Why the Horde is not considered bad in lore?

[Deleted]

So lets look at every event that has ocured, we always go back to the horde being the ones who started it.

ner'Zhul let the burning legion in and poison the horde with mannoroths gaze.

this lead to the lich king and so on and so forth.

Gul'Dan was the leader of the awks not long ago and they followed him whilst knowing he was using fel magic(watch the film)


Kael'thas sunstrider was obviously a Belf who wanrted to use the sunwell for more arcane power.

Thrall trusting Garrosh led to the events of MoP and WoD, again both awks.


The horde always causes the problems yet they are seen to have no part in the events which they have caused.

This is very interesting, do you think its intentional or coincidence?

[Aleksej89]

Every bait must be taken.

It is because blizzard does not want horde players to be labeled as monsters.

Objectively speaking the horde (all versions of it) has committed a metric shit ton of atrocities and genocides.

[Darkeon]

Okay.

/10Hordebadguys

[Deleted]

WC3 and WoW Horde are the good guys. Other hordes are evil.

[Gradingus]

So by your logic, all the humans doing bad stuff makes the Alliance bad?

[Zeusy]

why would an entire faction be bad because of a few who went bad?

[FertsBlert]

It's called grey and grey morality neither side are angels the Horde are slightly more atrocity given but that is a function of a slightly more savage outlook, some of the Alliance actions would give Hilter a hate boner.

[Twistedelmo]

Horde is as evil as the Alliance.

[PenguinChan]

I'm fairly certain people paint the Alliance in the 'good light' and the Horde in the 'bad light'. Both sides have done terrible things, Horde extremely more-so, and I don't know anyone but people blindly faithful to either side saying otherwise.

[Aucald]

One of the more compelling aspects to the story of Warcraft is that both factions encompass both good and bad morality-wise. For every example of an "evil" member of the Horde you have an Alliance version that is much the same, albeit with different circumstances. The crux of the matter swiftly becomes one of context and exposure - and the manner in which the story is presented depends on which faction you're actively playing, much like the way it is in real life. If it were as clean-cut as the Horde being evil and the Alliance being good then people wouldn't really argue incessantly about it. Historically speaking both factions have done terrible things, and they have done great things. I don't expect this will change anytime soon.

[Arrashi]

why would an entire faction be bad because of a few dozens of thousands who went bad?

Made it a little more accurate.

[Feanoro]

The Horde isn't bad because Metzen says so. Whitewashing them has been a thing since WC3, no matter what they do; Sylvanas could be shown literally putting babies in a meat grinder with the full support of the Horde (Garrosh acted totally solo, guiz!), and still we'd hear how they're good and misunderstood.

TLDR, bad writing.

[Al Gorefiend]

Depending on which faction you play the other faction is shown as the bad guys.

[masterjc]

WC3 and WoW Horde are the good guys. Other hordes are evil.

Agreed
Also gikneans can be considered as bad. And kaldorei might be abit not so good

[Zaydin]

Because Metzenite.

[Ianus]

cause metzen and his green mary sue said so

[WhiteEagle888]

The Horde are not inherently bad, they just do their own thing. They are more neutral in things of good and bad I would assume.

[Oakshana]

Last I checked, making poor choices did not make you evil. Not innately anyway.

Ner'zhul wasn't always evil. And I think at the end of his life, prior to becoming the Lich King, he didn't think he was evil. Initially he was doing what he thought was best for his people, and made some bad choices as to who to listen to. And, partly he was tricked. He tried to do what was right in the beginning. Got duped into serving the legion and sort of had no choice at a certain point. I do think he craved power and recognition... but I think it was more wanting validation and feeling important. I mean, if it wasn't for him, the Frostwolves would have never escaped to Azeroth. Becoming dead and then undead and bound to a suit of armor probably had a huge impact on who and what he was and changed him.

Gul'dan has always been selfish, self serving and manipulative for his own ends. But you really cannot lump what he and Ner'zhul did as representative of the Horde on Azeroth. And the orcs that drank the blood of Mannoroth didn't exactly go into it know 100% what would happen. Again, they were tricked into believing the Draenei were their enemy and drinking the blood would give them the power to defeat them. Sure the choice was theirs... but if they had known it would be being bound to a demon, they might have chosen differently.

Kael'thas wasn't evil. Not initially. He was a good man, and tried to do right by his people. But in the process of trying to do what was right for them and help their addiction, his addiction to power took over. It also didn't help that humans had been total dicks to the Blood Elves and treated him and his people like trash.

But, really... for all this, with this sort of argument you could say equally the same on Alliance races.

Arthas lust for vengeance consumed him to the point of damnation and ultimately became the true evil of the Lich King.

The Night Elves were originally responsible for bringing Sargeras into this world and causing most of this mess in the first place.

Aegwyn is responsible for her own hubris by defeating the Avatar of Sargeras, but not being mindful to his spirit entering her, and ultimately possessing her son, Medivhe. Who in turn is responsible for letting blood crazed orcs into this world in the first place.

Neither side is good, nor evil. They are being capable of making poor choices, worse mistakes and yet at the same time being the greatest of heroes. You cannot judge a species by a handful of the people that represent it. Otherwise we would all be damned.

That said, watch this. While I don't necessarily agree 100% with it, it does provide a very interesting perspective on Garrosh and why he did what he did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_pyF3bM6Rg

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The Horde isn't bad because Metzen says so. Whitewashing them has been a thing since WC3, no matter what they do

Fair point... but to clarify, Thrall and the idea that the Horde were not evil WAS Metzen's idea. He was the story and creative directory for WC3.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Ner'zhul wasn't always evil. And I think at the end of his life, prior to becoming the Lich King, he didn't think he was evil. Initially he was doing what he thought was best for his people, and made some bad choices as to who to listen to. And, partly he was tricked. He tried to do what was right in the beginning. Got duped into serving the legion and sort of had no choice at a certain point. I do think he craved power and recognition... but I think it was more wanting validation and feeling important. I mean, if it wasn't for him, the Frostwolves would have never escaped to Azeroth. Becoming dead and then undead and bound to a suit of armor probably had a huge impact on who and what he was and changed him.

He was raving evil at the end before KJ got him He embraced draenors destruction as part of his legacy.

[Aucald]

He was raving evil at the end before KJ got him He embraced draenors destruction as part of his legacy.

According to the novelization of "Beyond the Dark Portal," the Skull of Gul'dan seemed to corrupt Ner'zhul in some manner, whispering in his thoughts and driving him to heights of egomania and megalomania. Prior to its influence Ner'zhul was essentially a deathseeker almost completely immobilized by despair - although I'm sure Teron Gorefiend and Neltharion's influence weren't very helpful, either.