Sooo, where do Blood DK tanks lie now?

[Hashcrypt]

The things that matter are still there. They did WAY too much damage with Bloodboil so it needed to be nerfed.
The self healing is what makes them OP, and they still are very much OP.
Still the best tank for 5 man progression and very strong for Mythic raiding.

Meanwhile Vengeance is doing ridiculous damage, with competing self-healing, and over the top mobility.

Yea, BB was def breaking the game, I can see that now.

[Deleted]

The things that matter are still there. They did WAY too much damage with Bloodboil so it needed to be nerfed.
The self healing is what makes them OP, and they still are very much OP.
Still the best tank for 5 man progression and very strong for Mythic raiding.

The best tank for 5 mans and 5 man mythic + dungeons at the moment is prot warriors.
The best tanks for raids if still out there but at the moment from what I've played on alpha there are a lot of movement mechanics. I.e a lot of mechanics that work like Imp mar'goks tank debuff that you had to run out for. Which if you remember BDK's were awful at. Even though they were one of the strongest tanks and warrior the weakest, warriors were brought over BDK's.

Not only do the current nerfs, loweer our damage substantially they nerf our sustainability. HS nerf means that the talent that increases it's damage and adds a healing affect to it is nerfed. Nerfing our passive healing. Then the BB huge nerf, which is our huge source of damage also nerfs our heroic trait which adds 25% leech when Blood shield is up.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Meanwhile Vengeance is doing ridiculous damage, with competing self-healing, and over the top mobility.

Yea, BB was def breaking the game, I can see that now.

Who said it was breaking the game? That kind of knee jerk reaction is why it deserves to get nerfed. If you can't look at it with a clear mind you aren't able to contribute to feedback.

[Zoldor]

Damn...Starting to think powerleveling the Warrior is going to be the right move. Really wish i knew if I was tanking for sure or not in my raid. The worst part about DH is all the returning players seeing the Tanking and thinking oohhh I want to tank now and DHs are so good, while they haven't played in years, lost positional awareness and will be bored like the 9 previous expansions as soon as a wall is hit in raiding and it will be the replace the tank game.

Well so far I have Blood, Druid, DH and soon to be warrior ready to roll at 100 if I'm tanking. I have a pally too, but I just can't get into the vibe and I know our other tank will 100% be a pally or well I 100% assume he will be.

[Resurgo]

Not counting the two DKs I've long had at 738+, Warrior if at 714, Monk at 705, and DH at 716. Nerf away, I'm ready to switch to whichever tank helps the raid more.

[Freedom]

The things that matter are still there. They did WAY too much damage with Bloodboil so it needed to be nerfed.
The self healing is what makes them OP, and they still are very much OP.
Still the best tank for 5 man progression and very strong for Mythic raiding.

Sshhhh... if you logic and reasonable too loud in a class forum, you're liable to be eaten by a class QQ Grue.

To everyone else: Bloodboil as 30-35ish% of my damage over a H HFC run was ridiculous, and last I checked 39% is NOT 50%.

[Casterbridge]

Sshhhh... if you logic and reasonable too loud in a class forum, you're liable to be eaten by a class QQ Grue.

To everyone else: Bloodboil as 30-35ish% of my damage over a H HFC run was ridiculous, and last I checked 39% is NOT 50%.

Eh people are more upset that yeah Bloodboil did to much damage, but overall blood DKs did not, at least not compared to all tank dps, yet they got slapped with a double DPS nerf, both blood boil (technically needed) and previously heartstrike (not needed) had the blood boil nerf been complimented with some improvement people would have been much less upset...

Throw in the other gripes, worse mobility of pretty much all tanks, low utility, and it's kind of like eh why bother.

People may be overreacting but still the Devs handling is pretty or this was, again, pretty poor.

[redfella]

Meanwhile Vengeance is doing ridiculous damage, with competing self-healing, and over the top mobility.

Yea, BB was def breaking the game, I can see that now.

DH self healing is far, FAR from a DKs. Have you ever even played the spec?

[Resurgo]

Not to mention, as Tyvi pointed out:
Blood Boil was our snap aggro threat tool. One that isn't tied to Runes, Global Cooldowns, and our own survival.

- - - Updated - - -

DH self healing is far, FAR from a DKs. Have you ever even played the spec?

Actually, I'd be curious to know the real comparison. On meters, DK's showed up more, but take all that passive healing out, and see if that remains the case? We "look" overpowered on healing meters because of Bone Shield. Played right, a Demon Hunter has just as much self healing, and that's when it's needed, not a whirling boneshield that's only there for upkeep. If you've read anything Troxism has put out, you'd know that much of the small heals and the leech stuff that's out there tends to go towards overhealing anyways. DK's and DH's both use reactive healing mechanisms.

Like Death Knights, they have their own sort of "Death Strike" heal. You hold it for when you need it.

[redfella]

DH Soul Cleave does not scale from damage intake, SC costs more resources than DS as well.

You can also bank up to 3 DS for certain mechanics, while you can only bank one full SC and another one that is only 40 pain out of 60 max.

[q71black]

Look at the patch notes on the blizzard site have been updated.

- Blood Boil's damage has been reduced by 39%.

i can't post links yet sorry.

[Resurgo]

DH Soul Cleave does not scale from damage intake, SC costs more resources than DS as well.

You can also bank up to 3 DS for certain mechanics, while you can only bank one full SC and another one that is only 40 pain out of 60 max.

Of that, I'm not arguing. What I am curious about, however, is how it all plays out in a raid scenario. All tanks are naturally getting more healing from the healers. So how much of our DK self healing is effective? vs How much of a DH's is effective?

DH self heal is based on attack power, so the more damage they put out, the less they need 3 Death Strikes, as one will be suffice. Especially considering how much less our current iteration of Death Strike shields and heals for compared to the past...
Their Demon Spikes go up in value with more Mastery, so it might come to question, how much self healing will they need?

[Milocow]

can anyone confirm whether DS heals ignore blood shield absorbs just like how it ignores boneshield absorbs?

[redfella]

Of that, I'm not arguing. What I am curious about, however, is how it all plays out in a raid scenario. All tanks are naturally getting more healing from the healers. So how much of our DK self healing is effective? vs How much of a DH's is effective?

DH self heal is based on attack power, so the more damage they put out, the less they need 3 Death Strikes, as one will be suffice. Especially considering how much less our current iteration of Death Strike shields and heals for compared to the past...
Their Demon Spikes go up in value with more Mastery, so it might come to question, how much self healing will they need?

The AP coefficient of Soul Cleave is atrocious, only 900% AP, with 5 fragments it goes up to 2150% -- but that's spends all the fragments obviously and you can't really rely on having 5 out for every SC.

Compare to that of Warriors who have Ignore pain with the talent and a proc closing in near 10 000% AP for a 15s absorb (while without procs it is around 3000% AP after recent nerfs iirc) - and you can stack those.

Now the reason why our Death Strike is still awesome is that no matter how far the expansion goes and the gear gets better, it will always be as relevant as it is since it has a base % and it directly scales from damage intake.

Even if we got rid of Bone Shield showing up as absorb and the trickling heals, DS outpaces all SC healing combined in an encounter where you are taking heavy hits. Our trickling heals will also be a small help for healers in encounters where we struggle to stay at 100% HP, it's also nice that the trickling scales from the amount of targets we're fighting - it's small, but still helpful.

Now with DH mastery buffs, they can mitigate more damage than us when they activate DS, but we're not yet at the point where they can reach 100% uptime like we can with Bone Armor, leaving them vulnerable at times. But that was beside the point - I was replying to one of the Doomcallers here repeating a stupid mantra of "DH healing rivals DK healing".

Ps. It's been a consensus for a good while that DH will most likely be the worst raid tank of the bunch, they -- as the DK -- rely on reactive healing so they are relatively spiky, their mitigation isn't up 100% of the time and you basicly offset bigger hits with it instead of trusting to have X% mitigation up all the time (like DK does). On top of that, we have a bigger health pool that helps a lot against the spikyness, as well as more frequent self healing since we can DS more often (and for more) than they can SC.

DH needs some health pool tuning, an SC buff or more mastery/DS buffs to be relevant for top guilds. For regular guilds, every tank is viable tbh.

[Saybel]

Developers stated clearly before Alpha that Blood Boil is going away from the rotation, becoming a threat button like Monk's Keg throw.

Can you provide any evidence of that?

[Deleted]

Dead, on the floor.

[redfella]

Developers stated clearly before Alpha that Blood Boil is going away from the rotation, becoming a threat button like Monk's Keg throw.

Never heard of this before, and Monk's lost their Dizzying Haze so this statement makes even less sence 'cos of that.

Edit: Found it, the blog is speaking that we won't need BB since we have Blood Strike / Death's Caress applying BP. The post is from 2015 and was by Mags and not Blizz devs.

[Insane Buttocks]

Ive been thinking about switching to a DK from my warrior for legion progression. Our other tank wil be a DH. Are these recent nerfs that terrible? Ive been really enjoying playing my DK the past two weeks. Very refreshing

[redfella]

We're still the best 5man tank, and we're perfectly viable for raiding.

[Saybel]

Trying to pick a tank based on strength is like playing the lottery. You probably aren't going to win. Play whatever you find more fun.