What's up with Jainas attitude towards the horde all of the sudden?(Invasion Spoiler)

[Combatbutler]

It may not necessarily end with her death, but let me say that such idea is probabily the only thing making any degree of sense if you want Jaina to do some messy shit. And let's be honest, it would give her some sort of progression and maybe the needed big push to make her truly reconsider her stance and feelings. Because, until now, Jaina faced indeed the consequences for her naivety but still none when it comes to her hatred. And I don't think she'll ever get over it as long she feels utterly entitled and justified, aka until she doesn't taste the consequences of what it means to utterly embrace that feeling.

P.S. inb4 "Filthy Horde fanboy wants to vilify Jaina because Horde can't deal with consequences herp derp"

Yeah she needs one big oh shit moment to get back on track, sack one horde village or so and have a straggling toddler survive it looking at her with horror and then she has an oh snap what have I done moment and puts the gears of war back a bit, showing mercy for civilians but being utterly merciless to combatants.

[Shibito]

of course it was an ambush.

It's already confirmed Mathias Shaw was replaced by Detheroc.
So much for Alliance Intel. cost the lives and the leader or organizations and nations.

Nono its all the hordes fault especially Sylvanas literally WORSE THAN HITLER.

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i would have purged thunderbluff just like they did theramore .

THen we would have to purge ironforge, major city for major city. U could purge the horde place in swamp of sorrows.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Nono its all the hordes fault especially Sylvanas literally WORSE THAN HITLER.

Mecha Hitler on steroids.

[Mehrunes]

God, this thread is funny. Jaina is seriously beating Sylvanas when it comes to this, which considered the latter's huge focus she's getting is absolutely impressive.

Just to clarify, you mean that it beats Sylvanas' threads in funniness, right?

I found that quite interesting. Just compare it to Khadgar's own line:

"Knowledge is power, but use it wisely is the key"

where Jaina's line is simply

"Knowledge IS power" in quite an angry tone.

Jaina is definitely Genn enough.

It may not necessarily end with her death, but let me say that such idea is probabily the only thing making any degree of sense if you want Jaina to do some messy shit. And let's be honest, it would give her some sort of progression and maybe the needed big push to make her truly reconsider her stance and feelings. Because, until now, Jaina faced indeed the consequences for her naivety but still none when it comes to her hatred. And I don't think she'll ever get over it as long she feels utterly entitled and justified, aka until she doesn't taste the consequences of what it means to utterly embrace that feeling.

Alternatively Jaina gets imprisoned for 10k years like Illidan before her for said messy shit, for Blizzard to keep her in storage for Warcraft 4 and until they realize what the hell do they want to do with the character.

P.S. inb4 "Filthy Horde fanboy wants to vilify Jaina because Horde can't deal with consequences herp derp"

If we are talking about appels, and i say i like that fruit and that fruit etc. But you still can beat that taste of it. It revers to the original subject...appels, aka proudmoore. For example: do you like appels, i do. And then you start a rant about bricks. So you are either a ***** or someone who can not read simple questions/remarks or both.

[Prothynyas]

Nono its all the hordes fault especially Sylvanas literally WORSE THAN HITLER.

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THen we would have to purge ironforge, major city for major city. U could purge the horde place in swamp of sorrows.

nah the horde purged theramore , and i liked theramore it had something special , now i cant enjoy it anymore
so thunderbluff is perfect , besides you guys never use it anyway

[Mehrunes]

I don't know how to feel about Jaina. On the one hand, I believe her character is butchered beyond any kind of redemption, due to awful writing mostly (imo), but on the other hand I wouldn't like to see her becoming a raid boss. We already lost well known, old characters (especially Vol'jin, WC3 nostalgia) that we knew for many years.
But since her development lately was awful....maybe killing her is the only way for this to end?

Or, since you mentioned Vol'jin, they could make her High Queen of the Alliance and let her do nothing significant for an expansion or five and only then kill her.

Mecha Hitler on steroids.

Theo, is that you? Oo

[Musta]

Sylvanas sounded a huge horn for the retreat, which the Alliance heard, they had the same amount of time to retreat.

If she hadn't sounded the retreat, the massive armies pouring out (that were even bigger than the one's they had just fought) would have eventually killed them and the Alliance would have had no warning at all, they would have been stomped over on two sides. The war against the Legion would have been lost right there with a great deal of the major leaders and faction champions (including us) dead. Varian and Mr Gilnian of January were kidding themselves that horde support would have helped them push to Guldan.

If you had listened, you would have known the legion had setup camp incredibly quickly and hundreds of demons were pouring out of the portals in a single moment. The horde literally had multiple spaceships firing down on them.

The moment Guldan summoned a dozen legion leaders like Jarraxus and frikkin Tichiondrius, the battle was already lost. The entire thing was an ambush, first the Argent Crusade fell for it, then we did and the only reason we made it out was because Sylvanas had the sense to realize the cause was lose.

I like you.

[Shibito]

nah the horde purged theramore , and i liked theramore it had something special , now i cant enjoy it anymore
so thunderbluff is perfect , besides you guys never use it anyway

dont burn our cows. #cowlivesmatter

[Prothynyas]

dont burn our cows. #cowlivesmatter

meat matters cowlives is a myth thou * jummy *

[Guntank17]

I am justifying her reason to attack and its good damn reason to attack while horde is doing what they want. Of course it was legit target but everyone is saying, how agressive Jaina was, while it was exact opossite.

You guys are probably giving the Lore writers way too much credit here.

It's probably some really stupid OOC reason that Jaina is being made to act like this --- say, because PvPers were whining about 'not being relevant to Lore anymore', or to set Jaina up for a Queen of Blades-like dynamic (because, y'know, it worked for StarCraft so it should work fine in WarCraft too, apparently), or because they wanted to pair Kalec with someone else (or get him back together with Tyrygosa) so he can have proper Blue Dragonflight children. Or some other OOC agenda the writers or Metzen seem to have for her.

Point is, the way Jaina is being written, I severely doubt they even have any sort of justification, or even any purpose, in mind aside from 'we need to throw Jaina away post-haste' or 'I hate Jaina and her stupid nose'.

[Deleted]

Or, since you mentioned Vol'jin, they could make her High Queen of the Alliance and let her do nothing significant for an expansion or five and only then kill her.

So the alliance should just continue to enjoy some horde expansions? If you want to make her High Queen could we at least get a scenario out of that? That worked so well to make Varian High King! It sure was a fan favorite and totally good story, hence the whole thing was dropped - after it exploded in their faces.

[baskev]

We know why she does it and how she feels.
The problem is that her feelings are her own fault.

The big question is always: Are her feelings justified?
And by looking at the things we as a player know, they aren't.

Play the pre legion quest. and kirin tor confirms that she has been true allot.

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might want to rephrase this.

Cause that particular incident, if i remember had the Lady of Theremore pulling a very hot headed member of the alliance out of hot water before things got taken too far.

It's also a nice example of how far Jaina's been twisted with very little reason. Yeah her city got blown up... she then decided to try and return the favor via massive wave and got talked down. Then she goes off on a capture/murder spree in her new city for basically the same reasons... and evenutally calms down. Now she's STILL pissed over that same incident (that she's sort of calmed down on repeatedly) toting the shit she blasted other characters over cause she for some reason can't get over the bullshit she clearly got over in the past cause... why? She's reminded of a poor little gnome and her old home?

You know what, the only reason she didn't do all this shit BEFORE is cause the devs have some ONE crazy faction leader per expansion limit. Wrath had Varimathras and a no-name throw away forsaken (no name cause you only learned it at the wrathgate), MoP had Garrosh, WoD kept Garrosh around, TBC had Kael... and vanilla had onyxia.

Yup. Nicely put. And i agree with you.
But was talking to someone else about something else.
And yes it looks like she is going to be the crazy one...But it might also be khadgar or medhiv...yes you read that right :P

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If she doesn't know what her troops were doing during the Cataclysm she's the worst leader in Warcraft history.




Considering that I already replied to it and asked you to show me saying Jaina has no reasons to feel the way she does anywhere in the thread, let me use your amazing rhetoric of "QQ you're sidestepping".




Ah, back to your pathetic "yer a troll routine". Instead of being pathetic, why don't you take a hike back to post #244 and finally point out which part of it is "trolling" or was factually incorrect. Specifically. With quotes. And sources proving me wrong.




You mean when Forsaken rebels betrayed the Horde and Forsaken alike, allied with the Burning Legion, kicked the Forsaken out of the city and, funnily enough, it was Jaina who went to Orgrimmar to learn it? And then passed that information to Varian, who then ignored it, tried to capture Lordaeron for the Alliance and attacked the Horde leaders, because Orcs (not Forsaken) were nothing but "green aberrations" to him at the time? You keep repeating BUT TEH TIMELINE but you have zero clue about timeline or anything else.

Not side stepping. Your rants are going no where. And are not on subject anymore. So not going into your rants is my choice . I can go on and on. So can you i think. Again you are ( that shall not be named), because some steps out of a argument and you choose to keep it going.....
( Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you. ) :P


I can go on and on about the forsaken(rebels) attack. But they where a part of the hord. Yes they left, but does that make it okay???? And i set nothing about varians response ( witch i agree with you, was way overboard). Again you fantasies things i said that i did not. And last post did not speak about timeline??? so you mad bro :P:P:P

[Mehrunes]

Not side stepping. Your rants are going no where. And are not on subject anymore. So not going into your rants is my choice . I can go on and on. So can you i think. Again you are ( that shall not be named), because some steps out of a argument and you choose to keep it going.....
( Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you. ) :P

Your definition of trolling gets more and more laughable the longer you continue your shit show. And I haven't forced you to respond at all. I just responded to you, because that's my prerogative as a user of this forum. Does not mean I awaited your response. Just the opposite, you not responding means you'll stop polluting the lore forum. Also, not on subject anymore? Riveting tale, because I responded to points contained in your post without mentioning any new ones. So either you were not on subject in the first place or you still are full of shit.

I can go on and on about the forsaken(rebels) attack. But they where a part of the hord. Yes they left, but does that make it okay????

If they left that makes them not Horde anymore. That's what leaving does.

And i set nothing about varians response ( witch i agree with you, was way overboard).

You only raised Wrathgate as a counterargument to his actions in there

Again you fantasies things i said that i did not.

Because the concept of context is lost on you, which we've established 5 posts ago.

And last post did not speak about timeline???

Look at all the times I said so. Whole zero of them.

[Deleted]

I guess you missed the bombing of Theramore and the purge of Dalaran

Which have been removed from the game due to being a pre-expansion event or a legendary questline scenario? It's easy to miss for a casual player. Besides, how much do Horde players interact with Jaina to know this? Pretty much zero.

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so much for lok'tar ogar lol

It doesn't contradict anything if Orcs are completely ignored this expansion because of "hur dur Orc fatigue" complaints.

[Zulkhan]

Just to clarify, you mean that it beats Sylvanas' threads in funniness, right?

Yeah. I mean, Sylvanas' threads are fun but get a bit boring after a while. Then I look at this or think about the great "Why do people hate Jaina?" thread and I realize who's the real winner in this contest.

If we are talking about appels, and i say i like that fruit and that fruit etc. But you still can beat that taste of it. It revers to the original subject...appels, aka proudmoore. For example: do you like appels, i do. And then you start a rant about bricks. So you are either a ***** or someone who can not read simple questions/remarks or both.

Since I can't think about an adequate response to this I'll just scream CIRCLEJERK. It always works after all. Or at least that's what I learned here.

[Mehrunes]

Which have been removed from the game due to being a pre-expansion event or a legendary questline scenario? It's easy to miss for a casual player. Besides, how much do Horde players interact with Jaina to know this? Pretty much zero.

Bombing of Theramore was level 90 scenario throughout the entire MoP and is still accessible via an NPC in Seat of Knowledge in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. The pre-expansion event was just early access via scaled down level 85 version. And Purge of Dalaran is also still in the game. It is part of 5.1 Krasarang faction war questlines you unlock via gaining rep with the 5.1 factions through dailies.

[KyrtF]

someone hasnt seen the horde cinematic

I have...and this is one of the times when the Horde is unfortunately seen in a bad light.

A one off chance to stop a Legion invasion before it secured a strong foothold?
Had everyone died to shut he portals, it would have been worth it. Instead...Vol'jin died and the Horde ran. And as a result, the Alliance lost their leader.

Not the Hordes finest hour...why couldn't the Alliance have been the ones to crack? It's fun to be the bad guys, and we get the coolest lines, but sometimes you just need a shining moment of glory.

Yes - it's story. The Legion had to win this one. But I didn't like retreating that way. Sylvanas acted to save the Horde....but doing so meant story for the Legion. So obviously not the right choice to make. Especially for a group that were likely expecting this to be a suicide mission.

I can see why the retreat was ordered...but it was still the wrong thing to do.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I have...and this is one of the times when the Horde is unfortunately seen in a bad light.

A one off chance to stop a Legion invasion before it secured a strong foothold?
Had everyone died to shut he portals, it would have been worth it. Instead...Vol'jin died and the Horde ran. And as a result, the Alliance lost their leader.

Not the Hordes finest hour...why couldn't the Alliance have been the ones to crack? It's fun to be the bad guys, and we get the coolest lines, but sometimes you just need a shining moment of glory.

Yes - it's story. The Legion had to win this one. But I didn't like retreating that way. Sylvanas acted to save the Horde....but doing so meant story for the Legion. So obviously not the right choice to make. Especially for a group that were likely expecting this to be a suicide mission.

I can see why the retreat was ordered...but it was still the wrong thing to do.

You think the factions would have won if the horde stayed?

Everyone would have died and nothing would have changed

[Tripzzz]

If she doesn't know what her troops were doing during the Cataclysm she's the worst leader in Warcraft history.

The same can be said of Sylvanas and Stillwater. Isn't that her excuse? Both Jaina and Slyvanas are whiny emo cunts.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The same can be said of Sylvanas and Stillwater. Isn't that her excuse? Both Jaina and Slyvanas are whiny emo cunts.

Stillwater was killing or kidnapping forsaken so word coudlnt get out., Jaina just doesn't understand that Neutral doesnt mean what she thinks it means