More women should freeze their eggs and focus on their careers.

[May90]

Yet you are somewhat doing the same. Women who feel they should freeze their eggs and focus on their careers have the right to do so. If you don't work a job you like, take steps to try and change it. I get that there are boundaries, I live with them too. Women who don't want kids at all and style for careers have the right to do that too.

I'll say again, the economy is shit certain places, I don't live in one of them, so I can't know all the facts, but I'm not at all well off either, but that doesn't mean it makes people unhappy all the time. There are lots, and lots of factors that determine happiness, satisfaction and contentness (I think that's the word), money and kids are just 2 of them.

We don't, and never will, have total freedom. It just isn't feasible. Motherhood is something you do because you want to, or rather, it bloody well should be. It's one of the most life-changing decisions ever. You do it because it makes you happy. That's a selfish action, but it's lauded for the better both because of culture, social values, etc etc. Unless you want to tell me that you want kids because you should have kids, in which case I'm thoroughly appaled.

And please, stop using mental disorders as insults to other people, it makes you look stupid. If you wanna call someone dumb, call them dumb.

I think one of the problems here is that we, as humans, tend to always want more than what we have. No matter how well we are off, there is always something to improve upon. Some people get caught in the endless loop of misery, when they want to achieve something in their life, they achieve it, then immediately they start to want to achieve something else... They are never satisfied, never happy. It is a good trait, to want to move forward, but it can be pretty damning, if you never enjoy where you are at the moment.

A person that decides to devote their life to raising kids, can be miserable because of the lost career opportunities. A person choosing to focus on the career instead, can be miserable because of lack of kids or meaningful interaction with them.

Ultimately, a person just needs to determine what they want in life and move on that path, always striving for better, but never complaining about the present either. It doesn't take that much to be happy, as long as the person does what they think is right and enjoys what they already have.

Then, again, everyone has unique mentality, so maybe it isn't applicable to everyone.

[Halyon]

I think one of the problems here is that we, as humans, tend to always want more than what we have. No matter how well we are off, there is always something to improve upon. Some people get caught in the endless loop of misery, when they want to achieve something in their life, they achieve it, then immediately they start to want to achieve something else... They are never satisfied, never happy. It is a good trait, to want to move forward, but it can be pretty damning, if you never enjoy where you are at the moment.

A person that decides to devote their life to raising kids, can be miserable because of the lost career opportunities. A person choosing to focus on the career instead, can be miserable because of lack of kids or meaningful interaction with them.

Ultimately, a person just needs to determine what they want in life and move on that path, always striving for better, but never complaining about the present either. It doesn't take that much to be happy, as long as the person does what they think is right and enjoys what they already have.

Then, again, everyone has unique mentality, so maybe it isn't applicable to everyone.

Oh sure, greed is about the biggest vice of humans ever. However, people make their own decisions and have to learn from them. Making mistakes help us grow, but mistakes of others shouldn't dictate the rest of the people. That's why we try to develope more and more optins for people.

It's not as such an easy matter as well, people vary in their wisdom and will, and blah-blah. I do think that some people don't know how to be grateful for anything, regardless of their upbringing or circumstances...

[Seirith]

I'm honestly not sure wtf you're trying to say, but I never said women used to sit on their ass while the husband worked.

But most of them we're slaving away for wages either. They were the matriarchs of the household. They made sure the family was cared for. They made sure the children were fed, clothed, and safe. She made sure her husband knew he had someone to turn to when it felt like the world was against him. She and their children gave him a reason to get up every morning and go work that dead end job.

The problem with liberals nowadays is they demonize this type of woman as some slave.... Simply because she didn't decide to become some unhappy wage slave. Liberals think this type of woman doesn't accomplish anything in life. That's bullocks.

I look at some lonely, middle-aged female lawyer and I think "yeah, that's impressive I guess." Then I look at some woman with a couple of children. I can't help but notice these kids are clothed, educated, and healthy.

Then I realize that mother is more impressive than the female lawyer can ever be. She's done something I will NEVER be able to do. She has given the gift of life and helped assure that humanity lives on. While me or that lawyer slave away with nothing more than currency to show for it, that woman has personally influenced the future of the world by preparing the next generation to take the reins.

I find the lawyer more impressive personally. All people are different. Why do you care if someone has kids or not?

Also, what is the children she has become drug dealers and murders?

My HS best friend was raised in a middle class house, 2 married educated parents. She was very smart and extremely artistic until she got intro drugs and drinking at 16. She never went to college and drove her car drunk into a bus and did jail time. It is not like all kids turn out to be wonderful people that cure cancer or something else wonderful.

[Yvaelle]

Then I realize that mother is more impressive than the female lawyer can ever be. She's done something I will NEVER be able to do. She has given the gift of life and helped assure that humanity lives on. While me or that lawyer slave away with nothing more than currency to show for it, that woman has personally influenced the future of the world by preparing the next generation to take the reins.

Humanity is at no risk of going extinct due to lack of babies - plus she's succeeded by almost every woman and animal in history who had offspring: not so impressive.

The labour of a lawyer is rewarded with currency, but the work of the lawyer contributes to justice for all - an ideal upon which the greatness of society is predicated.

The lawyer contributes to what advances humanity out of the cave, into the future - she creates justice. Justice is the stability upon which society can grow. That is a far greater contribution than making more babies - everyone does that - people often even do it by accident.

The currency the lawyer collects isn't what she works for, it is just a means to support her lifestyle - so she can focus on work, she works because she finds it rewarding in some way: as do all professionals. Money isn't a very good motivator, the middle and upper-middle class is often motivated by self-improvement, or the recognition of others, or the desire to contribute to something greater.

That doesn't mean that motherhood isn't extremely challenging, respectable, worthwhile, or rewarding - it's all those things - but you don't need to denigrate professionals just to elevate the sacredness of motherhood as being superior to all other life choices. If anything, at this point, we need lawyers more than mothers.

[dez1216]

I thought about this and discussed it with the hubby a bit last night and my theory is that women are less happy now because everyone thinks it's their business to comment on every facet of a woman's life. At least in Canada/US and probably many countries in Europe, don't know for sure if that trend carries over in every country, but I suspect it does to varying degree's. And while women's lives were always subject to scrutiny in most of human history, now it's not just people who you personally know who offer up opinions, we can read them everywhere all the time. Not only that, but in a time where women have more choice in how they live their lives than ever before, it doesn't matter what choice you make, someone, somewhere has an opinion on it and they think you're wrong for choosing it.

Before women joined the workforce (since that's what we're looking at) women were expected to stay home, be mother's, wives and housekeepers. This was what most of society expected from you, so if you did that (regardless of whether you personally wanted to or not) you were doing it right. You made the correct choice and judgement then stemmed from things like who threw the best cocktail party, who had the most clean and meticulous home, who made the most delicious and beautiful looking cakes and who had the most polite and accomplished children. The judgement was there, but everyone's expectations on your role as a woman was clear.

Nowadays everyone's expectations for women are different and you can't win with anyone. This thread alone proves my point. Want to be the stay at home mom and have the 2.5 kids and clean the house and make lunches and dinners and Saturday morning brunch for your family? Someone will tell you that you're not really working, that you're lazy for not having a job (regardless of the financial circumstances of your family), that your kids won't socialize properly if they aren't in daycare or pre-school, that you're setting yourself and family back without your extra income, you're a helicopter mom, that you have your kids in too many activities, you have them in too few activities, what if your marriage fails? You weren't working or going to school so you're going to be stuck as a single mom leeching off your ex and working 2 shit jobs to make ends meet, and won't someone think of the environment? We're so overpopulated already, just adopt a kid! Feminism made it so you don't have to be a slave to your husband and family, why do you still choose to? You must be abused! The list goes on and on.

If you decide (or don't have a choice) that you're going to work (with or without kids) the judgements are there too. We've seen some nice examples in this thread. Oh you don't want kids? Why? What's wrong with you? You're ignoring your biological function! Oh you'd rather be a doctor, or business woman than have kids? Well you're probably too bitchy and selfish anyways since you won't sacrifice for kids. Oh you are having kids? So you're taking maternity leave? Well if you're just going to take time off to have kids then why are you even bothering to work? Can't afford them without a job? Well maybe you should not have kids if you can't afford to have you stay home. Oh you just want to keep working because you love your job? Then why are you having kids? If there isn't a parent (mom) home to take care of the kids then they're going to be all messed up from spending all their time in daycare or with family members. You aren't a good parent if you can't spend all your time with your kid and the fact that you're willingly choosing not to just makes you worst of all. You're basically abusing your kids by choosing work over them. Oh you are staying home? Wow... what a lazy leech, you know being a stay at home mom isn't really work and you're really shooting your family in the foot by not having the extra income...

Is it really that surprising that women are unhappy when this is the kind of shit you hear and read day after day? Hell, you can avoid the internet and you'll still get totally fucking random people who come up to you at the grocery store to offer their opinion on what you're fucking up on today. That's not even touching on other women's issues that are constantly judged. Like I said, women have always been judged and scrutinized, but now the judgement and scrutiny is everywhere and from everyone and no matter what choice you make, you fucked up. You can try not to care, but even the women with zero fucks to give for anyone else's opinion will get worn down on at least a few of the issues and judgements that might apply to them. Even if it's just that their just god damn tired of hearing about it. That's why I think women today on average are less happy.

[Grym]

I find the lawyer more impressive personally. All people are different. Why do you care if someone has kids or not?

I also think the Lawyer is more impressive.

Lawyers are educated professional, hard work alone without talent still unlikely to get you there.

Mother with a few children, they are everywhere especially council estate, if anything they are quite a sight I rather
not having to see. If they are all seem well dress and classy, maybe I think think she isn't doing too bad, but still the mother sill lack of that professional skill that I would see as impressive. And no mothering a few children Indo not find impressive, if she has a professional job on top of that then sure, but without that, first thing I would think is they better be paying for the children without leeching on society, otherwise I will be looking down on them instead.

People cannot even provide for themselves should 't even breed