Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Celfydd]

Where are you finding current sims?

SimulationCraft results are in the first sticky thread in this forum.

[Deleted]

Have they even tested Master Poisoner with/without the changes? It was shit before, and it still probably wouldn't have been taken with the changes.

Fuck is going on?

[lunariongames]

Have they even tested Master Poisoner with/without the changes? It was shit before, and it still probably wouldn't have been taken with the changes.

Fuck is going on?

tbh fam they prob don't care. they're prob only trying to make it look like they care but low key want you to play their shiny new pirate spec.

[Fheng]

Death from Above will no longer refund excess combo points if the player is using Anticipation.
Assassination
Envenom damage has been increased to 60% Attack Power per point (was 50%).
Deadly Poison instant damage has been increased to 17% Attack Power (was 14.2%).
Rupture damage has been decreased to 25% Attack Power (was 30%).
Agonizing Poison now stacks 5 times (was 4).
Developer's Note: We shifted some damage from Rupture into poison affects to increase the significance of poisons in the rotation and help poison-oriented talents better compete with bleed-oriented talents.

So agonizing poison is an extra stack now and rupture was dropped off by 5% of attack power im not sure how much of a nerf that is, So does this change anything? Do we drop exsang and go for a more poison style spec and favoring mastery again over our crit build or do we still scale way too good off crit to go master>vers=Crit or something along those lines? Not sure if these buffs/nerfs even matter at all to the current talent set up of the spec just wanted to know what everyone else thought.

[kumarshah]

Death from Above will no longer refund excess combo points if the player is using Anticipation.
Assassination
Envenom damage has been increased to 60% Attack Power per point (was 50%).
Deadly Poison instant damage has been increased to 17% Attack Power (was 14.2%).
Rupture damage has been decreased to 25% Attack Power (was 30%).
Agonizing Poison now stacks 5 times (was 4).
Developer's Note: We shifted some damage from Rupture into poison affects to increase the significance of poisons in the rotation and help poison-oriented talents better compete with bleed-oriented talents.

So agonizing poison is an extra stack now and rupture was dropped off by 5% of attack power im not sure how much of a nerf that is, So does this change anything? Do we drop exsang and go for a more poison style spec and favoring mastery again over our crit build or do we still scale way too good off crit to go master>vers=Crit or something along those lines? Not sure if these buffs/nerfs even matter at all to the current talent set up of the spec just wanted to know what everyone else thought.

Problem is Master Poisoner was nerfed to be 30% more damage instead of 40%.

[Fheng]

oh i missed that part, thanks i totally read right over it lol. That kinda sucks, was hoping for more styles of the spec to be viable, they just can't seem to do that i guess.

[Eazy]

Players: We want Assassination to be competetive with other spec!
Blizzard: We made Assassination spec to be based on the poisons and bleeds!
Players: Thanks, we're nice.
Blizzard: We nerfed bleeds because it's OP.
Players: We want it to be more focused on poisons!
Blizzard: Okay, we nerfed rupture and add some DMG to poison abilities... and nerfed master poisoner.

[Deleted]

Players: We want Assassination to be competetive with other spec!
Blizzard: We made Assassination spec to be based on the poisons and bleeds!
Players: Thanks, we're nice.
Blizzard: We nerfed bleeds because it's OP.
Players: We want it to be more focused on poisons!
Blizzard: Okay, we nerfed rupture and add some DMG to poison abilities... and nerfed master poisoner.

I'm gonna wait judging this til sims are out. But honestly. Some part of me is hoping that it turns out assassination is worse off then before and scales worse with poisons. That would be hilarious

[Fheng]

Players: We want Assassination to be competetive with other spec!
Blizzard: We made Assassination spec to be based on the poisons and bleeds!
Players: Thanks, we're nice.
Blizzard: We nerfed bleeds because it's OP.
Players: We want it to be more focused on poisons!
Blizzard: Okay, we nerfed rupture and add some DMG to poison abilities... and nerfed master poisoner.

I love you eazye lmfao what a great post! i'm still laughing at this, like this is 100% blizzard and they're doing it on other specs too

[Jaronicity]

The amount of disappoint I feel is overwhelming. I was excited to see them change the damage around only to be kicked thoroughly and decisively in the crotch multiple times.


Is this real life?

[omeomorfismo]

...
this is still a buff
before we had 0.275*ap*1.4=0.385*ap every 2 sec plus 0.142*ap*1.4= 0.1988*ap every proc
now we have 0.275*ap*1.3=0.3575*ap every 2 sec plus 0.17*ap*1.3= 0.221*ap every proc
plus the envenom buff of 0.1*ap
we lose 0.0275*ap of dot damage to gain 0.0122*ap, with only 2 proc of dp every 2 sec we do pratically the same damage, every other proc is more deadly poison damage, pretty simple to achieve :|

[Gilor]

I'm gonna wait judging this til sims are out. But honestly. Some part of me is hoping that it turns out assassination is worse off then before and scales worse with poisons. That would be hilarious

I'm going to be interested in the sims also, and whether they produce a better figure with gear scaling. After a lot of dummy testing following the hotfix it seems they did exactly what they said on live - overall numbers remain pretty much exactly the same as they were just with a different mix of sources (though with the exsang/hemo build Rupture still remains the top source.) The MP/AP build still seems noticeably behind the EX/HE build for me anyway. Hard to imagine that this produces scaling that will cover the 20% we're behind combat in T19 sims but guess we'll have to see.

[Zeph76]

In my own little dreamworld this would be ideal :
-Revert Exsang to its previous state and make it baseline
-Make hemo baseline
-Nerf bleeds buff poisons a bit more and make them scale with mastery just like poisons do
-Replace hemos missing talent with a bleed buffing one so we can choose between bleeds and poisons
-Replace Exsang missing talent with a reworked Crimson Tempest (Requires Combo Points, 45sec CD, Apply Rupture to all targets in 15 yd radius)

[Krille]

In my own little dreamworld this would be ideal :
-Revert Exsang to its previous state and make it baseline
-Make hemo baseline
-Nerf bleeds buff poisons a bit more and make them scale with mastery just like poisons do
-Replace hemos missing talent with a bleed buffing one so we can choose between bleeds and poisons
-Replace Exsang missing talent with a reworked Crimson Tempest (Requires Combo Points, 45sec CD, Apply Rupture to all targets in 15 yd radius)

Aaaaand that's why you're not hired at Blizzard Jesus that would be OP.

[Kaedis]

In my own little dreamworld this would be ideal :

Honestly, just adding Venomous Wounds back in would work. Cut the damage on Rupture and Garrote significantly (like, 2/3rds on Rupture), but add the Venomous Wounds proc, where each time your bleeds tick, you deal instant poison damage to the target. The poison spec is suddenly about poisons again, even if it comes via bleeds (which are really Feral's shtick). Mastery is good again, and stacking mastery makes Envenom better, which correspondingly makes Crit better. Exsang doesn't even get murdered by this, since making your bleeds tick faster also makes them proc VW faster.

[Krille]

Honestly, just adding Venomous Wounds back in would work. Cut the damage on Rupture and Garrote significantly (like, 2/3rds on Rupture), but add the Venomous Wounds proc, where each time your bleeds tick, you deal instant poison damage to the target. The poison spec is suddenly about poisons again, even if it comes via bleeds (which are really Feral's shtick). Mastery is good again, and stacking mastery makes Envenom better, which correspondingly makes Crit better. Exsang doesn't even get murdered by this, since making your bleeds tick faster also makes them proc VW faster.

I don't get this "poisons spec should be about poison". You know "poison" makes you bleed more right? Even in the real world?

[nightmann]

Honestly, just adding Venomous Wounds back in would work. Cut the damage on Rupture and Garrote significantly (like, 2/3rds on Rupture), but add the Venomous Wounds proc, where each time your bleeds tick, you deal instant poison damage to the target. The poison spec is suddenly about poisons again, even if it comes via bleeds (which are really Feral's shtick). Mastery is good again, and stacking mastery makes Envenom better, which correspondingly makes Crit better. Exsang doesn't even get murdered by this, since making your bleeds tick faster also makes them proc VW faster.

That makes too much sense, so no beuno.

[Zeph76]

Aaaaand that's why you're not hired at Blizzard Jesus that would be OP.

That's why it would be in a dreamworld :P. With proper nerfing/buffing in the numbers it would be balanced. Just nerf rupture to the ground. So mastery scaling bleeds wouldnt sound so op. They way I imagined it is that bleeds and poisons will end up dealing about the same percentage of your total dps. Plus the only reason I want exsang and hemo as baseline is because I dont want an extremely dull rotation.

Honestly, just adding Venomous Wounds back in would work. Cut the damage on Rupture and Garrote significantly (like, 2/3rds on Rupture), but add the Venomous Wounds proc, where each time your bleeds tick, you deal instant poison damage to the target. The poison spec is suddenly about poisons again, even if it comes via bleeds (which are really Feral's shtick). Mastery is good again, and stacking mastery makes Envenom better, which correspondingly makes Crit better. Exsang doesn't even get murdered by this, since making your bleeds tick faster also makes them proc VW faster.

That's also a very good way to make mastery relevant again and save exsanguinates burst.

[Kaedis]

You know "poison" makes you bleed more right? Even in the real world?

Only hemotoxins. There are a LOT of types of toxins. Hepatotoxins destroy your liver and related systems. Necrotoxins just flat out kill cells (ex. brown recluse venom), causing tissue necrosis. Endotoxins essentially just cause massive immune responses. Neurotoxins generally cause paralysis in one of a few ways, usually resulting in respiratory arrest. Most venoms are neurotoxins, actually.

[TheRogue]

This is still a net buff to poison though right? I dont care which way the spec plays, but this is still a step forward in terms of damage.