Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
14
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,555
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Funny you should mention this, because that's entirely false. Blizzard gave us the name N'zoth at Blizzcon before Cataclysm was released, but the name never actually showed up in-game until Dragon Soul--and then only when Yor'sahj invokes his name. It was the players who made a big deal out of N'zoth.
    He's the guy behind everything in Cataclysm, instead of the ACTUAL main villain, Deathwing. It just deflates him entirely.

    N'zoth's influence isn't subtle like Yogg-Saron or C'thun's was, where you hear only whispers of their power and their servants only exist in the deepest, darkest reaches. You've got old god nonsense all over Cataclysm, but none of it is compelling. The twilight's cult were a bunch of laughable, largely inept stooges, the faceless, which had previously been mysterious, rarely seen enemies, were paraded around everywhere. All the while Deathwing, whom we thought would be built up as this grand, scheming villain, is just a lap dog with no coherent plans and astoundingly little presence in the expansion.


    People can say what they will about Arthas being "too prevalent" in WotLK, but I think he was around just about the right amount. When you saw him, it was impressive. You knew he was the guy holding all the strings in his story arc. When he popped up, he sent you running or outright killed you.

    Deathwing popped up here and there in Cataclysm, but his roles either reeked of something he should have had some underling do (like dealing with Rhea in Badlands; Deathwing dealing with things should mean HALF A ZONE is gone, not just a cave being slightly toasted) or stuff he was just negligent about. Like in Dragon Soul. Flying around, spitting fireballs at the airships (which they were somehow able to survive) and taunting us, POINT BLANK, when he could have just annihilated us all.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    I realise I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but I'm honestly getting a bit tired of hearing that "WOTLK was the greatest expansion ever ergmagherrrrd" mantra that seems to be prevalent throughout the WoW community (although it still takes second place in the annoyance competition with the "everything but Vanilla sucked because it was too easy" adage). Hence, I thought I'd outline some of the shortcomings of the fabled expansion to remind people that it, too, had many things that sucked bigtime.

    1) Most of the quests in zones like Grizzly Hills, Fjord, Borean, and Sholazar were completely disconnected from the main story, which would have been fine as standalone plot arcs had they not been, for the most part, boring and anticlimactic, not to mention cliche. Just for comparison, every single new zone in Cataclysm, for example, absolutely blew all of Northrend out of the water when it came to plot and aesthetics.

    2) The two top level zones were almost completely identical in aesthetics with very few visual variations throughout. This was consistent with the lore of the zones, but failed to make them any less of an eye-sore after a few months of seeing more of the same every single day.

    3) Crystalsong, arguably the most beautiful zone in the Northrend, had virtually zero content. Now I'm not sure where exactly I saw this, but I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a thriving questing zone like all the others but Blizz decided to cut content before release, possibly due to lack of resources (WOD flashbacks anyone?).

    4) Yogg'saron was squeezed in seemingly out of nowhere, and met a highly unimpressive and unimportant end for something that is apparently the root of (almost) all evil on Azeroth.

    5) Flying was available at lvl 77, allowing players to fly over all of the seemingly looming, menacing threats in Icecrown and Stormpeaks, taking away much of the "darkness" and "danger" behind them.

    6) The entire expansion was pretty predictable, from start to finish, in that we knew we would eventually get to and kill Arthas. No plot twists aside from Wrathgate, which again didn't impact the overall story though.

    Overall, I am not trying to say that WOTLK was a bad expansion by any means, nor that it wasn't *better* than, say, WOD, but when people over-exaggerate and go "oh it was the best thing that ever happened to WOW, everything was 10/10", well, they're wrong. It was, for the most part, fun and new. But it was also a bit monotonous and stale in looks and storytelling.
    The Grand Tournament was supposed to be in crystal song, but was moved to Icecrown, because of the traffic it would cause in the zone.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    He's the guy behind everything in Cataclysm, instead of the ACTUAL main villain, Deathwing. It just deflates him entirely.
    This really is largely speculation. As I noted, there is literally one reference to N'Zoth anywhere in Cataclysm, and it's nothing more than Yor'sahj shouting his name.

  4. #64
    Deleted
    Wotlk was a letdown, I quit after clearing naxx after few days after the release.

    One recycled raid, two good raids (icc and ulduar) and one trash raid (the trial). All the dungeons were also a joke. Tbc was much better, they should have kept the hard dungeons like at the start of cata but once you give the masses the easy mode they won't like to go back to the hard mode.

    Tbc was the best expansion by far. The dungeons were HARD, I remember shattered halls where only the best could finish the instance; I remember being whispered every few minutes because I was one of the only tanks geared and experienced enough to finish it fast, the rest of the people were wiping in it for hours.
    I mean, tbc had his catch up mechanics too (nerfs every week basically) but it wasn't as bad as wotlk where everyone was able to complete every istance...

    Still, wotlk is better than cata, way better than wod (the worst xpac to date) and sighly better than pandaria. I think that what sucked about pandaria was the theme, stupid pandas in a land nobody cares off, the fucking chinese theme ruined everything.

    TBC
    WOTLK
    PANDARIA
    CATACLYSM
    WOD

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by nvn View Post
    Wotlk was a letdown, I quit after clearing naxx after few days after the release.

    One recycled raid, two good raids (icc and ulduar) and one trash raid (the trial). All the dungeons were also a joke. Tbc was much better, they should have kept the hard dungeons like at the start of cata but once you give the masses the easy mode they won't like to go back to the hard mode.

    Tbc was the best expansion by far. The dungeons were HARD, I remember shattered halls where only the best could finish the instance; I remember being whispered every few minutes because I was one of the only tanks geared and experienced enough to finish it fast, the rest of the people were wiping in it for hours.
    I mean, tbc had his catch up mechanics too (nerfs every week basically) but it wasn't as bad as wotlk where everyone was able to complete every istance...

    Still, wotlk is better than cata, way better than wod (the worst xpac to date) and sighly better than pandaria.

    TBC
    WOTLK
    PANDARIA
    CATACLYSM
    WOD
    So, you either hate WOW in general, or you're just a vanilla/TBC baby!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    3) Crystalsong, arguably the most beautiful zone in the Northrend, had virtually zero content. Now I'm not sure where exactly I saw this, but I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a thriving questing zone like all the others but Blizz decided to cut content before release, possibly due to lack of resources (WOD flashbacks anyone?).
    The zone is mostly empty because they intense lag created with mass questing and having Dalaran there. They should have put Dalaran in it's own little zone or something so the servers could handle things. They had more in the area and removed it because it was just killing things in Dalaran itself.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  7. #67
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jasontheking1234 View Post
    So, you either hate WOW in general, or you're just a vanilla/TBC baby!
    I started to play in vanilla so...I guess people starting from wotlk view it as a god tier xpac because they didn't play before. In reality is was pretty mediocre.

  8. #68
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Other Side of Azeroth
    Posts
    8,981
    Eh. Like everything ever made, LK had good and bad points. Frankly, your bad points aren't all that bad. A few comments:

    Crystalsong wasn't left alone because of resources but because putting Dalaran in the zone caused far too much lag for the zone to also have a thriving quest hub.

    Top 2 zones being similar... uh, no. Storm Peaks and Icecrown didn't really look alike. Did they get boring after months of being there? Sure, but anything would have, really.

    Predictability. Er, no shit. Guess what, we beat back the Legion in the upcoming expansion. No, really. Also, we all knew we were going to beat the Iron Horde. I KNOW! Amazing, isn't it...? Of course we knew we would beat Arthas. This is a design issue with all of these expansions. I was hoping we'd lose Draenor, barely escaping back through a portal with Yrel and a few survivors, Archimonde on our tails. That would have been a great lead in to Legion...but.... nope. We always win. That's a flaw, but not specific to Wrath.

    Flight at 78... Eh. I can see your point, but especially in the case if Icecrown they couldn't have had the teeming mobs on the floor of the zone and not let us fly. We'd never have been able to move. I kind of liked this aspect (OMG look at the masses of undead below..) but can understand your take. Storm Peaks was an attempt at making a zone more 3D if you will, with flight being needed to get places. I liked it, can see why some did not.

    Yogg... .I fully agree here. I didn't really like that we were there to beat back the Scourge threat and much of the expansion revolved around Yogg instead. Seemed odd.

    My issues were more about design - AOE Dps becoming a thing, Bring the player not the class being a big first step toward homogenization, LFG and related dailies starting the process of making guilds and communities less important, etc.
    Last edited by clevin; 2016-08-24 at 12:07 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by nvn View Post
    Wotlk was a letdown, I quit after clearing naxx after few days after the release.

    One recycled raid, two good raids (icc and ulduar) and one trash raid (the trial). All the dungeons were also a joke. Tbc was much better, they should have kept the hard dungeons like at the start of cata but once you give the masses the easy mode they won't like to go back to the hard mode.

    Tbc was the best expansion by far. The dungeons were HARD, I remember shattered halls where only the best could finish the instance; I remember being whispered every few minutes because I was one of the only tanks geared and experienced enough to finish it fast, the rest of the people were wiping in it for hours.
    I mean, tbc had his catch up mechanics too (nerfs every week basically) but it wasn't as bad as wotlk where everyone was able to complete every istance...

    Still, wotlk is better than cata, way better than wod (the worst xpac to date) and sighly better than pandaria. I think that what sucked about pandaria was the theme, stupid pandas in a land nobody cares off, the fucking chinese theme ruined everything.

    TBC
    WOTLK
    PANDARIA
    CATACLYSM
    WOD
    Odd how much you have played when you hated the 2nd best expansion on your list. Why stick it out for 6+ more years?
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    Also wrath had the worst excuse for a tier raid I've ever participated it: Trial of the crusader. That place was shit.
    Trial of the Crusader was what Player wanted for Years An Instance without Trash.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Odd how much you have played when you hated the 2nd best expansion on your list. Why stick it out for 6+ more years?
    I basically only played at the end of wotlk (during the final months of icc), at the start of cataclysm until firelands, two months during siege of orgrimmar, the first month of wod (then a few months letting the bot play and paying with the token).

    Even before wod I never actually paid since I was buying game time with golds from the chinese (even cataclysm and mop were bought with golds...), I only had fun playing the auction house.

    So I didn't stick for 6 years, I know this can sound strange to wow addicts.

  12. #72
    Bloodsail Admiral Nuvuk's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    1,201
    So what was the best expack to you? I think WOTLK was the best, but I seem to hear more often that BC was the best.
    Today is Beautiful and so are you, here's to having a wonderful day.

  13. #73
    Warchief Notshauna's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,082
    1. First of all, I can't speak for Sholazar on whether or not it's been well connected, but that simply isn't the case for the entry zones and to a lesser degree Grizzly Hills. Both the Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord place you in direct conflict with multiple major scourge leaders, the Tundra introducing Prince Valanar and facing Kel'Thuzzad whereas the Howling Fjord has you fight the Vrykul led by King Ymiron and Prince Keleseth. The Grizzly Hills mainly exists to foreshadow Ulduar but also has Arugal and the Worgen fighting for the scourge.

    2. They are very different, the Stormpeaks are snow-covered mountains littered with Titan ruins, whereas Icecrown is largely ice, with the exception of dark steel spikes marking the strongholds of the scourge. They are two zones that still stand up with modern standards in terms of design, as they are unique and evocative.

    3. Crystalsong was cut not because they ran out of time, instead it was cut because they found out that Dalaran was stressing their hardware, as anyone can attest who played Wrath. They couldn't have their most dense city float over a leveling zone as that would potentially crash servers.

    4. Yoggy was hinted at in every zone (except maybe Zul'drak), he just wasn't explicit until Ulduar hit. And I'd hardly call Ulduar unimportant, it was a major raid tier that is still widely considered the best ever made, the only problem with it is that it was too short and followed up with a bad raid tier.

    5. I could not disagree more. Flying gave Storm Peaks and Icecrown a sense of scale I've not seen anywhere else in WoW. Spending minutes flying to the top of Icecrown Citadel made the raid feel all the more epic, and Storm Peaks' titan buildings dwarfed everything else in the game. And that's just the buildings the existence of flying mounts allowed them to populate the ground of Icecrown with more hostile NPCs than would of otherwise been possible, really selling the raw power the scourge has. The Valley of Fallen Heroes is likely my favorite area in the entire game, and it simply could not exist without flying.

    6. Predictable isn't a good or a bad thing, the goal of the expansion was to kill the Lich King, to invade Icecrown Citadel. The rest of it was the part that could vary things up, and based off what your saying you didn't predict it. How can Yogg-Saron "come out of nowhere" and the expansion still be predictable? Those two things are mutually exclusive you can't say that one of the major antagonists came from nowhere and then say that the expansion had no twists.

  14. #74
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuvuk View Post
    So what was the best expack to you? I think WOTLK was the best, but I seem to hear more often that BC was the best.
    The best xpac was without doubt tbc, tbc was also better than vanilla.

    TBC had:
    -good dungeon and raid mechanics
    -good leveling compared to vanilla
    -good gearing progression, maybe a little too hard at the beginning
    -10/25 players raid instead of 40, karazhan is probably the best raid of the game even if it was only for 10 people.
    -not a lot of time between patches even if people were complaining about it (me too)
    -no hand holding and complex mechanics class wise, there were a lot of little things to pay attention too

    And it lasted less than 2 years.....

    This is said by a man that didn't like the theme of the expansion since I hated the look of every zone expect nagrand.
    Last edited by mmoc6cc9359bff; 2016-08-24 at 12:36 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    6) The entire expansion was pretty predictable, from start to finish, in that we knew we would eventually get to and kill Arthas. No plot twists aside from Wrathgate, which again didn't impact the overall story though.
    I am a big Warcraft 3 fan.

    Warcraft 3 starts with Arthas.
    Now WotLK ends the whole series.

    The story in Cata, MoP (lol) and WoD is just milking more money.

  16. #76
    The combat model was better that's all that matters. It's nice they are bringing is closer to Wrath in Legion. Healing was the worst it had ever been in Cata.

  17. #77
    Thank goodness OP is here to tell us whose opinions are and aren't valid, things could have gotten dangerous with all those people disagreeing!

  18. #78
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    I am a big Warcraft 3 fan.

    Warcraft 3 starts with Arthas.
    Now WotLK ends the whole series.

    The story in Cata, MoP (lol) and WoD is just milking more money.
    The fact that wow had 3 retarded expansions in a row didn't help.

    Cata=dumb excuse to remake azeroth (and they managed to ruin it when everybody just wanted flying and update graphics, I hate the new orgrimmar). Here started the mentality of the "you think you do but you don't"

    MOP=self explanatory

    WOD=retarded time travel to push the wow movie.

    Legion is probably the first expansion that makes sense since wotlk if you don't consider guldan but I don't know how I feel about illidan being basically revived.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by jasdasm View Post
    Trial of the Crusader was what Player wanted for Years An Instance without Trash.
    Yup. Which just go to show how bad armchair game designers are.

  20. #80
    Deleted
    Burning Crusade master expansion

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •