and I'd personally want to avoid it, but that won't stop me fighting tooth and nail for anyone who needs one, has the choice available to them.

  5. #265
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Prove it then, don't backpeddle now... And your cute little assumptions about my mood can be left out, thanks.

    Prove it to me, that feminism and more freedom for women to choose their lifestyle not involving staying at home to be a mother, is to blame for their unhappiness, and I will concede everything, and accept it as fact, regardless what my personal feelings for it are.

    I mean I don't particularly like abortion, and I'd personally want to avoid it, but that won't stop me fighting tooth and nail for anyone who needs one, has the choice available to them.
    Choice is bad

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Prove it then, don't backpeddle now... And your cute little assumptions about my mood can be left out, thanks.

    Prove it to me, that feminism and more freedom for women to choose their lifestyle not involving staying at home to be a mother, is to blame for their unhappiness, and I will concede everything, and accept it as fact, regardless what my personal feelings for it are.

    I mean I don't particularly like abortion, and I'd personally want to avoid it, but that won't stop me fighting tooth and nail for anyone who needs one, has the choice available to them.
    Again, I'm pro-abortion as well, and always in favour of 100% equal legal rights for all, that's not what feminism is

    You're asking for proof: I could go through the biology, the hormones, the way primate societies are organised, the reasons why women are not like men, how even infant boys and girls differ - and thus why forcing women to behave like men would not work out well for 90% of women

    But really it won't convince you because you don't want to be convinced, you have irrational beliefs that you won't allow to be challenged

    I know better than to argue with creationists, enjoy always finding women's unhappiness a mystery

  7. #267
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    Except that, as the data says, this is happening in all countries - including those "sexist countries" in the third world, which by the way are also behind on all the technology, mobility, culture stuff (not to mention those things also affect men, who are relatively happier)

    However, feminism has been a factor globally throughout that time frame, and that is the factor that specifically and universally affects women

    It's not hard, it's not complicated, it's maybe not "nice" but it's just true; just like evolution for a catholic, to understand the truth you have to give up on the false quasi-religious paradigm in which you were raised, and to which you are still emotionally attached
    Because there are changes common for most countries. Since this is happening in all countries, and feminism isn't really a thing in all countries (for example, feminism in Saudi Arabia is in a pretty vegetative state), then you HAVE to conclude that feminism is not a reason for it, or, at least, not the only one. Not to mention that mainstream feminism strongly differs between countries, and, say, American mainstream feminism isn't even close to Japanese mainstream feminism.

    You just say that it is feminism, because it matches your world view. If you were to be objective, you would have to say that you don't know the real reason - nobody knows, most likely, people can only make rough guesses. But you aren't interested in truth, are you? You are interested in "winning the argument", one of the most pointless goals in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  8. #268
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    WTF is your comment about? If we look at the graph, then yes, we can see that happiness among women has declined since 70-s, while for men it remained pretty much the same. I've never said otherwise, you have some reading comprehension problem?

    And no, somehow explaining it by feminism IS desperate.

    Really, Xarim, you are resembling a religious fanatic at this point. Mumbling the same nonsense in every thread, without even bothering to try to understand what other people are saying.
    Well I think Xarim's point is perhaps the prescription of career success it turns out does not provide happiness as much as was promised. As a simple fact, career success is both relative and fairly rare. How many men even achieve career success? I mean how many aren't just work a day and average people "just getting by?"

    Now we are reduced to prescribing "More career focus!" and using Wow Gee Wiz inventions to avoid the obvious problems of fertility being a thing we women only have when we are young.

    I think we should set the gender aspect aside and re-evaluate the merits of Betty Friedan. "Are careers even fulfilling?" Seriously we can't all be great success and this seems like a prescription for an elite social class and not a real solution for ALL WOMAN who most of us are not going to be CEO's (Very few of us will be) just like few men will be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  9. #269
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Well I think Xarim's point is perhaps the prescription of career success it turns out does not provide happiness as much as was promised. As a simple fact, career success is both relative and fairly rare. How many men even achieve career success? I mean how many aren't just work a day and average people "just getting by?"

    Now we are reduced to prescribing "More career focus!" and using Wow Gee Wiz inventions to avoid the obvious problems of fertility being a thing we women only have when we are young.

    I think we should set the gender aspect aside and re-evaluate the merits of Betty Friedan. "Are careers even fulfilling?" Seriously we can't all be great success and this seems like a prescription for an elite social class and not a real solution for ALL WOMAN who most of us are not going to be CEO's (Very few of us will be) just like few men will be.
    I think career decisions should be made by individuals based on what they themselves want. People who let others decide what careers to pursue are very likely to be unhappy with their careers, since no one knows you as well as you.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  10. #270
    You could also simply not have children?

    People still behave as if not having a child is worse than genocide.

  11. #271
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    I think career decisions should be made by individuals based on what they themselves want. People who let others decide what careers to pursue are very likely to be unhappy with their careers, since no one knows you as well as you.
    "Career's" are things wealthy people have. Most woman have these things called Jobs. Because economic forces mean most woman, like most woman, must work full time just to stay solvent. Most of the human race do not have much if any choice in what they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    Again, I'm pro-abortion as well, and always in favour of 100% equal legal rights for all, that's not what feminism is

    You're asking for proof: I could go through the biology, the hormones, the way primate societies are organised, the reasons why women are not like men, how even infant boys and girls differ - and thus why forcing women to behave like men would not work out well for 90% of women

    But really it won't convince you because you don't want to be convinced, you have irrational beliefs that you won't allow to be challenged

    I know better than to argue with creationists, enjoy always finding women's unhappiness a mystery
    We are far more developed than any other primate species = irrelevant to the point.
    Yes, we have physical differences, our brains aren't the same, psychologically we are not the same on average. All this stuff overlap. There isn't anything that a man can, that a woman can't, in terms of psychology. We're not machines with pre-plotted programs. There's an average because it's what happens most of the time, and you know what, that's a-ok.

    You're not presenting anything challenging. You cherry-picked your own statistics, I found a huge resource that I'm going to slog through at a later point because I have stuff to do today other than sit here. I can look at a graph and attached words all day, that won't prove anything when said words don't provide any meaningful information as to why the graph looks the way it does.

    And I'm not even a feminist. I'm an egalitarian. Just yesterday, I was reading some articles, and I've decided that men should most definately have the option for severing their legal responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy-and-subsequent-child akin to women having an abortion. I was on the fence about it before.

    I will change my stances when adequate proof is presented, not a second before.

  13. #273
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    "Career's" are things wealthy people have. Most woman have these things called Jobs. Because economic forces mean most woman, like most woman, must work full time just to stay solvent. Most of the human race do not have much if any choice in what they do.
    Being forced to work full time doesn't mean you can't find a field in which you enjoy working full time and can progress in your career.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  14. #274
    Sometimes I think the could be "grandparents" want you to have kids, because they had to go through it, and now they think you should. However, it isn't their life, so remember to say screw what they want. They can adopt a child themselves. Hah
    "Punching things is cool and stuff. Pow bam bam bam Pow. O yah... God I'm eloquent." -Dalai Lama

  15. #275
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    Being forced to work full time doesn't mean you can't find a field in which you enjoy working full time and can progress in your career.
    Of all the trite polyannish crap I've ever read.

    You are either speaking from a position of incredible socio-economic security (Ironically just like Betty Friedan was) or your intentionally being obtuse, probably both.

    Consider the working lives of people not inheriting vast sums of wealth, men or woman, most people work jobs PURELY to pay bills and most have no savings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  16. #276
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Of all the trite polyannish crap I've ever read.

    You are either speaking from a position of incredible socio-economic security (Ironically just like Betty Friedan was) or your intentionally being obtuse, probably both.

    Consider the working lives of people not inheriting vast sums of wealth, men or woman, most people work jobs PURELY to pay bills and most have no savings.
    What most people do hardly reflects what most people can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  17. #277
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    What most people do hardly reflects what most people can do.
    In theory everyone can live in rainbow sunshine land, be billionaires, work at Nintendo (With their dads) and also everyone will have a mansion.

    Get your head out of fantasy land and come back to Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Of all the trite polyannish crap I've ever read.

    You are either speaking from a position of incredible socio-economic security (Ironically just like Betty Friedan was) or your intentionally being obtuse, probably both.

    Consider the working lives of people not inheriting vast sums of wealth, men or woman, most people work jobs PURELY to pay bills and most have no savings.
    Bingo, this is the thing spoiled sheltered "champagne socialists" don't seem to realise

    Work isn't a voluntary fun camp for self-actualisation: it can be hard and stressful but necessary to pay bills

  19. #279
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    In theory everyone can live in rainbow sunshine land, be billionaires, work at Nintendo (With their dads) and also everyone will have a mansion.

    Get your head out of fantasy land and come back to Earth.
    You must be fun at parties.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    You must be fun at parties.
    Actually I would much rather have a drink with Theo than you; there is honesty and thought in her posts, whereas you just come off as really passive aggressive, fake-happy and obtuse
    Last edited by mmoca8403991fd; 2016-08-23 at 06:29 PM.

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