1. #4041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    AP generation didn't get nerfed, do you even read?

    The nerf was to dots (which IS retarded, but whatever it's time to accept they're not good at tuning).
    I lost my will to live after the first line.

    Took me while to get back up to read the rest.

  2. #4042
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Thats because the details are just plain wrong.


    Not quite what I said, we didn't need crits to inflict massive damage on our opponents in that timeframe.
    I say the boomkin name is tied to a playstyle involving stacking buffs for big hits - I talk about Starsurge because that's the most recent & relevant incarnation of the playsytle. You get tied down on the details of me specifically mentioning Starsurge and say I must be wrong because this playstyle (which exists by your own admission) existed before Starsurge did.

    Fact of the matter is by splitting our return on the AsP/damage conversion from a 1GCD window into a 5.5s, 3-cast window, this playstyle has been effectively killed for all but extremely long-duration buffs. Crit benefits this playstyle significantly more than Haste does, and the end result is a devaluation of Crit.
    Last edited by Alame; 2016-08-23 at 08:40 PM.

  3. #4043
    Quote Originally Posted by Alame View Post
    I say the boomkin name is tied to a playstyle involving stacking buffs for big hits - I talk about Starsurge because that's the most recent & relevant incarnation of the playsytle. You get tied down on the details of me specifically mentioning Starsurge and say I must be wrong because this playstyle (which exists by your own admission) existed before Starsurge did.
    I never said the underlying meaning is wrong but when you go into specifics then you better get them right. Its like saying Tomato and Banana are the same when you actually mean they're both fruits.

  4. #4044
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    I never said the underlying meaning is wrong but when you go into specifics then you better get them right. Its like saying Tomato and Banana are the same when you actually mean they're both fruits.
    "You're wrong, but you're not wrong, and while I'm at it here's a condescending comment that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever."

    Just like all of our conversations Lappee, this will end with me walking away because you're too arrogant to have a real discussion with. Latching on to any possible detail and clinging to it to claim you're right regardless of how much you've misunderstood is childish.

  5. #4045
    So this mastery change should effect our pvp template, correct? If we're given "x" amount of mastery rating in pvp, this change should increase our mastery template then I assume.

  6. #4046
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlucia View Post
    So this mastery change should effect our pvp template, correct? If we're given "x" amount of mastery rating in pvp, this change should increase our mastery template then I assume.
    Yes, conversion rates apply to both formats.

  7. #4047
    Quote Originally Posted by Alame View Post
    "You're wrong, but you're not wrong, and while I'm at it here's a condescending comment that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever."

    Just like all of our conversations Lappee, this will end with me walking away because you're too arrogant to have a real discussion with. Latching on to any possible detail and clinging to it to claim you're right regardless of how much you've misunderstood is childish.
    I was with you in the previous (long drawn) argument with lappee, but in this case you don't really have a leg to stand on. You said "SS crits with stacked buffs are why we got the Boomkin in the first place" and the fact is that statement is wrong. People (and not just lappee) told you it's wrong and then you started a pointless argument of "you're bogged down to the details". The statement as you put it was just wrong. You might have meant "big crits", but you didn't say that (so it's not his misunderstanding). Let it go and move on.

  8. #4048
    How about instead of complaining/debating historical context of boomkin, we discuss the recent tuning changes and what it means for Legion?

  9. #4049
    Quote Originally Posted by Alame View Post
    I say the boomkin name is tied to a playstyle involving stacking buffs for big hits
    I know earlier we were talking about the origins of the word boomkin and some of the first useage. I remember a clip from something that I loved that I think was created in late Vanilla, at least the video I remember is 9 years old and got reposted a few times. I'll just link the clip of it.



    Went digging a bit more: “Escape from Orgrimmar”, was released on January 2nd 2008 I remember seeing preview videos for it as early as 2006. So this puts the term late vanilla early TBC.
    Last edited by Kyanion; 2016-08-23 at 10:55 PM.

  10. #4050
    Quote Originally Posted by Alame View Post
    "You're wrong, but you're not wrong, and while I'm at it here's a condescending comment that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever."

    Just like all of our conversations Lappee, this will end with me walking away because you're too arrogant to have a real discussion with. Latching on to any possible detail and clinging to it to claim you're right regardless of how much you've misunderstood is childish.
    If by real discussion you mean "I can use details that are incorrect as long as what I'm trying to say is right" then yeah, we really can't.

    I'm trying to be factual to the best of my ability, thats all.

  11. #4051
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    it is "crappy" because it loses a ton of value when we use Fury of Elune, on top of being the weakest stat (together with vers) even when we don't cast FoE
    Versatility should still be above crit(since neither is affected by the hotfixes), so half our secondaries are below it.

  12. #4052
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Versatility should still be above crit(since neither is affected by the hotfixes), so half our secondaries are below it.
    With the change, we're now looking at 1:Haste- 2:Vers- 3:Crit=Mastery? Am I understanding that right?
    I'm a Kitsune! Not a cat, or a mutt!

  13. #4053
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Versatility should still be above crit(since neither is affected by the hotfixes), so half our secondaries are below it.
    What are the stat weights in the end? Cyous' guide has crit over versa (the two being very close though).

  14. #4054
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    Vers was never better than crit, and it wont be until you get a bunch of crit. I think you want crit to be ~5k rating ahead, but I can't give you an exact number right now, will need to run some sims to find out.

  15. #4055
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    Vers was never better than crit, and it wont be until you get a bunch of crit. I think you want crit to be ~5k rating ahead, but I can't give you an exact number right now, will need to run some sims to find out.
    Oh. So we're still at what is was prior to the hotfix with Haste>Crit>Verse=Mastery?
    I'm a Kitsune! Not a cat, or a mutt!

  16. #4056
    This seems to be a slight dps boost to the 890 ilvl single target sim I ran on askmrrobot using Inc, BotA, and NB. For my sim, MF and SF only did a combined ~15% of my damage, so the nerf there is only 1.5% of of the total damage. However, I cast enough LS and SW to gain an extra ~300 AP that resulted in 7 more SS to result in a small net gain of damage.
    Last edited by Lights90; 2016-08-24 at 12:12 AM.

  17. #4057
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramelch View Post
    What are the stat weights in the end? Cyous' guide has crit over versa (the two being very close though).
    Check his T19/34 trait weights on page 188(at 20 posts). Versa isn't just ahead, it's nearly 20% better.

  18. #4058
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Check his T19/34 trait weights on page 188(at 20 posts). Versa isn't just ahead, it's nearly 20% better.
    His guide on the official site says otherwise (updated the same day as the post you mention). It doesn't factor in T19, but that's irrelevant for now anyway.

    Stat Weights (Normalized) - Weighted 70% / 15% / 15%
    Haste (1.00)
    Intellect (0.93)
    Critical Strike (0.71)
    Versatility (0.69)
    Mastery (0.56)

    And in the week he said: "To keep it simple. Get as much Haste and Intellect and possible. Try to keep Versatility close to Critical Strike. Mastery is meh, so try to avoid it." so I guess it's the above that counts for him?

    Anyway, new stuff means new sims are needed to get an accurate picture.
    Last edited by Adramelch; 2016-08-24 at 01:01 AM.

  19. #4059
    Doing quick math the nerfs seem to be a slight buff. Correct if I'm wrong. If anything, is this not just making Haste more valuable now , as even with mastery buffed emp. youre looking at roughly .25% increased damage (not really much):

    AsP
    LS_old 14
    LS_new 15
    SW_old 8.4
    SW_new 10
    Last edited by Kharahh; 2016-08-24 at 01:38 AM.

  20. #4060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharahh View Post
    Doing quick math the nerfs seem to be a slight buff. Correct if I'm wrong. If anything, is this not just making Haste more valuable now , as even with mastery buffed emp. youre looking at roughly .25% increased damage (not really much):

    AsP
    LS_old 14
    LS_new 15
    SW_old 8.4
    SW_new 10
    Haste most certainly generates more AP as of the new change, which makes it even more valuable in my eyes especially if you are running a specc where maintaining FoE is the focus. Still very interested in knowing how maintaining FoE is going to look when haste gets high enough that FoE consumes AP at a much higher rate.
    Last edited by thilicen; 2016-08-24 at 08:52 AM.

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