Legion Dungeons and Raids Schedule, August 22 Hotfixes

[Taolaw]

I'm sorry but you're wrong. You get those things regardless of when you sub. You're still going to do the leveling content, professions, etc. The only thing you'll miss out on is some Artifact grinding, but if you're an average player that doesn't matter. If you're an average player you're not going to grind that bullshit incessantly anyway. Still going to do the class hall and campaign story stuff and world quests. But since you can't even get to the end game for average players until a month after the game launches / finish it until a month after that, why would you EVER pay for those months sub time? For five mans? Nah. At any point after LFR launches, whether it's just the first wing or it's the second wing or whatever, I'll spend however many hours leveling, jump into some five mans, and then run LFR and explore the world. Pay them $30 for no end-game while the hardcore raiders pay them that same $30 and get their end game? Fuuuuuuck that. Make LFR share a lockout with Normal/Heroic/Mythic so that the idiots in abusive guilds won't feel forced to run it and release it at the same time as everyone else, don't penalize the average player for having better shit to do than plan their schedule every week around raid time.

So you're going to skip out on an entire month of leveling, class halls, world quests, rep, gear, whatever just because you can't run LFR when normal/heroic raids release? Get over yourself dude.

[RamGuy]

As one who have enjoyed playing a Demon Hunter a lot, it's sad to see the nerf to Demon Blades. I do understand why Blizzard want to avoid Demon Blades to be the best choice for maximum DPS as many players will feel it really dumb and lacklustre to be "forced" into picking a talent that actually makes Havoc Demon Hunters less "active" to play.

The talent has always been a rather awkward one, as it encourages the player to be less active during fights. But I for one did enjoy it a whole lot. I don't think the endless spamming of a single ability, in this case "Demon's Bite" is anything special and I do certainly not find it anything more engaging than simply using "Demon Blades" as Demon Blades at least gives me the opportunity to keep my focus elsewhere without me having to keep mashing that one button on the keyboard for no other reason that it has to be pushed in order for my rotation to function.


Many will argue that such a awkward talent should never be the most popular option in that talent tier. And I wholeheartedly agree. But I don't think this nerf is doing it any good, not at all. Now Demon Blades are pretty much reduced into not being a valid pick at all. With this nerf "Prepared" becomes to clear choice in terms of DPS, especially when you take into consideration "Momentum" which you unlock on level 106. There is no way you, as a Demon Hunter can still chose the Demon Blades talent and still be viable when it comes to DPS performance.

And that's just wrong if you ask me. The various options should be pretty much equal in terms of DPS potential so it's up to the players to choose whatever fits their playstyle the most. The game should not punish you because you enjoy the more passive gamestyle that Demon Blades offer. If Blizzard feels that Demon Blades need to be inferior do to its nature, then it should not be a talent to begin with.


Talents should be balanced in terms of DPS potential, or be so unique compared to each other that they give distinct advantages in certain situations that players will be switching them up on the get-go depending on whatever content they are about to tackle within the game. But that's not the case here, with this nerf Demon Blades it no longer a viable option as Prepared is simply superior in every possible way in terms of DPS potential and Demon Blades does not bring any advantages compared to it, none at all.


It's a really awkward decision for Blizzard to make as well. Because it pretty much forces players that might have enjoyed Demon Hunters because of the more passive playstyle that Demon Blades offered into picking a talent that is the polar opposite. Prepared makes you bounce around all-over-the-place and it a really active talent compared to Demon Blades.


I don't know why they nerfed in the first place? Prepared was still a viable option, it was not like Demon Blades was vastly superior to it? Especially combined with Momentum at level 106 Demon Blades was not always considered to be the optimal choice to begin with. Now they've simply reduced it into not being a real choice for anyone that wants to be anywhere close to their class DPS potential.

[Nevcairiel]

So all 6 invasions are up all at once... do we know what's the reset timer? 2h still? 300% ramp up would dictate 6 invasions per hour.

Anyway, I'll know soon enough

Its still 2 hours as of now. Might accelerate further as we get closer to launch.

[EmperorMao]

don't penalize the average player for having better shit to do than plan their schedule every week around raid time.

So then find a guild that raids when you're at home? What a lazy generation.

[Trollfat]

Wait, people play the game just to do LFR and only LFR? Is there a group of players who also like to watch paint dry?

[mmorav]

Mastery: Absolution now gives 1.5% per point (was 1.4%).

0.1 really xD?

could've just made it stealth change and no one would bother lol

[ElDoorO]

Wait, people play the game just to do LFR and only LFR? Is there a group of players who also like to watch paint dry?

I fell into this group most of WoD although for the most part a.) I used gold for time since I had a ridiculous amount of gold and b.) I was unsubbed for something like 6-8 months because I got bored.

It's not "just" LFR so much as I knew that this might be my last chance to rack up a shit ton of gold for Legion. If Legion doesn't work out then I'm done with WoW but by investing this mild amount of time I hope to make my Legion experience that much better.

[WoWDontu]

Man, so many people losing their shit over $15. If its gonna break the bank, should consider not playing.

[kroniks]

As one who have enjoyed playing a Demon Hunter a lot, it's sad to see the nerf to Demon Blades. I do understand why Blizzard want to avoid Demon Blades to be the best choice for maximum DPS as many players will feel it really dumb and lacklustre to be "forced" into picking a talent that actually makes Havoc Demon Hunters less "active" to play.

The talent has always been a rather awkward one, as it encourages the player to be less active during fights. But I for one did enjoy it a whole lot. I don't think the endless spamming of a single ability, in this case "Demon's Bite" is anything special and I do certainly not find it anything more engaging than simply using "Demon Blades" as Demon Blades at least gives me the opportunity to keep my focus elsewhere without me having to keep mashing that one button on the keyboard for no other reason that it has to be pushed in order for my rotation to function.


Many will argue that such a awkward talent should never be the most popular option in that talent tier. And I wholeheartedly agree. But I don't think this nerf is doing it any good, not at all. Now Demon Blades are pretty much reduced into not being a valid pick at all. With this nerf "Prepared" becomes to clear choice in terms of DPS, especially when you take into consideration "Momentum" which you unlock on level 106. There is no way you, as a Demon Hunter can still chose the Demon Blades talent and still be viable when it comes to DPS performance.

And that's just wrong if you ask me. The various options should be pretty much equal in terms of DPS potential so it's up to the players to choose whatever fits their playstyle the most. The game should not punish you because you enjoy the more passive gamestyle that Demon Blades offer. If Blizzard feels that Demon Blades need to be inferior do to its nature, then it should not be a talent to begin with.


Talents should be balanced in terms of DPS potential, or be so unique compared to each other that they give distinct advantages in certain situations that players will be switching them up on the get-go depending on whatever content they are about to tackle within the game. But that's not the case here, with this nerf Demon Blades it no longer a viable option as Prepared is simply superior in every possible way in terms of DPS potential and Demon Blades does not bring any advantages compared to it, none at all.


It's a really awkward decision for Blizzard to make as well. Because it pretty much forces players that might have enjoyed Demon Hunters because of the more passive playstyle that Demon Blades offered into picking a talent that is the polar opposite. Prepared makes you bounce around all-over-the-place and it a really active talent compared to Demon Blades.


I don't know why they nerfed in the first place? Prepared was still a viable option, it was not like Demon Blades was vastly superior to it? Especially combined with Momentum at level 106 Demon Blades was not always considered to be the optimal choice to begin with. Now they've simply reduced it into not being a real choice for anyone that wants to be anywhere close to their class DPS potential.

Could not agree with you more! When I first read about the talent, I thought wow another way to dumb down the class. After playing with Demons Blade at 100 it feels perfect.

[Shudder]

What I got out of this is that if you're in the vast vast vast majority of players that will never do organized raiding or Mythic dungeons, there is zero point to subbing for Legion until a month after release. That's actually fantastic, money saved is money earned.

I'd hate to have a life where $15 isn't a trivial amount.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesnt seem that they are giving us more content, its more like they fragment it and deliver it later so there is illusion of constant updating, just like in wod. I dont get why are that raids available so late, and Nighthold, the same tier is available much more later.. Yeah its like wod - Highmaul and Blackrock foundry.

Yeah I liked the days where they gave us the raids without holding on to it for no reason. The 2 week bullshit was actually nice cause it gave us time to relax and level slowly and have some 5 man end game for a bit but 3 weeks is fucking pushing it. That's far too long.

[Trelyrien]

It's disappointing to see people continuously mention that Demon Blades is some sort of "crutch" for a good rotation playing style. Someone says "You can't handle a 2 button rotation". Clearly, you have not played a DH at 110. At 110 you are so busy hitting spenders that not having to hit a filler is an AWESOME thing. Unfortunately, as you can see, a little too awesome. And yeah, I assure you spenders will take up most of your GCDs at 110 (or at least did prior to this nerf). Between fel rush, fel blade, vengeful retreat, blade dance, eye beam, fel barrage, chaos strike, and throw glaive if you have a gcd to waste. Hopefully Demon Blades will still be strong.

[xZora]

Was the nerfs to Balance really necessary? We're struggling to perform in the top 50% of raid comps right now, and now we have Astral Power generation nerf & Moonfire/Sunfire 5% nerf? Meanwhile you buff Fire?

I'm not sure I currently see the logic behind this.

[fedas15]

So why does this post exclude the Guardian Druid changes in the recent hotfix?

[Kharahh]

Was the nerfs to Balance really necessary? We're struggling to perform in the top 50% of raid comps right now, and now we have Astral Power generation nerf & Moonfire/Sunfire 5% nerf? Meanwhile you buff Fire?

I'm not sure I currently see the logic behind this.

Check the math out - it's actually not bad. If anything, we got buffed.

Blessing of Elune now increases Astral Power generation by 25% (was 40%).

Spenders have had a buff on AsP given so that compensates for the loss from BoE
e.g. Lunar strike -- old 10 AsP + 40% bonus from talent = 14 AsP per cast. NEW is 12 AsP + 25% bonus from talent = 15 AsP per cast.


Blessing of An'she now grants 2 Astral Power every 3 seconds (was 2 Astral Power every 2.5 seconds).

This kind of is a nerf but we do not use this over huge amounts of time for it to "hurt" enough.

Lunar Strike now generates 12 Astral Power (was 10).
Mastery: Starlight bonus has been increased to 2%/point (was 1.75%).

Mastery is weak, yes, but this is still abit of a buff.

Moonfire and Sunfire DoT damage has been decreased to 50% per tick (was 55%).

Moonfire / Sunfire was simmed at roughly 15% of our damage.. 5 % is very small. Likely with the mastery buff it will lower the gap from 55 - 50.

Shooting Stars gives 4 Astral Power (was 5).

This was incredible already on long living multi-target fights.

Solar Wrath now generates 8 Astral Power (was 6).

BUff.

Developer's Note: We shifted some Astral Power generation from the level 90 talent row into the baseline spec. This both improves gameplay sub level 90 and reduces reliance on these talents at max level.

[Xjev]

Well slowing down the pace of content release is the new way of keeping us busy with same content...

[huldu]

Wait, people play the game just to do LFR and only LFR? Is there a group of players who also like to watch paint dry?

I believe there are quite a few people out there that does no raiding *whatsoever*, including LFR because it's garbage. This might change with L because they drop tier sets again.

My point is who the hell does raid anything but Mythic anyways? It's not raiding if it ain't Mythic. The other modes are just for filthy casuals DansGame

[ChakanDH]

People losing their shit over the demon blade nerf....its the possibility that you might generate 3 fury less than you did before. Sims put Prepared at best at 1.3% over demon blades(though likely Prepared will be better than that in practice), it's definitely not a dead talent now....

[Cosmic Janitor]

Okay Blizzard.. This has been a great pre-patch compared to the others. I really enjoyed the Broken Shore scenario, the cinematics were fantastic and the Invasions have been solid and given me lots of decent gear on alts and made me able to power-level low-level alts.

But this whole Khadgar quest-chain has been a total mess and a huge let-down compared to everything else. The first potion had a lot of great text and lore, but no voice-over and was not using the new dialogue system from Legion so I had to frantically read it in the chat window and most of the text simply went by too fast for me to keep up.

And then you decided to split the quest-chain, for what exactly? The last "portion" we got today was nothing. It was a tiny, non-engaging quest doing nothing at all. Then we get a few seconds with more text without voice-over to read in the chat and that's it. Why split the quest-chain like this at all when the last portion is done within 2-minutes? Feels really awkward and the entire quest-chain feels really lacklustre and underwhelming compared to everything else we've got in the Pre-Patch.

I'm more pissed they didn't even bother to voice the aftermath of the broken shore scenario for alliance, when they made a cinematic for the horde and Sylvanas. But then I'm not sure if I would be even more annoyed by Jaina if she were voiced there or during Kadghar's Dalaran introduction..

As for the raids.. just why? 3 Weeks is extremely long.. damn LFR only after 4 weeks? I wish Deus Ex MD and Legion had the release dates switched with one another :P.

- - - Updated - - -

Its still 2 hours as of now. Might accelerate further as we get closer to launch.

I can't really manage to clear all 6 sites in 2 hours as of yet, I don't see the point of increasing it even further to be honest...

[kamuimac]

Wait, what? You make no sense. If you are not interested in organized raiding or Mythic+ dungeons, you have all the reasons to start playing as it launches, because you've got everything unlocked except LFR (which opens at the same time as Mythic raids). The only reason LFR opens later than normal is so people don't "cheat" by getting easy upgrade right before going in normal or heroic. The other thing, the gated opening, is to make sure a raid that normally would have you progress for a month or two doesn't get cleared in LFR in an hour, that's all.

By playing Legion on the day it launches, it allows:

-Leveling experience, which is amazing this time around
-Professions, with quests which are tied to the leveling experience
-Dungeons, normal and heroic
-Suramar at 110
-Artifact unlocking and leveling
-Class hall and Campaign story which is really cool when you reach the end (story unique to your class)
-World Quest with rewards that can be better than LFR

"there is zero point to subbing for Legion until a month after release" - bullshit

Now, if you said: Since I'm only interested in logging in for LFR and logging off and paying 15$ a month for only that, yes, you are right, there's zero point. But I would add there's never been a point to ever play WoW if that's all you do.

what you will also get that you deliberately missed is :

-no flying
-huge server ques making game unplayable for first couple of weeks on high pop servers
-shitton of bugs not fixed in beta
-no lfr

+ all those things you listed will be there in future so for causal players theres no point subbing untill blizzard puts in essential things like flying and lfr and fixes bugs - 7.1 which probably will come in december will be quite a sweet spot to resub

[Saiona]

3 weeks of leveling,world quest,suramar grind, 3 full weeks of heroic dungeon grind and 3 gull mythic dungeon lockouts is plenty to do. I'll probably do it on 2 characters